Would you really define this as "vulgar"?

[Pet Terry]

The cunning twist in the end of the game is actually that the protagonist takes off her shirt and two footballs fall on the ground.

[big brother]

Is this irony unintentional?

- An attractive woman who hasn't seen a mirror
- A chauvinist society that lives on "Seahorse" Island. Male seahorses (seastallions?) get pregnant and carry the babies.

Basically you're proposing a Milla Jovovich in 5th Element set on a island?

It would be more pointed if the story was set on a Polynesian island, where the men like their women big. The main character, instead of being unbelievably naive (to the point of not having a standard of beauty) could simply have a different standard of beauty than the males on the island. Let's say she's a little heavy, yet she considers the anoxeric coke-addicts in Vogue to be an ideal. She's used to being overlooked by the opposite sex, yet on this island she garners attention. At first maybe she thinks the men are mocking her, and the situation could be equally mysterious to the player. Maybe near the end she realizes that the male islanders desire her more than any of the slender females that also live there. I think this would be a far more interesting twist. It would also explain why she doesn't use her charms to her advantage in the beginning of the story.

I can't imagine a female character who is extremely intelligent, yet unable to understand others' preferences (and exploit them). This character sounds too much like an artificial construct to be human, and I doubt the player will be able to relate to her.

[Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens]

...Except that Milla Jovovich fits better with the anorexic coke-addict category you mentioned.

[Mordalles]

...Except that Milla Jovovich fits better with the anorexic coke-addict category you mentioned.

milla anorexic? 

[LimpingFish]

This character sounds too much like an artificial construct to be human

Christ, really? Man, it's doomed to stand out against all those other AGS games that are rich with fully-rounded and diverse characters, whose many layers of emotional depth continue to teach us how futile human existence really is.

*cough*

Its hard to reach a conclusive common ground when debating issues such as those raised in this thread. I don't think its as simple as "I'm against this" vs "I'm not against this".

But people have made clear where they stand.

I don't like the insinuations people have made that those who have come out in support of the image lack the ability to find fault in it, on moral grounds or otherwise.

Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand.

Therefore let me just say this:

Women are objectified.
Is it wrong? Sure.
Does it bother me? Not really.
Should I feel bad that it doesn't? Like hell.
Does it make me a bad person? Don't make me laugh.

Nobody's opinion holds more validity than the next man's.

Those who say "It's wrong, and if you don't see it then there's something wrong with you." get right up my nose.

Thank god for free speech, for it allows me to say this:

F*ck you...and the horse you rode in on.


EDIT: Yes I see the irony in self-censoring the word "F*ck". Very good. Thank you.

[big brother]

Christ, really? Man, it's doomed to stand out against all those other AGS games that are rich with fully-rounded and diverse characters, whose many layers of emotional depth continue to teach us how futile human existence really is.

It's not about a character having the same emotional depth as a human, it's about a character being believable in the narrative.

Nobody's opinion holds more validity than the next man's.

Some opinions are more useful. All you seem to be doing is rehashing the same old "everyone's stupid for making this an issue/Objectification doesn't bother me". I think we get where you stand.

Just because I don't care

If you don't care, you should shut the fuck up.

If you do decide to keep posting here, you obviously care.

[lo_res_man]

Nobody's opinion holds more validity than the next man's.

Those who say "It's wrong, and if you don't see it then there's something wrong with you." get right up my nose.

Thank god for free speech, for it allows me to say this:

F*ck you...and the horse you rode in on.

ok... lets backtrack a bit, yeah no ones opinion holds any more validity then anyone else’s. but that includes you buster. what are you getting so heated up about? we, are, discussing, a PICTURE of a almost comically well provided, woman. its not real, its just a picture. so what gets the burr up your butt? You seem to be getting awful steamed, even more so then the exact other side of your argument, which is in the minority. ok, you have the right to get pissed off, but why? It seems as if you get an almost moral outrage at some peoples moral outrage. what’s the big deal its just a picture. nothing to act like a raging furbie about. ok, calm down deep breaths, count to ten. now think back, was that post the most mature way of saying you disagree with someone? step back and think about it.

[Pesty]

...Except that Milla Jovovich fits better with the anorexic coke-addict category you mentioned.

milla anorexic?Ã, 

I bet you consider her plump, right?

[biothlebop]

I believe we need a summary of the opinions presented in this thread if people actually care of this matter as an debate  rather than a vendetta where people change their opinions constantly to shoot others' comments down. It must be a very interesting topic since it beat Muhammed, but I have trouble following the train of thought here. As it is now, it seems that people contradict themselves constantly and we are running in circles, repeating arguments and yelling fuck yous.

[LimpingFish]

If you don't care, you should shut the fuck up.

If you do decide to keep posting here, you obviously care.

I care because assholes like you keep faning the flames. Your apparent need to explain the reasons why we should see the wrong in this pisses me off.

Who are you to dictate what constitutes character?

Make YOUR games the YOU want to make them. Give YOUR characters what YOU decide they need.

Don't be so quick to apply YOUR beliefs, moral or otherwise, to somebody elses work. Its pointless and futile.

Do I tell you how something should be?

Believable in narrative? Are you writing this story? Its up to the makers to try and make it believable. Maybe they will, maybe they won't. I'll wait until its finished to judge.

was that post the most mature way of saying you disagree with someone? step back and think about it.

Yes, let me step back a minute...Nope, makes no difference. Thank you for pointing it out and trying to correct me in the proper way to articulate my feelings, though. Much appreciated.

[lo_res_man]

Zounds! LimpingFish, LimpingFish, you obviously  feel quite strongly about what you say. I agree, there are people who are fanning the flames of this now rather hateful thread, but you are one of them. You seem to be jumping to the defense of people who didn't ask for it. Unless you are one of the authors of this game, then my apologies. You are of course allowed your 2 cents worth, and more. But why so angry?

[biothlebop]

Because the thread is nothing more than personal attacks. If it was meant to make sense, the debate could have been orchestrated in an controlled fashion, like panel debates and closed long ago for people to make their own conclusions or at least been divided/restructured so it would not sidetrack everywhere. That said, it's still fun to read.

[MrColossal]

This thread is nothing more than personal attacks? What? Are you a stupid moron?

Eric

While I may be making a joke, I'm serious in asking what you mean by this being nothing more than personal attacks

[modgeulator]

I mean, you're not going to have an unattractive woman as your main character...

So when we come to make a main character for our game. Are we going to go out of our way to make an unattractive woman with a flat chest, just to appease (admit it) a minority of people who may find it offensive?

OK, I take it back, I apologise. I had missed those two quotes before. I don't know if that was intended as a joke, I'll admit it doesn't really sound that way. Even as a joke it's obviously intended to piss people off and it explains a lot of the anger.
I don't think they need to apologise for or even defend the character drawings, but an explanation of what that was all about might be good.

[biothlebop]

That was phrased a little harsh, I'm sure there are lots of good points in here. And yes, I am a stupid moron for posting in this thread.

[LimpingFish]

You seem to be jumping to the defense of people who didn't ask for it.

They also didn't ask how to tell a story, or how to depict a character, but people still told them. Arrogance. Thats why I'm angry.

They asked "Do you find this vulgar?". I, among others, answered.

And here we are.

[MrColossal]

Thus is the nature of an internet chat forum!

[LimpingFish]

The Nature Of Internet Chat Forums!?! Don't get me started...

[lo_res_man]

They also didn't ask how to tell a story, or how to depict a character, but people still told them. Arrogance. Thats why I'm angry.

And here we are.

Yes and "here we are" but why, why is it arrogance to offer your opinion on something? Ã, Lets ask the authors, hey guys (or gals, its possible) did you you mean to be that literal? what is your opinion on the opinions offered?

[LimpingFish]

I think they gave it, but it I'm to lazy to scroll back through the tread.