Would you really define this as "vulgar"?

[CaptainBinky]

If you guys can't deal with discussion on the game, then don't ask us to discuss it!

Sorry, but I don't recall asking for opinions on the game or story - only if the image constituted vulgarity.

So relax, don't attack big brother for having an opinion, and don't construe this discussion as either condemnation OR support for your game.

I don't have a problem with him having opinions, or even expressing them. I do have a problem with the manner and tone in which they were expressed.

[lemmy101]

I don't see how big brother is coming off high and mighty.

Big Brother comes across high and mighty in every single one of his posts, and this opinion LONG preceeds him making any comments directed at us. We were (at least I was) eagerly awaiting the inevitable time when that happened so we could tell him what we thought. Our friends who have browsed this forum since our game was announced, have even commented on the same thing with no prompting from us. He does unsolicited paintovers of people's work in the game in production thread, believes himself to be better than everyone in this forum. The name of their "studio" implies that they put more effort in than anyone else, and that they are the best.

I personally think it's sickening that in a free community, where people who may not have art skills, but love adventure games, put a lot of work into making a game regardless. Then this guy, who is, admittedly quite good, comes along and says "I'm better than you and I've put more effort in than you." How dare he???

Anyone who doesn't see that is willfully disregarding it.

I'm personally amazed that he isn't insanely unpopular in this forum. And in that same forum people can get so vocal about a pair of damn boobs. To be honest the fact that he struts around unopposed is half the reaosn I've got so annoyed about this thread.

So there, I've crossed that line into flaming, but I don't care. As you say, the people getting up in arms are the minority here. A minority I no longer care what they think.

Later! I'm not posting in this thread (or any other thread in this forum) again.

[Helm]

If you guys can't deal with discussion on the game, then don't ask us to discuss it!

Sorry, but I don't recall asking for opinions on the game or story - only if the image constituted vulgarity.

I'm sorry, you won't find people doing 'yes/no' type of answers on such topics in this forum. it's a very loaded question, it's not 'do you like my hair?' We like to discuss, much more when the topic is about sexuality, religion, politics, generally things everybody has strong (and arbiterate! whee!) opinions about. Anything posted in this thread is really fair game for discussion and critique. This is good, not bad, in my opinion. But if it doesn't suit you, I can only chalk this one up to not knowing what would happen. Now you know. This isn't a strictly moderated forum for off-topicness and the like, nor is content controlled according to what the thread starter desires.

I don't have a problem with him having opinions, or even expressing them. I do have a problem with the manner and tone in which they were expressed.

Sure, be my guest to discuss this, just as long as you're aware how silly ad hominems look.

Big Brother comes across high and mighty in every single one of his posts, and this opinion LONG preceeds him making any comments directed at us. We were (at least I was) eagerly awaiting the inevitable time when that happened so we could tell him what we thought. Our friends who have browsed this forum since our game was announced, have even commented on the same thing with no prompting from us. He does unsolicited paintovers of people's work in the game in production thread, believes himself to be better than everyone in this forum. The name of their studio implies that they put more effort in than anyone else, and that they are the best.

I won't play big brother's advocate for long. I do know he comes off high and mighty in some cases, I've seen it happen myself, I just didn't think this was one of these cases. I find your eager anticipation for a time where you could attack ridiculous and very mean-spirited. The name-of-studio-is-herculean thing impresses me with the inventiveness of the approach of attack. What can I say, you seem to have given this one a lot of thought.

I'm personally amazed that he isn't insanely unpopular in this forum. And in that same forum people can get so vocal about a pair of damn boobs. To be honest the fact that he struts around unopposed is half the reaosn I've got so annoyed about this thread.

Deal with it. Big bother's not my favourite person, nor do I care for Apprentice and Apprentice II very much, but the lack of attacking him, annoying you just paints a very warped picture. I don't see the relation, I just see a beef between you and big brother.

Good job on drama queening your exit from this forum.

[CaptainBinky]

I'm sorry, you won't find people doing 'yes/no' type of answers on such topics in this forum. it's a very loaded question, it's not 'do you like my hair?' We like to discuss, much more when the topic is about sexuality, religion, politics, generally things everybody has strong (and arbiterate! whee!) opinions about. Anything posted in this thread is really fair game for discussion and critique.

Granted things go off topic, and I don't have a problem with discussing the general objectification of women, sexism in games generally etc. The problem was the assumptions about us, or our poor choices of character, or holes in our story. We feel that it makes sense. If people want to cast judgement on whether or not that is the case, then please at least wait until it is finished and you can judge it fairly. To call the character (not you specifically) a poor style choice is unfair given the limited information we had provided. When these kinds of comments are repeated and repeated and repeated, it gets a little annoying. I'm up for a discussion on the use of girls in games and whether it's good, bad, sexist, whatever. But lets not use OUR game as a platform to do that since it isn't finished and all the pertinent information is yet to be revealed. Let's use a finished game instead, and the discussion will have more merits.

[Las Naranjas]

[MrColossal]

Also:

I think you confused me and Helm, Binky... A few posts back you wrote a bunch of stuff "@mrcolossal" and it seemed to be directed at helm? Just wanted to say I don't want to be confused with yet another person in this thread.

Herculean Effort: You don't like people making value judgements based off of your use of large breasts and yet you can make them based off of a name two people chose for their game company?

Gosh, I'm calling my company Colossal Industries, does that mean I think my company is bigger and better than all the others or could it be... Just in fact...  A name?

You want boobs in the game, you put boobs in the game. As far as I remember I never said anything bad about you as people because there is a HUGE disconnect between liking boobs and being a stupid person, but I wish you stopped defending the game waaay back when since, as has been said by many people "It's your game."

People on these forums who say "You can't discuss this related topic in this thread because the starter never mentioned it" have a lot to learn about the AGS forums.

But I'll say it again, it's your game, make it and have a great time.

Eric

[CaptainBinky]

I think you confused me and Helm, Binky... A few posts back you wrote a bunch of stuff "@mrcolossal" and it seemed to be directed at helm? Just wanted to say I don't want to be confused with yet another person in this thread.

My appologies. Things have got a bit confusing on this thread!

Herculean Effort: You don't like people making value judgements based off of your use of large breasts and yet you can make them based off of a name two people chose for their game company?

Is this targetted at me or Lemmy (more confusion)? I didn't bring the name into it. The problem I had was things like this...

Throwing in a skimpy outfit and tits (isn't nurse on the same level as cowgirl and cheerleader?) detracts from the player's suspension of disbelief.

and

It would be more pointed if the story was set on a Polynesian island, where the men like their women big. The main character, instead of being unbelievably naive (to the point of not having a standard of beauty) could simply have a different standard of beauty than the males on the island. Let's say she's a little heavy, yet she considers the anoxeric coke-addicts in Vogue to be an ideal. She's used to being overlooked by the opposite sex, yet on this island she garners attention. At first maybe she thinks the men are mocking her, and the situation could be equally mysterious to the player. Maybe near the end she realizes that the male islanders desire her more than any of the slender females that also live there. I think this would be a far more interesting twist. It would also explain why she doesn't use her charms to her advantage in the beginning of the story.

I can't imagine a female character who is extremely intelligent, yet unable to understand others' preferences (and exploit them). This character sounds too much like an artificial construct to be human, and I doubt the player will be able to relate to her.

Because at the end of the day, it's our story and you'll have to take our word that it does work and fit. I don't particularly appreciate a verbal "paintover" of our story. I mean "a far more interesting twist"? Far more interesting that what? We haven't said anything about our "twist", so on what grounds can you say one is better than the other? Worded differently as an offshoot story, or "hey, wouldn't this be a cool premise for a game?" then fine. It probably would make a pretty good premise for an adventure. But you can't say that one is better than the other.

The only reason we kept defending our game, is because it kept getting brought into the discussion (as above). There seem to be two sets of people having two different discussions here. One of those discussions, I'm completely cool with.

But I'll say it again, it's your game, make it and have a great time.

Thanks! We will...

EDIT: Oh and by the way, I didn't mean "you" in a literally YOU sense. This is as confusing enough as it is!

EDIT AGAIN: I don't think the problem is with the name "Herculean Effort" as much as the strapline "It's not easy being the best". In my experience the best and most talented people tend to be the one's who'd never, EVER, claim it. So maybe it's ironic..?

[Nikolas]

Lemmy and Binky: I have stayed long enough away from this thread.

It's time I say a few things...

I suspect that after 340 posts it must've been mentioned somewhere but in case it hasn't: You do know that you brought this on yourselves, right? I mean the nurse is lovely and I have no problem with her outfit, the fact that she's a nurse or anything like big boobs. But there would be people that have problems. And you knew that. And still you posted.

You are sure to make the game the way you want to, no question about that! And that's only reasonable and fair. If there is anything in thee 340 posts that mae you change ideas, even better...

Do enjoy the game and do let us know when released. There are a lot of people that want to play it. And I honestly believe you when you say that there is a story underneath that boobs. Yes, I do and I will play it.

Lemmy: You know after saying that you will not repost in these forums again, I almost felt like saying something like :"Fuck off you bastard. What right do you have coming here and judging 3000 people (including me) just because BB spoke his mind?" But I didn't. And won't!. You do understand that you are overeacting hopefully... BB can be annoying and sometimes arrogant, but hey, why not? I can be awfull when mentioning certain things (kids, music blah blah...), Helm can be annoying al the time, esper can be atheist (rather antichristian), well BB can be arrogant (along with me probably and other memebers). You get to be the ones that drew the most beautifull sprite for ages now. Live with, enjoy it and hang around!

[skyfire2]

binky, don't listen to the others. it's your game and you have the right to put whatever you want into it.

[The Inquisitive Stranger]

See this is the problem, I don't think you even understand what objectification means. Or at least should mean in a society where people don't overreact over every little thing that might rub them up the wrong way, at least. We like boobs. So shoot us! Does liking boobs automatically make you a chauvanistic pig? Of course not, that's complete idiocy. Binky and myself were pleased that the art was evidently sound enough for people to make comments about her being "hot" and "having nice boobs". After all a blocky scribbly mess would not have attracted that attention, so we saw it as a compliment to Binky's art.

I never accused anyone of being chauvinistic. (Adolescent, perhaps, but not chauvinistic.) What I have major problems with is the expectation that women in games and other media should be physically attractive, and that the same expectation does not exist (at least not to the same extent) for men.

Yes, I know that your character is strong and intelligent. Yes, I know she's attractive because it's part of the story. However, you did make your share of "we don't want an unattractive woman as our main character" comments and that part of the reason you designed her the way you did because you yourselves want to enjoy the way she looks. It doesn't matter whether you leer at large-breasted women or treat them like goddesses; the fact remains that society finds an attractive (by arbitrary standards) woman to be of higher worth than an unattractive one, and that in the creation of your character, you appear to perpetuate such thinking.

And if Squinky did get that seriously offended by our jokey comments on the FE thread that she went to the trouble of blogging about it, then I sincerely pity her. How she gets through life without being offended on a minute by minute basis is beyond me.

It was honestly no trouble at all. My comments were probably just as jokey as yours were (though, as with all jokes, they're not completely based on fiction). Sometimes, I think you people are more offended than I am. Sheesh!

If it makes you feel better to think that I'm some sort of zealot who's offended by everything, though, then by all means, go ahead.

EDIT: By the way, I was just wondering, did you come up with the story before you came up with the character, or was it the other way around?

[CaptainBinky]

EDIT: By the way, I was just wondering, did you come up with the story before you came up with the character, or was it the other way around?

Would you honestly believe me if I told you? 

[lo_res_man]

CAN"T WE ALL JUST GET ALONG!?
***
oh...wait I said the before, in some terrible topic it was a a..Nightmare! Ã, :
seriously, this game should be fun, but said makers of game, don't be so glum, we made a (lets scroll down down and...) !17! page topic all about your work. granted some of us have come across as high and mighty quite a few got angry, but guys, INMHO the topic is both too strict and the question too vague. this opened a whole can o' worms and you got a whole bunch of posts. its not the end of the world that not everybody liked your pic.Believe me I support you guys 1000% but believe me, this Ã, hardley went Ã, off topic. Ã, I once asked for help finding private eyey jazz and film noir music. and I got that, plus a 4 page heated discussion wether film noir was rasist or not. So its not the end of the world. make your game and hope to see it.

[CaptainBinky]

its not the end of the world that not everybody liked your pic.Believe me I support you guys 1000% but believe me, this Ã, hardley went Ã, off topic. Ã, I once asked for help finding private eyey jazz and film noir music. and I got that, plus a 4 page heated discussion wether film noir was rasist or not. So its not the end of the world. make your game and hope to see it.

I guess at the end of the day, we're at fault because we haven't been registered to this site for long and just kind of registered and posted our game within about a week of each other. Perhaps if we'd come along sooner, gone to the newbie thread and said hello, got ourselves into a few heated discussions about random topics and THEN posted our game, we might have handled things a bit better. So a belated "Hello! I'm CaptainBinky!" to you all, sorry for the rants, and no offense taken (except from Big Brother).

(that last bit was a joke)

(...or was it?)

(no, it was)

?

[Haddas]

Milla anorexic? 

No. She's a fatty.

EDIT: To clarify, I'm joking.

[Nikolas]

No. She's a fatty.

WOW!

Anyway I prefer the nurse over Milla! At least she won't kill me because while mistaken me for a zombie of some kind

[Andail]

At least I like that we have gone from
"big breasts mean nothing special, they're just big and nice and we like it that way and we're not gonna change them and they can do no harm"
- along with a lot of kids who went "yay, go for it, we like big boobs"

to
"yeah we understand the impact and the symbolic meaning of stereotypes and objectification, but we have a ulterior motive and a point of satire".

Just make sure that the satire comes across in the end, lest it will not be a satire. Only if somebody understand satire can it be called satire.

Also I agree with TIS that the extreme fascination for unnaturally over-sized (and poorly covered) boobs is a bit adolescent. Just for the record.
Anyhow, the game seems more promising with some inside info. Good luck with it.

[Gregjazz]

He does unsolicited paintovers of people's work in the game in production thread

Wait, what? Are you talking about this:

http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/yabb/index.php?topic=23113.20

You make it sound like this is a regular habit of his. I think some people should be grateful that he takes the time to try to help people with paintovers (personally I like it whenever he does a paintover of something).

, believes himself to be better than everyone in this forum.

I guess I never got that memo.

The name of their "studio" implies that they put more effort in than anyone else, and that they are the best.

Geez, it's just a name and a motto.

In fact consider Precision Sound (http://www.precisionsound.com), a well-known company. On the main page of their website it says "Take a quick tour of our site and discover why Precision Sound is your "ONE STOP" for all things multimedia." Pretty "arrogant", huh? This is only one example of many...

I personally think it's sickening that in a free community, where people who may not have art skills, but love adventure games, put a lot of work into making a game regardless. Then this guy, who is, admittedly quite good, comes along and says "I'm better than you and I've put more effort in than you." How dare he???

Tell me when he ever said "I'm better than you." When people post things in the CL, they are essentially asking for advice from others (usually from people with more experience, etc.). If he truly thought he was better than everyone else, why would he bother to stop and give helpful advice to others, including creating time-consuming paintovers?

I'm personally amazed that he isn't insanely unpopular in this forum.

Dude, Ian rocks. Get over it.

And in that same forum people can get so vocal about a pair of damn boobs. To be honest the fact that he struts around unopposed is half the reaosn I've got so annoyed about this thread.

You're obviously not understanding the point of this thread. Let me make you a little summary: it's not that it's vulgar, but that it's inappropriate to the context of the game.

So there, I've crossed that line into flaming, but I don't care. As you say, the people getting up in arms are the minority here. A minority I no longer care what they think.

Later! I'm not posting in this thread (or any other thread in this forum) again.

I'm a little confused as to why you're the one getting all up in arms. You're critiquing other people's opinions. So who's doing the unsolicited critique?

[lo_res_man]

oh no...here we go again...

[Pesty]

Milla anorexic?Ã, 

No. She's a fatty.

EDIT: To clarify, I'm joking.

I already made that joke. Shut your face.

[The Inquisitive Stranger]

So a belated "Hello! I'm CaptainBinky!" to you all, sorry for the rants, and no offense taken (except from Big Brother).

Hello, CaptainBinky! (Love the name, by the way.) I'm The Inquisitive Stranger! I used to be Squinky, but then someone else became Squinky and suddenly I didn't feel so unique anymore.

For the record, I don't hate you, nor am I offended by you personally. It's society as a whole that offends me.