Saddam Captured?

[YOke]

My thoughts regarding Saddams capture

The question now is where Saddam should be put to trial. Should it be an international trial or not. How would justice best be served. My money is on a trial in Iraq, so that the people of Iraq can deal with this themselves.
As for the terrorists/"armed people that disagree with USA" half of them will propably give up now, while the other half will be twice as pissed.
I am also a bit surprised how so many people just say: "Oh, they did a DNA-test. It's him!" For now we only have the word of an administration that has admitted before to "pass on wrongful information"/lie to it's own people.
Just want to remind everyone that we live in a time where wars are fought in the media more than on the battlefield. This puts the people of all countries in the crossfire. Who cares if the information is false, as long as it makes people behave the way they should? Much is required from us every day to decode information, connect the dots and confirm our sources. When they say they have evidence, I say: "Show it!"
I'll take the word of a friend, but not the word of ANY government in the world today.

[WanderLady]

Saddam was only the target of the war because he had these supposed weapons on mass destruction, which were all false claims.

Without them, he was just a dictator with a dream, much like the ones in Cuba or North Korea. Of course, they don't have oil to use for kickbacks to Bush's buddies, so there's no way taxpayers' money will be spent on going to war with them.

Whether this is true or not, I don't know, but as for who cares...

Meaning, who cares.

...Surely, oppressed Iraqis who were under this dictator care. Soldiers, who may be able to come home now, must care. Their families, who've waited in fear, care that this has happened. There are many to whom this is very relevant.

[OneThinkingGal and ._.]

That's really what Bush is counting on, to turn this into a 'humanitarian feel-good mission'. And I think he will succeed. If that's what this is about, why Iraq and why not Cuba?

How much better off are the iraqis? All the shia-sunni stuff will continue, there will still be killings, only now there won't be anyone specific to blame. Its the cultural and religious sitation of the region, one which the US can do nothing about, except maybe make it worse.

[Harvester]

One (terrorist) down, three (Bin Laden, Bush & Blair) to go.

[Nacho]

And Aznar!  

[Barcik]

Now the question is, do American's leave. That's it. Threat of Saddam retaking power is completely over. Regime crushed. No more excuses.

This is not that simple. If the Americans leave Iraq as it is (what I am against, for more reasons than the one stated later), civil war will break out. Not only is it bad, Bush will have it on his ass, and he knows it. However, staying in the current position isn't good as well. So it's a deadlock, at the moment.

One (terrorist) down, three (Bin Laden, Bush & Blair) to go

And Chirac & Schröder.

[Darth Mandarb]

Holy shit!!!

They caught Saddam??

I give it 2 days (tops) before the media somehow spins this into a bad thing.

And of course the U.S. isn't going to simply leave Iraq.  It's going to be admitted to the Union.  They're going to change the name of it to Bushland.

Yay capitilism!!

])]v[

[evenwolf]

we'll do what we always do- the americans will leave someone with our interests in our place, so that we look justified and all that.     But whoever we put in power will exploit that power and we will have to come back and fight them years from now.

[makri]

The claimed dna tests can be trusted just as much as one would trust iraqi information minister. You all saw the pictures. They captured Santa.


There will be no Christmas this year.

[Pumaman]

Now this is all very good and well, but two things:

1) if Saddam has spent the last few months hiding in a hole in the ground without so much as a mobile phone, he has hardly been commanding the insurgency against the coalition troops; therefore, his arrest is unlikely to have an impact on the attacks, which are apparently largely committed by terrorists from neighbouring countries who have come into Iraq to destabilise it
2) where are the WMD's?

Also, how on earth did they do this DNA test? Where would the US troops have got a sample of Saddam's DNA from previously to test it against?

[Privateer Puddin']

They were taken in the early 80s (1981, i think)

[Privateer Puddin']

Hmmm..

[Nacho]

Now this is all very good and well, but two things:

2) where are the WMD's?

Also, how on earth did they do this DNA test? Where would the US troops have got a sample of Saddam's DNA from previously to test it against?

Let´s hope that Saddam himself reveals where the WMD´s are, if they exist, so, we can still have a "little" confidence in the CIA...

And about the DNA... I asked that to myself before, and I think that they must have a lot of DNA of him, razors in their palaces, during the official visits... anyway, they have the bodies of their two sons, so, a reliable DNA test can be made.

EDIT: which makes me feel strange... Can many agencies be recollecting people´s dna in secrecy? brrrr...  

[DGMacphee]

Hmmm..

YOU BEAT ME TO IT YOU BITCH!!!

[Raggit]

That rat has grown a longer beard since we saw him last.

[Matt Brown]

saddam says there were no WMD.
In fact...every top scientist there said there was no wmd

hmm. I guess I really cant take what the rat has to say seriously...but still

[Bob The Hun]

I imagine that the families of the almost one million people that Saddam is estimated to have mass-murdered are pretty happy about his capture.

[TheYak]

I'm hoping that this is a good thing for the Iraqi people.  However, after the media's misleading reporting on 9/11, I'm not willing to take the media's word for it that all of the Iraqi people are thrilled about this.  

As mentioned long ago in the war thread, I was against the war but since they went ahead and did it, at least it yielded something semi-tangible.  As to the DNA test, I've heard they had previous DNA-samples collected from his nosehair trimmer.  

The WMD question: recently there was a report that a top Iraqi army general had stated that they had WMD's hidden on their front lines.  These were small biological/chemical warheads meant to be fired as an RPG.  They were supposedly under orders not to use them until specifically ordered to by Saddam.  As to the validity of this report . . . I'll take that with a grain of salt.  

Someone asked what sort of trial he was due.  The news reports state that he is to be trial as a war-criminal in Iraqi courts for crimes against the Iraqi people, with the whole event overseen by UN advisors.  How large a role the UN-reps are going to play in that, there's no telling yet.

I think Yoke's predicition is accurate.  We'll have pissed off half of the terrorists and the other half won't give a shit.  Hopefully, this doesn't spawn more large-scale terrorism in the US.  I have no doubt that there will at least be attempts soon.

[Timosity]

Yes, it's pretty obvious that the socalled search for WD40 was really just an excuse to go in and get Saddam, which should have happened in 91.

whether the WD40 exist or not in Iraq has really been irrelevent in what's been happening. It's good that they have captured the Evil Dictator, but as others have said, It's just one man (although they have already captured some of his mates) and there are pleanty of other people who are just as evil.

We don't even hear about what's happening in Afghanistan, which is where it all began after 11/9 before it got sidetracked and surprise surprise somehow ended up in Iraq.

Bush has achieved all he wanted all along now, so hopefully he can just get fucked, it was just personal family business.

Nothing much has really changed, he was doing nothing in a hole, now he is out of a hole.

THe question is what will happen now. Where will he be tried? What will be his punishment?

There's no reason he should be taken to the US, why would that even be a consideration, what has it got to do with the US justice system. He was in Iraq, captured in Iraq so it seems logical to be tried there. by who I don't know.

The problem is it is likely he will be executed, which is too good for him, he deserves to be interrogated and psychologically tortured for the rest of his life. That would be much worse than death.

As for the Iraqi people, we will see much more footage of the people against Saddam, where I'm sure there is still pleanty of support for him.
It will still be a long time before they can repair the country, physically and psychologically, and I'm sure some children that have lived through this will become the next generation of pissed off leaders with similar attitudes and start this cycle over again.

So only time will tell whether what has happened is a good or bad thing (and by time I don't mean short term, ie atleast 30-40 years and onward)


The events that have occurred in the last few years are exactly like a thread on these forums that goes completely off topic, just with fewer deaths. (well maybe just a few more)

[Barcik@School]

1) if Saddam has spent the last few months hiding in a hole in the ground without so much as a mobile phone, he has hardly been commanding the insurgency against the coalition troops; therefore, his arrest is unlikely to have an impact on the attacks, which are apparently largely committed by terrorists from neighbouring countries who have come into Iraq to destabilise it

The following analysis by DebkaFile provides a pretty good explanation:

A number of questions are raised by the incredibly bedraggled, tired and crushed condition of this once savage, dapper and pampered ruler who was discovered in a hole in the ground on Saturday, December 13:

1. The length and state of his hair indicated he had not seen a barber or even had a shampoo for several weeks.

2. The wild state of his beard indicated he had not shaved for the same period

3. The hole dug in the floor of a cellar in a farm compound near Tikrit was primitive indeed â€" 6ft across and 8ft across with minimal sanitary arrangements - a far cry from his opulent palaces.

4. Saddam looked beaten and hungry.

5. Detained trying to escape were two unidentified men. Left with him were two AK-47 assault guns and a pistol, none of which were used.

6. The hole had only one opening. It was not only camouflaged with mud and bricks â€" it was blocked. He could not have climbed out without someone on the outside removing the covering.

7. And most important, $750,000 in 100-dollar notes were found with him (a pittance for his captors who expected a $25m reward)â€" but no communications equipment of any kind, whether cell phone or even a carrier pigeon for contacting the outside world.

According to DEBKAfile analysts, these seven anomalies point to one conclusion: Saddam Hussein was not in hiding; he was a prisoner.

After his last audiotaped message was delivered and aired over al Arabiya TV on Sunday November 16, on the occasion of Ramadan, Saddam was seized, possibly with the connivance of his own men, and held in that hole in Adwar for three weeks or more, which would have accounted for his appearance and condition. Meanwhile, his captors bargained for the $25 m prize the Americans promised for information leading to his capture alive or dead. The negotiations were mediated by Jalal Talabani’s Kurdish PUK militia.

These circumstances would explain the ex-ruler’s docility â€" described by Lt.Gen. Ricardo Sanchez as “resignation” â€" in the face of his capture by US forces. He must have regarded them as his rescuers and would have greeted them with relief.

From Gen. Sanchez’s evasive answers to questions on the $25m bounty, it may be inferred that the Americans and Kurds took advantage of the negotiations with Saddam’s abductors to move in close and capture him on their own account, for three reasons:

A. His capture had become a matter of national pride for the Americans. No kudos would have been attached to his handover by a local gang of bounty-seekers or criminals. The country would have been swept anew with rumors that the big hero Saddam was again betrayed by the people he trusted, just as in the war.

B. It was vital to catch his kidnappers unawares so as to make sure Saddam was taken alive. They might well have killed him and demanded the prize for his body. But they made sure he had no means of taking his own life and may have kept him sedated.

C. During the weeks he is presumed to have been in captivity, guerrilla activity declined markedly â€" especially in the Sunni Triangle towns of Falluja, Ramadi and Balad - while surging outside this flashpoint region â€" in Mosul in the north and Najef, Nasseriya and Hilla in the south. It was important for the coalition to lay hands on him before the epicenter of the violence turned back towards Baghdad and the center of the Sunni Triangle.

As for the people who still doubt it's the real Saddam - it just shows how biased you are.