Support for FLAC? + Music.vox build process ignores WAV files + speechfile limit

SimSaw · Tue 13/07/2004 13:35:47

I've got a three problems: The first is that I can't use FLAC files as voice, music and sounds. Could FLAC support be added to the next AGS version?

The second problem is that AGS ignores all Musicx.wav files, so I can't use uncompressed music. Could this bug be fixed?

Third and last I want to say that 3000 speech file segments per speech.vox is a hard limitations if you want to do big talkie games like Simon the Sorcerer (which contained about 3500 file segments!!). Why isn't it possible to get unlimited files into the speech.vox?

strazer · Tue 13/07/2004 16:20:35

I'm a big fan of FLAC myself, but for games, I don't think the superior quality is worth the increase in file size (same for wave music). Why not use high quality OGG instead?
Other features are more important IMO.

Hollister Man · Tue 13/07/2004 18:38:39

I noticed that in one place in the manual it states that WAV music can be used, and another it is omitted. One way to get around it is to PlayAmbientSound. It can even be played over a MIDI music track, or another digital music format, I think.

Pumaman · Tue 13/07/2004 23:45:44

My first question is, what is FLAC? I've never heard of it, what advantages does it offer over OGG/MP3?

QuoteThe second problem is that AGS ignores all Musicx.wav files, so I can't use uncompressed music. Could this bug be fixed?

This is already on my to-do list and has in fact already been fixed in my latest build, so it will be in the next beta.
However, I'd recommend using OGG for music wherever possible, it saves loads of disk space.

QuoteThird and last I want to say that 3000 speech file segments per speech.vox is a hard limitations if you want to do big talkie games like Simon the Sorcerer (which contained about 3500 file segments!!). Why isn't it possible to get unlimited files into the speech.vox?

If you are nearing 3000 speech files in your game, let me know and I can probably increase the limit. It hasn't caused a problem for any talkie games so far, including KQ2VGA.

scotch · Wed 14/07/2004 00:06:18

FLAC is a free lossless audio format. It wouldn't hurt to add support for it, but I don't think many game players are bothered by lossy music... most would be perfectly happy with low bitrates like 96kbps considering the decrease in filesize.

SimSaw · Thu 22/07/2004 13:44:33

I thought most of the internet users have got quick internet conections and aren't still using a modem like me. And for the other part I noticed that some people used WAV in their small games. With FLAC each WAV file is about the half smaller than the original file. I don't want to use FLAC for the published version on the internet, but for myself to have best quality. Ogg is ALWAYS a loss of quality, even if you use highest quality settings.

OK, Chris, if you are ready to increase the number of speech files when I reach the limit then I won't be worried about this for some time. It's just that I already reached about 300 files and the game is still a small one.

Hollister Man · Thu 22/07/2004 15:40:32

I don't know the statistics, but I think bar far the fewer are using hish-speed connections yet. I get DSL at work, but I live too far from the base station. DSL signals, at least, can only travel about 1.8 miles before they're unreliable. So unless you live 1.8 miles from the phone company or a booster station, and you can't get cable, your choices are minimal.

WAV files are completely uncompressed, so the originals won't be any better or worse quality than FLAC. I don't know if anyone yet has made a talkie from the ground up, rather, converting it to a talkie afterwards. Am I right? As for me, I'd rather use MIDI music, dunno about speech yet.

SimSaw · Fri 06/08/2004 13:58:14

FLAC would be better as WAV because it's smaller. If you have a lot of WAV files and you want to build the vox files this will take more time as when using FLAC files since they are samller. And there's also a maximum limit for a WAV file. You are not able to play a speech file with 600 mb for example. With FLAC you could increase the length of a file, because it compresses the WAV file. So you've got more possiblities.

I for myself make a talkie game from ground up. I think it's a shame that so few people do talkie games. Hearing voice is more entertaining than reading only boring text. So a hint: If somebody wants his game to become more famous then make a speech pack. There are not much other competitors which would join them. (But that's another subject...)

I wonder why there speech segments in speech.vox aren't unlimited? What's the reason?

Adamski · Fri 06/08/2004 18:30:54

If you refuse to use compressed audio formats, you must be nuts.

Moox · Sun 08/08/2004 06:32:12

If the music is of better quality then the game, thats a big problem. No one uses wav for music, Wavs for sound effects. Whatever happened to the days where adventure games had internal audio, not even polyphonic. They even fit on floppies!
Its not quantity is quality, you can have a 272727 mb game but if its just another game then its not worth it.

Pumaman · Sun 08/08/2004 14:02:13

Yeah, I really don't think anybody should be using WAV in their completed game. The reason AGS still supports it is because using a WAV is a quick and easy way to test out sound effects, but you really shouldn't still have any in there by the time you're ready to distribute the game.

Pet Terry · Sun 08/08/2004 14:44:38

Almost all of my sound effects are .wavs o_O That's because if I use .ogg or .mp3 for sound effects, they get included into a speech.vox... right? Now, I have voice speech in my game and I'd like to distribute speech.vox as a separate download whenever the game is finished, but player won't have any sound effects in game if (s)he doesn't have speech.vox downloaded... right? So I'd suggest there was third .vox file, something like sounds.vox.

Or am I completely wrong here? I'm using .wavs for sound effects only because they take up only few kilobytes of space... Somebody correct me if I'm wrong.

Pumaman · Sun 08/08/2004 16:16:26

Only speech files get added to the speech.vox - sound effects are included in the exe.

Pet Terry · Sun 08/08/2004 19:30:56

Oh, heh. Then I'll convert all the .wav's to .ogg right away! Thanks for correcting me.

SimSaw · Tue 17/08/2004 13:49:49

I already told you: I want to use WAV or FLAC for myself. If I use Ogg then I loose quality. FLAC support should be added because FLAC files are far smaller than WAV files so the speech.vox file can be builded in far less time. I won't offer my games with wav files with my slow internet connection. I first need DSL or something like that, but I don't have the money, but for myself I need FLAC in the game.

Kweepa · Tue 17/08/2004 14:35:11

Umm...
Why not use ogg but keep the wavs in a separate directory? When you're *finished* you can make a "deluxe" edition for yourself using wavs.

Fuzzpilz · Tue 17/08/2004 15:33:54

There are two reasonable situations in which lossless storage of audio makes sense: One, if the sounds are going to be changed and reencoded (since errors tend to pile up). Two, many kinds of acoustic research. Neither applies to game speech. Keep lossless copies if you want/must, but there is no reason to use these for the actual game.