RPG Music

[Oz]

Well,

Here are a couple of short tunes (loops) I've made for an AGS-based RPG.
My first crack at RPG music, so C+C would be appreciated!

Haunted forrest music:

http://hem.bredband.net/druid/waltz_of_the_ghouls.mp3

Town music:

http://hem.bredband.net/druid/safe_ground.mp3

Hmmm. Battle music?:

http://hem.bredband.net/druid/rising_storm.mp3

Desert music:

http://hem.bredband.net/druid/ocean_of_sand.mp3

Title music:

http://hem.bredband.net/druid/last_fate.mp3

[Pet Terry]

Yowza! These are quite excellent pieces of music! All of them would fit really well the situations you wrote them for, and they are really RPGish, especially the battle music and title theme. Really good work, keep it up.

[UP]

Well, lets just say these make me want to hear music in the games...

[Andail]

The battle theme reminds me of warcraft 2, which is quite an accomplishment.
Well done!

[falconmusic]

well, this is my first music critiq at this forum so here goes (ps: I used to write reviews for godsofmusic.com so i might be a little hard.

These are REALLY good for a first attempt at rpg music. My only problem with them is that they sound like the music from EVERY rpg ever made. People will get bored with this music really fast. My suggestion would be to try something new. something original. maybe throw some techno elements into it. or a screaming vocalist. something to catch the attention of the person playing the game.

The melodies in these songs do keep the mood your going for. but a person playing a game doesen't want just that. they want to hear a simaler theme in them (think the mario theme song) like a melody that plays throughout that you put into diffrent keys and warp around.

I enjoyed the theme song myself but to the average listener it would get pretty boring. classical music is all but gone these days. what would be cool would be to have a dnb or hip hop beat going with those strings and maybe a nice hard bass.

good work though. i enjoyed them. Those comments probably sound really mean. I just wrote then cause i felt i HAD to write something to help make your art even better. As i always say. no matter how good you are thier is always room for improvment (i take this to heart in my own music).

i hope this helped in some way.

[Oz]

well, this is my first music critiq at this forum so here goes (ps: I used to write reviews for godsofmusic.com so i might be a little hard.

These are REALLY good for a first attempt at rpg music. My only problem with them is that they sound like the music from EVERY rpg ever made. People will get bored with this music really fast. My suggestion would be to try something new. something original. maybe throw some techno elements into it. or a screaming vocalist. something to catch the attention of the person playing the game.

The melodies in these songs do keep the mood your going for. but a person playing a game doesen't want just that. they want to hear a simaler theme in them (think the mario theme song) like a melody that plays throughout that you put into diffrent keys and warp around.

I enjoyed the theme song myself but to the average listener it would get pretty boring. classical music is all but gone these days. what would be cool would be to have a dnb or hip hop beat going with those strings and maybe a nice hard bass.

good work though. i enjoyed them. Those comments probably sound really mean. I just wrote then cause i felt i HAD to write something to help make your art even better. As i always say. no matter how good you are thier is always room for improvment (i take this to heart in my own music).

i hope this helped in some way.

I am pretty sure you are absolutely right. The music is very "traditional", which is mostly a result of the fact that I haven't composed RPG music earlier. I needed something to grab hold to while doing this so I basically just brought up the prototypical definition of "RPG music" (fantasy style) in my mind and used it as a guideline. Also, the term "RPG music" is a bit vague, as I believe RPG music can be just about any music. Like you suggest, throwing in some drums and other contrasting sounds might rub away the cliché feel. I'll give it a go.

Thanks again, good crit!

[mousemat]

absolutly amazing music amazingly profesional
cool 

[jrl2222]

If you don't mind me asking, what program are you using to build the music?

[Oz]

If you don't mind me asking, what program are you using to build the music?

I'm using Reason 2.5. Sometimes I record live instruments in Cubase SX but mostly everything is seqeunced in Reason.

[SpacePirateCaine]

Hey there. I've listened through your tracks and I'd like to say that I'm impressed. I've been listening through a few times your track, 'Ocean of Sand', and thought I'd make a comment or two on it, ideally for your benefit.

I'm not entirely sure I agree with everything that falconmusic said about your music, as the average listener/RPG gamer is used to a few certain conventions when listening to RPG music. The reason that many games have relied on said conventions, is because they work, and convey the mood and/or setting of the games themselves. In particular, I thought that your Desert music was a good example of this, and reminded me a bit of Aveh, in Xenogears (By Squaresoft) or to a lesser extent the general feeling of Shapier in Quest for Glory II. The ways in which you used your percussion and strings seemed particularly well-thought-out to me, and had a very 'desert city' feel to them.

What threw me a bit were the woodwinds - both the flute and clarinet parts seemed a bit busy, which tend to draw attention to them. In my limited experience, I find that the best background musics don't draw so much attention to themselves that they become obtrusive, and though they have far from reached that level, they seem a bit 'busy', if that makes any sense.

Were the songs to be standard musical compositions, and not designed to be listened to as a loop during a game, I'd be quite likely to agree with falconmusic about his Drum 'n Bass or Hip Hop drum suggestions, but in the case of a Fantasy setting, with the exception of certain events, I'd say they'd almost detract from the experience. The point of background music is to create something that entertains, and is potentially reckoned as extremely good, but still have to be something that don't intrude upon the 'foreground'. In the case of combat music, yes. In the case of, say, your town music, it wouldn't quite seem right to me.

I'd almost like to hear the tunes 'toned down' a bit, especially in the case that they're going to be loops of roughly thirty seconds apiece. Complicated lead lines and what-have-you are wonderful, and most certainly have a place, but if you were to use them, I'd suggest lengthening the songs themselves to accomodate them; as in the case of having them repeat twice a minute, they could theoretically start to wear on the listener.

Nonetheless, they are magnificent pieces of music. I'd be quite interested to get my hands on your .rns files to pick through them.

[Oz]

What threw me a bit were the woodwinds - both the flute and clarinet parts seemed a bit busy, which tend to draw attention to them. In my limited experience, I find that the best background musics don't draw so much attention to themselves that they become obtrusive, and though they have far from reached that level, they seem a bit 'busy', if that makes any sense.

You definitely have a point there. Some elements can be toned down and you are totally right about some of the leads being a bit obtrusive (for background music). The loops WILL be extended, these are just "sample loops".

Thanks!

[Nhazgul]

I agree that you should try to tone it down to the background, BUT - the best thing to do is to make two kinds of each theme; one toned down and one that draws attention. With this you can change the atmosphere from calm to thrilled.

I love the battle theme, reminds me of Secret of Mana. And haunted forest sounds like Diablo, too bad because they're all good. Falconmusic has a point. They should be more alike. Maybe you should use the same instruments? or reuse melody-slings? Good luck!

[Gregjazz]

My crit --

Haunted forest music:

Work on that cello. Add some vibrato and try to make a real bowed sound to it. Also, you should apply more reverb to everything, and make that flute sound blend in more.

Town music:

Add more echo in here, also. I don't know how to explain it, but try to make it more 'twinkley'. Maybe mix in some more bells higher up, and have very few bass/treble instruments except for a low pizzicato section (like in the music for Apprentice 2). Maybe add a harp that goes up leading into another section or something.

Battle music:

Turn down the snare -- it should really blend in rather than stick out. Also, make everything a lot more dynamic volume-wise. Make the beginning of sections really quiet, and then build up really loud, and then suddenly get quiet after a big crash and timpani hit. Add more reverb, too. You get the idea.

Desert music:

I love that sound. It should be a bit more dynamic, also, mixing those percussion instruments way in the back. Add reverb to this song, too. Ooh, a nice low Tambura would suit this song well, in my opinion. Maybe add some more triangle hits, too.

Title screen:

Guess what? Add more reverb to this song also. You'll be surprised at how much more realistic and full it will some with some subtle reverb. Maybe add a high flute melody as soon as that string section comes in. A flute with nice vibrato and grace notes and lots of expression.

-----

All in all, you have some good stuff going on there. Nice job! Check out ftp://hx.bounceme.net/Soundfonts/ for some of my orchestral soundfonts (namely 'kodo drum' and 'war drums'). I think you'd find them very useful.

[Oz]

My crit --

Haunted forest music:

Work on that cello. Add some vibrato and try to make a real bowed sound to it. Also, you should apply more reverb to everything, and make that flute sound blend in more.

Town music:

Add more echo in here, also. I don't know how to explain it, but try to make it more 'twinkley'. Maybe mix in some more bells higher up, and have very few bass/treble instruments except for a low pizzicato section (like in the music for Apprentice 2). Maybe add a harp that goes up leading into another section or something.

Battle music:

Turn down the snare -- it should really blend in rather than stick out. Also, make everything a lot more dynamic volume-wise. Make the beginning of sections really quiet, and then build up really loud, and then suddenly get quiet after a big crash and timpani hit. Add more reverb, too. You get the idea.

Desert music:

I love that sound. It should be a bit more dynamic, also, mixing those percussion instruments way in the back. Add reverb to this song, too. Ooh, a nice low Tambura would suit this song well, in my opinion. Maybe add some more triangle hits, too.

Title screen:

Guess what? Add more reverb to this song also. You'll be surprised at how much more realistic and full it will some with some subtle reverb. Maybe add a high flute melody as soon as that string section comes in. A flute with nice vibrato and grace notes and lots of expression.

-----

All in all, you have some good stuff going on there. Nice job! Check out ftp://hx.bounceme.net/Soundfonts/ for some of my orchestral soundfonts (namely 'kodo drum' and 'war drums'). I think you'd find them very useful.

Thanks for the crit! I usually avoid added reverb (at least too much of it) as I think it makes the music sound distant and gives it that horrible 80s touch, but in this case I think you might be right. A small amount of reverb might make the sound more spacious. I agree about the snare in the battle theme, it must be muffled slightly. Thanks again for the explicit crit! I appreciate it.

[Gregjazz]

These are all just suggestions.

Reverb makes stuff sound distant only if you either have a lot of it, or the dry/wet mix is leaning towards the wet mix. In music, remember that everything must be used very subtly. Lots of subtle things add up to one great song.

As far as 'muffling' (taking out the high frequencies in a sound) the snare, that would work, but what I usually do to 'muffle' an instrument is just turn the volume way down. The way I find a good volume is to turn it down as far as it will go until it is still recognizable but not attention-drawing. That's probably a bit too drastic in this case, but you get the idea.

[loominous]

Using reverb and panning is like placing instrumentalists on a stage. Panning sets their left to right location, and reverb their front to back position.

Having the whole ensemble in the backrow will create a distant sound, which I agree isn t preferable, but to give depth, some need to be further back than others.

I suggest you position the instruments/sections individually if possible, both pan wise and reverb wise, which will give depth and breadth and add realism.

About the snaredrum, I d simply put it further back (in a standard symphonic orchestra setting the percussion section is placed on the backrow).

[Oz]

Using reverb and panning is like placing instrumentalists on a stage. Panning sets their left to right location, and reverb their front to back position.

Having the whole ensemble in the backrow will create a distant sound, which I agree isn t preferable, but to give depth, some need to be further back than others.

I suggest you position the instruments/sections individually if possible, both pan wise and reverb wise, which will give depth and breadth and add realism.

About the snaredrum, I d simply put it further back (in a standard symphonic orchestra setting the percussion section is placed on the backrow).

Great piece of advice. I've never thought about panning/reverb like that (good illustration).

I just hate when people overuse reverb/echo and any other effect in their music. I grew up in the 80s but I really don't like the way most music sounded back then. Talk about totally drenching the sound in monstrous reverb. I really dig the dry mixes of the 70s though. Almost no reverb/echo at all. Tower of Power's early records are prime examples of the kind of sound I like (tight and wrapped up). As with many other things I think it's a matter of taste.

This forum is very rewarding! Lots of tips and interesting people to talk to.

Geoffkhan,

I went through some of your stuff and much of it sounds like it was recorded live (live instruments). Are you composing most of your music like this? Very good stuff I must say.

[falconmusic]

while where on the topics of music tips here is a good one for everyone.

If you want you song to sound 10 times more profesional, Make a frequency spectrum for each instrument. that means equilize the bass so it only has the lower frequencies and set the high string to only play high frequencies. Make sure when you do this that when all the instruments come together it filles up the entire equilizer. This will make your song sound more complete. This makes instruments stand out more and sound a-lot more profesional. Also i recomend compressing the entire song a bit. Just to bring out more of the sound.

You can find more tips like this at me site www.falconmusic.tk just click help for begginers.

[He-Man]

First of all: these pieces are really good!
Really proffesional use of Reason. And they really would set a great mood for a RPG.

THe only thing I can find to crit are the drums on Ocean of Sand.
They sound a little too midi and that ruins the mood a little...

keep up the good work...

[geoffkhan (lazy login)]

Using reverb and panning is like placing instrumentalists on a stage. Panning sets their left to right location, and reverb their front to back position.

Having the whole ensemble in the backrow will create a distant sound, which I agree isn t preferable, but to give depth, some need to be further back than others.

I suggest you position the instruments/sections individually if possible, both pan wise and reverb wise, which will give depth and breadth and add realism.

About the snaredrum, I d simply put it further back (in a standard symphonic orchestra setting the percussion section is placed on the backrow).

Great piece of advice. I've never thought about panning/reverb like that (good illustration).

I just hate when people overuse reverb/echo and any other effect in their music. I grew up in the 80s but I really don't like the way most music sounded back then. Talk about totally drenching the sound in monstrous reverb. I really dig the dry mixes of the 70s though. Almost no reverb/echo at all. Tower of Power's early records are prime examples of the kind of sound I like (tight and wrapped up). As with many other things I think it's a matter of taste.

This forum is very rewarding! Lots of tips and interesting people to talk to.

Geoffkhan,

I went through some of your stuff and much of it sounds like it was recorded live (live instruments). Are you composing most of your music like this? Very good stuff I must say.

I try to make my music as realistic as possible, yes. Thank you for the compliment. Sometimes to make good music you have to have good sounds, so that's why I put some of my soundfonts on that FTP thing.

This is how I simulate a real orchestra setting:

- Pan the instruments like a normal orchestra, for example, the 1st and 2nd violin sections are left of the center, the brass are in back in the center right, etc. There's info about that online.

- Apply a little reverb to everything. Just increase the "wet" volume and leave the "dry" volume at 100%.

- For instruments farther back, decrease the "dry" volume and increase the "wet" volume.

- Make sure each single instrument sounds realistic by itself. Do not use the "String Section" patch, put together your own string sections. Again, you can find info about typical orchestra setups online.

- Perform as much as possible on a keyboard, rather than entering things note by note. Fix up mistakes manually rather than using quantize.

Anyways, you get the idea. You don't have to do it this way, but I'm just telling you the way I do it.