3D point and click

[BorisZ]

I realised that (as far as I know) no 3d point'n'click game was ever made: Monkey island 4 or Grim fandango are not point and click games as far as I am concerned- they can be refered to as "move character by keyboard and use actions by keyboard too".

Realising that I came to idea of making real 3d point'n'click adventure game: I found the right engine for that and prepared everything for production (that doesn't mean that I am giving up AGS- far from it!). The main problem that I encountered was: how to move (2d) cursor in 3d world, I mean- how to know where carracter is supposed to go if there is an object in front of place we clicked... And I found very elegant solution: cursor itself can not be in 2d! It must follow 3d space. That means that it will follow the floor and walls and it will appear on object when passed over it (hope you get what I mean). Everything else will be just the same as in any other classic 2d adventure game.

And I came to final part: does any one of you want to take part in this game, because it would be lot's of work for one man to do. I need various things such as: story,  GUI's, 2d graphics, 3d meshes (characters and backgrounds) as there will (really) be lot's of programing/testing/debugging for me to do.

I need some feedback about the idea itself and about (eventual) support in creating.

Thanks for your time.

[Mr Jake]

the mouse CANT move in 3d. Ever, its impossible. The mouse controls two axis and two axis only.

[Chicky]

heh

*Chicky imagines trying to use 3d mouse

*Chickys head hurts

*edit*

*Chicky thinks that Black and Whites mouse controll would work well.

[TheJBurger]

Wouldn't it be simpler to use an interface similiar to KOTOR (PC version)?

The interface in KOTOR was that the player character moved by W, A, S, D, and when you got close enough to certain objects, you click on them with a mouse.

This eliminates the need to move the character with the mouse, and you can still interact with objects with a 2D mouse.

Just a suggestion.

[MrColossal]

in case you're not joking:

then explain this game hotspot:

http://www.agsforums.com/yabb/index.php?topic=17128.0

also, that's not very creative of you to think that a cursor can only control 2 axis. It may look that way on screen but there's tons of stuff you can do with a cursor.

And the way he described his cursor system sounds like an useable idea... don't know how good it would work but we'd have to see. How would it handle something in the middle of the room like let's say a dangling bit of robe? would you have to move the cursor across the floor, up the wall, over the ceiling and then to the rope?

Check out the link I posted about and play that demo for insperation.

anyway:

BorisZ, why should people help you? That is the big question everyon should ask before posting a request for help.

Do you know how to program? Do you know how to work in 3d? You say there will be programming for you to do but what language or engine will it be in? Are there examples of things you've done before? Do you have a story or anything besides a vague idea that you want to make a 3d adventure game?

[scotch]

You move the mouse just like in a 2d p&c game, it moves relative to screen coordinates so it feels the same. Then we use a bit of mathematics and collision checking to trace a line from the camera, through the cursor, into the scene to see what 3d coordinates the mouse is pointed at.  Like how a fps finds what point your railgun hits when you click the fire button, except the cursor isn't always in the middle of the screen like an fps crosshair.  Of course a mouse can't move in 3d, but that is not necessary to click on an unit in a 3d strategy game for example, it's the same idea.
You can use point and click in my WIP 3d adventure game engine, it works.
I might have helped you borisz, if I wasn't already working on own 3d adventure game.

[shbaz]

What scotch said.

In Blender3d we use this python script:

mClick = c.getSensor("Left Click")
mOver = c.getSensor("Mouse Over")

if mClick.isPositive() and mOver.isPositive():

    ## Run Script ##

Which would enact a script after clicking programmed objects. The mouse sensor is built into the program and uses Zdepth to find the targets.

[DragonRose]

I realised that (as far as I know) no 3d point'n'click game was ever made: Monkey island 4 or Grim fandango are not point and click games as far as I am concerned- they can be refered to as "move character by keyboard and use actions by keyboard too".

Gabriel Knight 3.Ã,  Character movement and interactions controlled by mouse, keyboard could be used in conjunction with the mouse to alter camera views, completely 3D environment. (GF was prerendered, never played MI4).

There is even a freeware engine for making this kind of game. http://3das.noeska.com/ It's only in alpha, but if you're interested go and use it, pestering the makers to work on it.

Edit: Ooo! I thought of another one! Castle Master! This was a 3D game for DOS/Atari/Commodore 64.  It had minimal interaction (pick up things, throw rocks, flip switches, open doors). It was first person, and you could move around by clicking on a set of direction arrows. This does, however, come dangerously close to direct control.  However, all interactions were, as I recall, by mouse.

Man, that was an awesome game.

[BorisZ]

How would it handle something in the middle of the room like let's say a dangling bit of robe? would you have to move the cursor across the floor, up the wall, over the ceiling and then to the rope?

Across the floor, just like in any 2d game.

BorisZ, why should people help you? That is the big question everyon should ask before posting a request for help.
Do you know how to program? Do you know how to work in 3d? You say there will be programming for you to do but what language or engine will it be in?

Visual C++, I adjusted and combined some free engines just for this purpose. I know how to work with 3d studio, yes.

[Miez]

And you could use your mouse in a (rather limited) 3D way: just make the little scroll wheel control your third axis (up & down for instance). Bit cumbersome - but hey.

[Radiant]

That would certainly work. It's more convenient than Ascendancy (3-d rts) that uses the control key + mouse for the third axis.

[TerranRich]

What about The Longest Journey? Broken Sword III? Aren't those 3D point 'n clicks?

[Esseb]

You move the mouse just like in a 2d p&c game, it moves relative to screen coordinates so it feels the same. Then we use a bit of mathematics and collision checking to trace a line from the camera, through the cursor, into the scene to see what 3d coordinates the mouse is pointed at.  Like how a fps finds what point your railgun hits when you click the fire button, except the cursor isn't always in the middle of the screen like an fps crosshair.  Of course a mouse can't move in 3d, but that is not necessary to click on an unit in a 3d strategy game for example, it's the same idea.

The way I understood the original post was to use this method but let the cursor be a 3D object which is rendered near the object you're pointing at, so it's easier to see which object will be affected when you interact. I.e alter the Z-coordinates of a 3D cursor, possible a hand, based on what you're pointing at, while X and Y coordinates are moved normally by the mouse.

[BorisZ]

Something like that, with one exception: cursor won't be 3d object (it would really be too hard to do it properly), but 2d object that acts like 3d (only for z axis).

[BlackMan890]

I realised that (as far as I know) no 3d point'n'click game was ever made: Monkey island 4 or Grim fandango are not point and click games as far as I am concerned- they can be refered to as "move character by keyboard and use actions by keyboard too".

no it will be "keyboard and click" or "click on keyboard"

[BorisZ]

Why not move Joystick and press?

[Trumgottist]

I played a demo of an RTS that had a very nice (mouse driven) interface. I don't think it'd work well for a standard adventure game, but I can imagine it working well for something in the style of Gobliiins or Woodruff where there is a more clear distinction between player and player character. Hmm... what was the game called? Can't remember, but it was set on a space station with cute aliens (including the grey ones that make crop circles for fun). Does anyone know what I'm talking about?

[Ghormak]

Startopia?

[Xentor]

Exactly what kind of 3D are you going for?

If the gameplay is similar to the old 2D style (i.e. a character walking around on the ground), you could just run mouse movements through a translation matrix and change the mouse from an X/Y pointer to an X/Z pointer, keeping it always a certain distance above the ground.

If you have multiple floors, say, a ledge you can walk under or cross over, you could still use the above method, but choose the level that's closest to the character's Z-coordinate.

On the other hand, if your character actually moves in three dimensions (Wall-climbing or flying), THEN you'll have to do something really fancy for the control set... Maybe have the cursor start as X/Z, then change to the Y axis when you press the button down.  For example, you move the cursor to a point on the floor, press and hold the left mouse button to choose the height, then release to actually "click"...

This looks like an interesting idea, but be careful not to get so wrapped up in the gimmicks that you forget the gameplay and story...

[BorisZ]

If the gameplay is similar to the old 2D style (i.e. a character walking around on the ground), you could just run mouse movements through a translation matrix and change the mouse from an X/Y pointer to an X/Z pointer, keeping it always a certain distance above the ground.

Like old style 2d game, and something like that: not above the ground,  but ON the ground.

This looks like an interesting idea, but be careful not to get so wrapped up in the gimmicks that you forget the gameplay and story...

Yes, I know that. That's exactly why I need support.