oldiegoldies : text adventure games

[Teemu Erämaa]

Hello again - been busy programming my 3DAdventure Game editor, not so much posts in these forums for a loong time.

Just wondering if anyone you guys have an opinion of text adventure games? you know, those oldies which maybe some (not so young) freaks may have run into..?
I found one little program from my hard drive this day after staying late last night thinking how adventure games are dying and how to bring new life into this category..

http://ameba.lpt.fi/~eratee/agte/ - is the link, but hey - no one really is interested in these things anymore...? or are they?

I have a vision of tying the experience of playing adventure games more emotional and intense. And clicking with mouse might not be the way to go..

...umm.. I don't know what I'm talking about. Might be the Earthquake-fuss .

[Radiant]

Text adventures, or interactive fiction, are far from dead. There is a yearly contest for writing them, with a large participation. www.ifarchive.org

And yes, I love them. Especially infocommies. *frotzes self*

[Anym]

I'm too young to have played the old Infocom games, and these days, spoilt by LucasArts, I can't get into them. But I do love (and reccomend) almost everything by Adam Cadre at http://adamcadre.ac/if.html

Other than that http://www.plover.net/~textfire/raiffaq/ifaq/ seems to be a good starting point.

[qptain Nemo]

I like Legend's IFs. Their parser is maybe just more clever a bit. But Infocom's are great too, of course.

[Radiant]

Actually Legend's parser is the same as Infocom's Z-machine. Only they've added more synonyms, which always helps. But all those Legend'isms such as 'Location: place (in the chest)' and the inability to use 'look thing' (you need to 'look at thing') are from Infocom.

[Nick Dangerous]

I played some text-based MMORPGs (Massive Multiplayer Roleplaying Games), that are pretty much like Text-Adventures (Try http://www.onrpg.com/mmorpg-free-games7.html if you want to take a look at some). During the big times of Infocom & Co my not existing english-skills prevented me from playing those games and later on I didn't have the patience to really get into one (I started Hitchickers Guide a hundred times but never played longer than 15min), but I often thought about how cool a really good programmed Text-Adventure could be nowerdays. Does not mean that existing ones might not be cool, but what if text adventures would use the power of newer computers.
Not only a brilliant, developing parser. I thought of artificial intelligence and a world that's changing during the game. I mean not only day-night or seasons. People in the world can walk around, do different thinks, like go to work, have different hobbys, maybe growup, die, have children, change their interests due to their experiences, develope different characteristica...
The player could have endless possibilitys to interact with this world and to influence it.

Wow!

[Rui 'Trovatore' Pires]

But those things ARE being explored. Only, in a graphical and 3D environment.

Me, I'm a SUDS person all the way. I HATE typing, it so often led to guess-the-verb.

http://www.btinternet.com/~sudslore/

[Nick Dangerous]

But those things ARE being explored. Only, in a graphical and 3D environment.

Well, I thought about this. But all these games are very limited due to AI or physic-engines. I'm thinking of real freedom to do whatever you want. Not just carrying things around, laying them down elsewhere or killing people to have some guards beeing alerted for the next few seconds. If there would be some (or to be a little more realistic: a bunch of) well developed formulas and models used to calculate how society, nature, people and so on react to certain interactions, how they act and interact without the player character beeing involved, think of the possibilitys. The player would also not be restricted by a very limited number of commands and possible actions.

[Rui 'Trovatore' Pires]

Well, I thought about this. But all these games are very limited due to AI or physic-engines. I'm thinking of real freedom to do whatever you want. Not just carrying things around, laying them down elsewhere or killing people to have some guards beeing alerted for the next few seconds. If there would be some (or to be a little more realistic: a bunch of) well developed formulas and models used to calculate how society, nature, people and so on react to certain interactions, how they act and interact without the player character beeing involved, think of the possibilitys. The player would also not be restricted by a very limited number of commands and possible actions.   

But those things ARE being explored. Only, in a graphical and 3D environment.

Heh. They are still being EXPLORED. Real freedom has never been this close.
At any rate, the text format doesn't make it easier to make these things, you know. In fact, it might make it harder... but I'm talking out of my a** now...

[Khris]

Before I discovered AGS, I was quite into text-adventures.
There are still lots of people designing them and some of the current ones are very original and funny (like those of Adam Cadre, as already mentioned in this thread).
Of course there are text-advs where players might feel like reading a novel, but most of these are older ones.

There are several languages available, with Inform being the most popular and my favourite.
It resembles C and is relatively easy to learn.

It would take some effort, but a rich, populated world with many different NPCs is in fact possible.

[Teemu Erämaa]

Me, I'm a SUDS person all the way. I HATE typing, it so often led to guess-the-verb.

Have you heard of the speech reckognizing systems? think about that; you babble "go to the north" to the microphone and that happens - no hands needed.
Still on working that one...

[Rui 'Trovatore' Pires]

What, Storyharp? It sucks. It reads horribly.

[Secret Fawful]

Hound of Shadow comes to mind. So does The Lurking Horror.

[King]

I am very very new to graphical adventure games (point and click). I was introduced to this by a friend who had enjoyed the text adventure game I had developed. He said I should look into AGS and consider developing my next game in it.

I've tried a few AGS games and liked the concept (although most of the games crash on my system!  ). But comparing to my text gaming experience, I find the adventure games a bit limited because there are only so few commands possible like look at, pick up, use. In text adventures, you could have something like "kick villain, punch him, throw chair at him, stab him, run east!".

As for "guess the verb", yes, that's a serious problem in text games but it's not 'cos of the medium itself but 'cos of the developer's laziness. A good developer will code in (almost) all intuitive verbs and synonyms.

Now that I've said so much about text adventures, I'd like to ask you guys to try out the game I and a friend had developed using the Text Adventure Development System. It's a simple and not-so-long game that will give you a general feel of text gaming. You can find my game "Mr Walker's Last Mile" on my website: http://www.deepwoods.cjb.net/

Umm... it's my request that you do not ever link directly to my game setup file (once you find it) or share the file with anyone directly. Please always link to my website. This way I can keep track of how many people have downloaded it. Thanks! (And no, the intention of this post wasn't just to promote my game  )

[Rui 'Trovatore' Pires]

comparing to my text gaming experience, I find the adventure games a bit limited because there are only so few commands possible like look at, pick up, use. In text adventures, you could have something like "kick villain, punch him, throw chair at him, stab him, run east!".

That depends on the game. There's Sierra and Lec, with some verbs; there's Full Throttle and others with SPECIFIC non-common verbs; there's LSL7 (for instance) which has both parser and point and click...

1st - The games needn't be limited. The developer can include 50 verbs or ways to do things if he so chooses.

2nd - At any rate, why would you have to, say, "run east" or "throw chair at pirate" or "strangle cook" in Monkey Island, to give a small example? It's not ALWAYS about limitation - it's also in how would this freedom be useful. And that depends on the story and the puzzles, not whether the game is graphical or not. The ONLY thing about "freedom" that text games have is, it knows much more verbs because they don't NEED to be listed all at the same time, and such. The overall system is EXACTLY the same as a graphic adventure.

[Bernie]

King - It's possible to add a text parser in AGS. You could even make a custom one, if the standard parser functions in AGS don't suit your needs.

Interactive fiction... are the older sierra games with the parser also 'IF'?

[Rui 'Trovatore' Pires]

No, interactive fiction is solely "text adventures".

[Anym]

I'd say it depends on your definition. For example are Legend's games (like Gateway and Eric The Unready, parser-driven with static graphics and clickable verbs and objects) text adventures, graphical text adventures, graphical adventures or interactive fiction? And where do you draw the line, especially as later Legend games (like Superhero League of Hoboken or Mission Critical) are even more like graphical adventures.

That being said, I agree that Sierra AGI games are the progentior of graphical adventures and mark a departure from the Colossal-Caves-tradition, whereas the Legend games (at least those that I've played) are IMHO more indebted to Zork than to King's Quest (which isn't to say that King's Quest and Maniac Manison weren't indebted to Zork and Colossal Caves as well).

However, I wouldn't say that all text adventures are automatically interactive fiction or that interactive fiction is a term that should be limited to text adventures. I'd rather classify them based on the balance between story and puzzles, that way most of the modern interactive fiction is interactive fiction while many text adventures of old and most graphical adventures are still adventure games, with some notable exceptions like Loom.

[King]

It's not ALWAYS about limitation - it's also in how would this freedom be useful. And that depends on the story and the puzzles, not whether the game is graphical or not. The ONLY thing about "freedom" that text games have is, it knows much more verbs because they don't NEED to be listed all at the same time, and such. The overall system is EXACTLY the same as a graphic adventure.

You are right there. And of course, I never said that one medium was better than the other -- both have their plus points and minus points.

Coming from text gaming, these are the things I first noticed (in common games). But I also liked the use of good graphics... but use of graphics is another controversial point in IF. Not many like this concept in the first place... for many the attraction of text games lies in the fact that it makes you use your "imagination" and not just "think", while in graphical adventures, you do use your brains (unlike shooter games, imho) but to "think", not exactly "imagine" or "picture" the world described to you. I guess you could say that text games are like interactive novels while graphical adventures are like interactive movies.

But then again, I'm quite new here and so may be wrong.

[King]

King - It's possible to add a text parser in AGS. You could even make a custom one, if the standard parser functions in AGS don't suit your needs.

That's cool! But I wonder if I could myself build as good & powerful a parser as the already available ones like TADS or Inform. Plus, it'll of course distract me from concentrating on the game and the storyline in the first place.