The Fine Fish Restaurant - help needed

[Mats Berglinn]

Here is another background I'm working on for Caribbean Mysteries. I have some problems with this one. First of all I don't know what color I should use on the floormat. The blue color is just a substitute until I get a better color. First I was thinking about red but then I thought that red is a little bit overused. What do you think?

Also, since this is a luxurary restaurant I'm thinking of using a wall covering but I don't know what pattern I should use because it's quite boring with a blank wall.

My third problem is the picture frame. Since the owner/waiter/cook is french I was going to color Mona Lisa on it but it didn't work out and now I don't know what there should be instead.

Otherwise... let me hear your opinion. What else should be better here?

[DontTreadOnMe]

Ã,  The floor should be marroon, like the chairs... an if you wanna be really french then it needs drapes... maroon drapes... just not too much marroon. A big chandalier wouldnt look out of place either.
Ã,  It needs skirting boards around the floor as well as skirtingboard like things around the cieling.
Ã,  On a technical note the perspective on the little standy thing by the door is off in the bottom right. The right edge should point up not down. Im also a little unclear of what is going on in the left side, what i think you are trying to show here is that the left wall has a corner bending away from us a little, however the cieling above it makes it look like its the cieling doesnt do the same. Here the corner between the cieling and the left hand wall should be pointing down, not up. As it is it makes it seem like we are looking down on the scene.

Hope you understood that an it helps - Rich
Ã, 

edit, just cuz i felt this was a little unclear about the perspective i just quickly drew on 2 lines to show how the perspective should look (they arent perfect as im no perspective expert, but i think they look a little more accurate, they probably need tinkering)

[Mats Berglinn]

Thanks for the tips. The standy thing is a podium where the waiter stands to greet the guests. Well, about the perspective, I drew this a long while ago by hand and then edited it in Paint and Photoshop. The way the wall is just an artical design but I will change the perspective.

I'm not sure about the color suggestion of yours but wouldn't it be too much of the same color if I used maroon on the floor and having maroon drapes if I already have maroon on the chairs too? Maybe the maroon color on the floormat on the drapes should be a bit lighter or darker color than on the chairs to give more color to the scene?

[DontTreadOnMe]

True, but drapes would definetly add to the scene... im sure of it... maybe. Too much maroon may be a problem, but the floor definetly cant stay blue, too shocking.
One last thing i just noticed is "le kitchen" should be la cuisine, unless you were going for tacky french spelling and this guy isnt really french, which would be fine.
The painting, i cant really think of anything, but if it was me I would not have one big picture, but a few smaller ones, for example of famouse people that have dined at the ersteraunt.
On the color i would just go for whatever looks good, try diferent combinations and shades.

good luck, its looking like an interesting scene  - Rich

[DragonRose]

The Mona Lisa is Italian, not french.

Anyway, you have a really nice sense of depth to the picture. The table closest to the front looks great. I would advise getting rid of the boom-box, though. It doesn't fit in with the "fine dining" look.

Take a look on google image search. You could probably get some good ideas for colours and wall decorations there.

[Mats Berglinn]

Dragon-rose: The stereo is there for playing classical musics on CDs. Yeah, I know Mona Lisa is Italian but wasn't Leonardo Da Vinci french? If he wasn't then how come the Mona Lisa painting is in Paris? I may have heard of that before but seem to forgot about it.

[Vince Twelve]

Yeah, I know Mona Lisa is Italian but wasn't Leonardo Da Vinci french? If he wasn't then how come the Mona Lisa painting is in Paris? I may have heard of that before but seem to forgot about it.

He's Italian.  The Mona Lisa is in the Louvre in Paris because the owners of the Louvre bought it and put it on display there.  Not all paintings need to stay in the counry from which they originated.

As for the pic.  Great sense of depth.  I love the table in front.  But you definitely should jazz the place up a bit.  I second the motion for a maroon carpet.  How about a decorative running board along the floor and ceiling.  I would also put a bit of a decorative pattern on the carpet, probably in gold.  But nothing too distracting, you don't want the floor drawing the eyes too much, maybe just an edging decoration.  I also think the boombox should go.  If this was a fancy place, they would have a built in sound system.  It just looks a little odd.  If you need it for a puzzle or something, at least off set it from the other table,  I'd move it closer to the host's podium.

As for the Mona Lisa, I don't really see a problem with it being there just because the artist was italian.  I mean, if the owner were really going for the full french experience, he wouldn't have written the slightly comical "Le Kitchen" over the kitchen door.  It would be the proper French: "La Cuisine"

[Mats Berglinn]

I'm not a big expert in luxuary restaurants but are the built-in sound-system vinsible or not? I'm just checking if I should replace the stereo with a sound-system.

As for the Mona Lisa, I don't really see a problem with it being there just because the artist was italian.  I mean, if the owner were really going for the full french experience, he wouldn't have written the slightly comical "Le Kitchen" over the kitchen door.  It would be the proper French: "La Cuisine"

Yeah, I know it's not proper french but the owner/waiter/cook is a french guy indeed even if he speaks english with a strong french accents and also uses some french words and terms along with the english like Captain Rottingham from Monkey Island 3 or Raoul from Grim Fandango. The "Le Kitchen" is actually a bit of a joke because this game's not actually 100 % serious but a more of a comedy game like the Monkey Island games. So, should it be "Le Kitchen" or "La Cuisine"?

[hedgefield]

You could put up speakers in the ceiling corners rather than a stereo next to the table. Or maybe a guy playing violin would be better for this type of restaurant.
Concerning the floor, if you're going for a carpet look, select the entire floor surface and add noise (given you use Photoshop or something that supports this method). If you don't overdo it, it's a neat carpet look, for cheap!

I really like the BG, looks cool. I've always been a sucker for these carribean settings.
And if I may nitpick, you could blur the frontmost table a bit. Gives it more depth sense. I'm just in love with special effects...

[Vince Twelve]

So, should it be "Le Kitchen" or "La Cuisine"?

No, it should definitely stay "Le Kitchen."  It's way better for a comedy game like this.

Ohh, I love largo's violin player idea!  It would take some extra animating, but it'd probably be worth it.

And if I may nitpick, you could blur the frontmost table a bit. Gives it more depth sense. I'm just in love with special effects...

Yeah, I've seen largo use this effect in some of the screenshots for his own game.  It does look pretty cool, but my concern is any walk-behinds.  Walking behind an object that blurs into the walkable area might look a little weird.  I'm sure largo has found a way to make it look good in his game.

I'd generally just stay away from blurring unless it's used effectively throughout your game, just to stay consistant in your art style.

Keep up the good work. 

Edited to add:

Also, I'd do a bit of shading on the walls, and not make the line on the corners black.

Some of the curvy lines on your tablecloths are black and some are gray.  The gray look better.

Very few table cloths go all the way to the ground, most let the tables show a little bit of leg.
Finally... and I wouldn't change this if you're pretty far into making your game... but your art style doesn't necessitate that huge resolution, dropping it down to 640x480 or even 320x240 will save you file size, make your drawing look less empty, require less detail, require less work, and also hide a number of blemishes and mistakes.  Of course, that's totally your call.  You'd have to pretty much start from scratch art-wise.

[hedgefield]

Yeah, blurredness is not too great for walk-behinds. Generally it should be used in an area where the player cannot directly get to. You could copy the blurred edge off the image and set it up as a seperate object with about 50% transparancy, but that's quite a hassle, if it's even possible at all.

I think we all agree a violin guy would be cool. You only need to animate one arm. And even if it's just 2 or 3 frames, it'll look really good.

[Mats Berglinn]

Nah, blurr doesn't mix too well with my cartoony style so that's not something I'm going to use, sorry.

No, I've already decided that this place will be run by just one guy so I'm not going to add another character because there a heck of lots of characters (CM is not a small or medium game but a BIG one) already in the game. Besides, a violin-guy can only play with a violin and I want actually the music to be like a symphony orchestra and therefore playing it through a soundsystem. Also, another reason for that there's not violin guy is because of something that happens in the game (won't tell it what it is because it would spoil the surprise and fun).

largopredator: Do the tableclothes really have some black outlines? They all look gray to me and I recall paint all the blacklines on those from black to gray. About the resolution, I don't want to change it because it fits for the characters I have been done (and I've done pretty much basic sprites of them). Since I mostly handdraw everything and scan it I find it look more interesting that you don't shrink it down to a sprite that would fit in a 320x200 BG. The backgrounds have the size to fit the characters, not the opposite.
About adding noise to the BG, how do you that in Photoshop 6.0? Is there any turtorial that might be useful?

I'm almost done with the lastest version of the background. I'll upload it when it's ready.

[hedgefield]

Yeah I can understand that, blur is very specific for some styles, and sometimes it's a hassle to get it right.

I couldn't discover any black lines on the tablecloths either actually. Looks good to me. And I'm all for high resolutions, especially if you have everything hand-drawn. I run a webcomic so I know the pains when you resize drawings.

As for the noise, it's a photoshop filter, and I'm sure 6.0 has it too.
In the menubar, look for the option Filter>Noise>Add Noise. You should get a popup with the settings. It even has a preview.

Email or PM me if you need any further help on that.

[Mr. Mozzarella]

I'm not sure whether this may help you, but you could simply put a normal photo of the Mona Lisa into the frame:
Like this (I changed the colours a little so that they fit to the colourful room)

[Mats Berglinn]

I'm sorry Mr. Mozarella but I have changed my mind about Mona Lisa because Leo Da Vinci isn't french but italian and even if this is a humorous cartoon like game it wouldn't be too appropiate to have an italian thing in a luxurary french restaurant. It was quite good effort of you, though.

Here's a new version that is not totally finished but here it is anyway:



I'm not sure about the shadows but since it's daytime outside and there are some windows that are off-screen. I also haven't added the drapes because I'm not sure where I shall hang them and how to "hang" them up.

In case you wonder, the guy in the painting with yellow suit is Touché Island's governor, a character that you will see somewhere at the beginning (not right away from the beginning but after an hour or two of playing). The painting of the crocodile with purple jacket-vest is not a character that you meet in the game at all but he's a character that will be starring in a future game. His name is Crocis Crocodile and he's a famous guy.

The other guys are just madeup guys for this game but when you play you will at least know their names. I was planning to have a painting of George W Bush as a spoof but he was too tough to draw even with a photo as reference.

[hedgefield]

Cool, that looks much better. Good use of noise. Don't forget to self-shadow.

If you still would like to put Bush there, I drew a cartoon bush a while back, but I never used it, so if you wanna take a look at it let me know.

[Mr. Mozzarella]

I'm sorry Mr. Mozarella but I have changed my mind about Mona Lisa because Leo Da Vinci isn't french but italian and even if this is a humorous cartoon like game it wouldn't be too appropiate to have an italian thing in a luxurary french restaurant. It was quite good effort of you, though.

Here's a new version that is not totally finished but here it is anyway:


I'm not sure about the shadows but since it's daytime outside and there are some windows that are off-screen. I also haven't added the drapes because I'm not sure where I shall hang them and how to "hang" them up.

In case you wonder, the guy in the painting with yellow suit is Touché Island's governor, a character that you will see somewhere at the beginning (not right away from the beginning but after an hour or two of playing). The painting of the crocodile with purple jacket-vest is not a character that you meet in the game at all but he's a character that will be starring in a future game. His name is Crocis Crocodile and he's a famous guy.

The other guys are just madeup guys for this game but when you play you will at least know their names. I was planning to have a painting of George W Bush as a spoof but he was too tough to draw even with a photo as reference.

No problem. It's better the way it is now

[Problem]

It's much better now. I think the pcitures stand out too much, maybe try different colours? I like what you did to the floor, you could also try something similar with the rest of the room, the walls, chairs etc.
I think some of the outlines look too dark, but that might be your style

[Ozwalled]

I'm liking the look of this. What's that dark thing by the podium thingee, though?

Also, the lighting is, well, weird. Consider where it could be coming from, and it seems odd that the plant that close to the wall could be sending shadows in that direction.

(and there's no shadow going with the top candle on the table, but I just assume that's part of it being unfinished.)

Still, it has a very delightful cartoony kind of feel to it that I'm very much liking. And the change of carpet colour is a vast improvement.

[Vince Twelve]

What's that dark thing by the podium thingee, though?

Also, the lighting is, well, weird. Consider where it could be coming from, and it seems odd

I believe that's a phone.  And I second the lighting thing.  I'd rework the shadows a bit so that they're all coming from a more believable lightsource (usually not a wall  )

And sorry about the black lines on the tablecloths comment...  now that I'm on my laptop I don't see any.  Weird.  I'm going to have to give my desktop monitor a checkup.  Great revision...  keep up the good work.  Oh... I also suggest changing the color of the cieling.  Something lighter than the walls.