ZBrush 2 - anyone used it?

[Stefano]

I have recently discovered this 3D program that seems introduce new concepts to 3D modeling...
The site: http://pixologic.com
Anyone has used it? I would like to hear about your impressions.

Cheers,
Stefano

[scotch]

I know people, like myself, who have tried to use it... but nobody seems to be able to work out how to.

[shbaz]

Zbrush ain't new, though Zbrush2 is relatively.. but yeah, I've used it. Wish I could afford it, it's amazing.

I didn't get a chance to get really good at it because my trial period stopped.

Coincidentally, Blender doesn't support high-density displacement mapping yet anyway.

[stuh505]

ZBrush 2 is a very powerful, yet very limited, tool.

ZBrush 1 was really a 2D art program that used 3D features to get the effects.  Sort of like the 3d objects in Photoshop, the texturing effects in Photoshop, or the thick paint effects in Painter.

ZBrush goes a lot farther though, allowing you to actually make some objects, manipulate them, and then "drop" them onto the canvas (dropping means turning it into a 2D image).

As a result, ZBrush is sort of fun simply because you have all kinds of crazy wacky 3d tools to use to make art with.  It takes a lot of practice to be able to use these tools effectively though, mind you.  A lot of it has to do with learning special tricks, which you might pickup from tutorials...or being a clever SOB.

Pixologic lets you download a free copy of ZBrush.  This has got to be the dumbest move they could have possibly made...because their product did not get famous until ZB 2 came out.  So of course everyone is going to download the ZB 1 demo...and discover that it's just a silly little play program that does nothing good.

ALL of the features which makes ZBrush 2 famous and good are not found in ZBrush 1.

These features are:

1) Projection Master:  Projection master is a tool that allows you to rotate your 3D object into any position, and then "drop it".  This makes it a 2D image, but in this special case, it remembers the 3d shape.  Now you can paint on the screen like a paint program (although the painting tools are much weaker and more difficult to use than simple brushes like in Photoshop in my opinion).  When you're done, you can "pick up" your model again, and ZBrush will have allowed this 3D painting to create a texture for your object. (it can also be used to deform the geometry).  You can continue to pick up and drop from different angles.  This is sort of like DeepPaint 3D, but a lot more difficult to use because the seems/edges don't come out so well.  But if you have millions of polygons, it can be useful for adding geometric details to your mesh.

If you make your model in ZBrush, it will automaitcally calculate mapping coordinates, where it breaks up the UV map into small squares assigned to each polygon, by the way.  This can be very good if you don't take your model out of ZB (ie, you do your final render there as well) but it's pretty much useless if you need to have clean mapping coordinates later on.

2) ZSpheres:

ZSpheres offer an entirely new approach to modelling.  Basically, you have a red ball, and you can drag more balls out of it...and the balls are connected by more balls.  This is sort of like "sketching" because you could use these balls to form the shape of a creature or person or something.  Then at any time, you can click a button, and see a geometric mesh made that surrounds this configuration of balls.  The mesh will be clean, and based on quads.  This makes it really quick to generate organic models.  It's not very good for creating inorganic, or precise details, though.

The ZSpheres also have some serious flaws, in that it's very difficult to control the way the mesh is produced aroud them.  Often times, the mesh does not properly follow the ecaxt shape you intended...due to the fact that it bases it around cubes.  You can also get some nasty twisting.  There is a freely available plugin for this you can download that makes the process EASIER, but not easy.

I still find it easier to model using Subdiv surfaces, for inorganic and organic shapes alike.

One of the other cool things about ZSpheres is that as you are modelling more details onto the object, you can swithc back and change the position of the spheres...and your model changes accordingly.  It's sort of like you have a skinned and rigged character from the start.  Unfortunately, these arent real bones, and you'll still have to rig and skin it later on if you want that.

3) Displacement Calcuting:

This feature right here is what makes ZBrush popular, and this alone.  If you took this feature out, nobody would care about ZB...except a few hobbyists.

Because ZB only allows you to have 1 3D object "active" at a time, they have managed to program a very efficient memory management system (albeit, a very UNautomatic one), which allows you to mess around with more polygons on your objects than any other program in existence.

You can be easily messing around with objects that have 7 million polygons on them.

...

The number of polygons on your objects is limited only by the memory of your machine.  If you have 512 MB, you can get up to aroudn 3  or 4 (maybe 5) million polygons. 

Now, combine this with the displacement mapping feature...which allows you generate a displacement map between 2 meshes.  What you can do is import a regular low-poly character into ZBrush, then subdivide it a bunch of times so that this char is now 7 million polygons, and now you can start sculpting the model like putty using some basic tools -( basically you have a bump up and a bump down brush, and a smooth brush).  This allows you to add some cool details, like skin folds, wrinkels, scratches, rotting flesh, whatever you want.  Then you can have it calculate a displacement map for this to your original mesh.  Theoretically, you can apply this image map to your low poly mesh in another program (like Maya or Max) where you do all your rendering, and it will APPEAR the same as the high poly model!!!

This process is easier said than done.  My models usually come out looking a bit lumpier than they looked in ZB.

Using only 512 MB of ram, I have discovered that it is NOT POSSIBLE to achieve the kind of detail that ZB2 is used to gain its fame for, in such films as LOTR, Skycaptian, etc.

I would not consider using ZB to model scenes of any complexity, because manipulating objects in space is very difficult...and hard to judge when to drop your objects...remember you can only have 1 3D object at a time...

Nonetheless, there are a lot of people who produce fantastic and impresive artwork using NOTHNG but ZB2...

You should all check out pixolator.com ... this is the official forum where all the ZB masters go to post, this is where you download the manual, etc.

There are also some really cool videos at pixologic.com, check out the Angler fish video for sure.

Basically, if you're into 3D modelling, AND you use displacement maps, you NEED ZB2....but you also need 2 GB of ram.

[InCreator]

Well, I messed with it for awhile, and it's the most powerful 3d-sculpting tool in the world, It seemed. Even 3D n00b as I am can make realistic 3d face, which is total pain in 3ds max  for example.

But since there's no ways to keep lower polycount and export 3D into something useful, such as... ...games!, this has no much use.
At least, exporting 3ds format would make sense...

2D stuff is unpractical for a game maker too, and it's way too complicated to learn program until it would have some use. But there's always exceptions, and I would love to see someone really using this to make resources for a game.

[stuh505]

Well, I messed with it for awhile, and it's the most powerful 3d-sculpting tool in the world, It seemed. Even 3D n00b as I am can make realistic 3d face, which is total pain in 3ds max  for example.

Most people disagree with you, and choose to use a program like Modo/Silo/Max/Maya/XSI to model the head, and then use ZB2 only to add details to the head.  Using ZSpheres to construct a decent head is a bit unintuitive and doesn't produce the nicest results IMO.  Not to mention the fact that after modelling it in ZB, you would still need to export into another program to set up proper mapping coordinates, then import back to ZB to subdivide and add details.

But since there's no ways to keep lower polycount and export 3D into something useful, such as... ...games!, this has no much use.
At least, exporting 3ds format would make sense...

You are missing the point of the program.  You make a displacement map for the low poly, and this allows you to use low poly in other programs, and render with the displacement map so that it LOOKS like the high poly even though it's not.

You can export the low poly in OBJ format, which is the most standard object file format, and easily converted to .3ds format or any other format for that matter.  The displacement maps are made in tiff format which is also easily convertable.  So it's very compatible, you just need to learn how to use it.

[shbaz]

But since there's no ways to keep lower polycount and export 3D into something useful, such as... ...games!, this has no much use.

Wrong, in addition to making good displacement maps it also exports normal maps, for games. Because it is so easy and fast to manipulate a low-poly object into a hi-poly detailed object it's more preferable to use Zbrush for normal maps.