NOOO! KQIX shut down by Vivendi

[Scummbuddy]

Seems that LucasFan has gotten a nice letter in the email today...
http://www.lucasfangames.de/


It seems really early for all these april fools jokes.

[MrColossal]

Urgh! I love when people rant on about things they have no knowledge of. Someone email Vivendi and ask instead of pretending that because they have a lot of money they don't need to care about their copyrights.

scumm: Or they're making the games and not advertising them

[edmundito]

Make your own damn IP.

There's like millions of game developer professionals out there bitching how the gaming industry has boiled down to making crappy games based on other properties like comic books and whatnot. So, why do non-profit groups go out and attempt to make a game based on a game IP? Shouldn't they rebel against the norm and do something completely cool and different that hasn't been done before? All that effort wasted on imitating...

This shuting down has been going on for years and years... lucasarts did it first back in 1999, and apparently they're getting back to it. No one should pretend it's a shocking truth.

Basically, if you're playing with big fires and you know it, then you know you're going to get burned one of these days... badly.

m0ds, be careful with your Indy stuff. ¬¬

[Squinky]

Either way, it doesn't matter.

There's no need to bring things like this up since it would just create bad feelings, I know if I read that my hard work was put into question I would be a little more than offended.

There were tons of screenshots of the game in action, I'm sure that's proof enough.

Yeah, Your right. I didn't mean to offend anyone, but when you put it that way, I could see how it could.  Sorry bout that...

I too have never understood the lure of the fan game, I've always wanted to make my own game, crappy as they are. I can understand remaking games to actaully run on new systems, but all the big productions are making a huge gamble I wouldn't want to take.

[Kweepa]

The lure of the fan game is obvious...
- you don't have to make your own ip, which is difficult to do successfully
- you enjoyed the original games and want to continue the stories
- a well done fan game will get ten times the attention of a well done original game
- you might get your fizzog on the gogglebox!

I too apologise to anyone that worked on the game. I was half joking that it didn't exist. As for rebranding, perhaps they are doing that but changing website, company name etc. Perhaps Vivendi will pay less attention to a product if they don't know it was once a fan game.

[Pumaman]

I'm surprised Vivendi hasn't approached AGDI yet, especially considering the publicity they got for the KQ remakes. Maybe they're next on the hit list.

As GarageGothic says, AGDI have permission to create remakes of Sierra games. But that is all. If I remember correctly, their agreement allows them to remake existing games, but NOT to create sequels or spinoffs.

The difference between AGDI and KQ9 is that, should Vivendi decide to make a KQ9 one day, then the fact that there was already a pre-existing fan project of that name would confuse the public and cause them problems with their marketing.

On the other hand, remaking an existing game does not cause Vivendi these sorts of issues so it's safe for them to allow it.

[InCreator]

Ar. Just remove that (IMO, quite uninspiring) "King's Quest IX" part from game name. Give charaters unique names (if not already) and voila! Story could be simply rearranged a bit to make it a different land and characters (remove ties to original KQ names and places).

[jetxl]

The creators of that dragon ball z mod for quake/unreal(?) got a letter from bandai(?) that they should stop working on it (the mod got alot of publicity too). The makers organized a contest where people could send them models of non exsisting dbz-like characters and released their mod using those.

In the fifa games, the dutch players never had the right names, because they had to ask every single player for permission. But there are free patches that  fix it in the correct names.

Phoenix could do the same things and keep working on the game.


Why is lucasfangames.de closed? What recent events?

[Alarcon]

I really don't see why people got so excited over KQ IX.  Yes, the art was better than the crap that most indie adventure games feature.  But it wasn't that great and it was clear that they weren't very good at animating or compositing (check out how Valanice's head doesn't rest on the pillow properly).  The art quality is really quite low for commercial adventure games and lacks the character that almost every commercial adventure game has had.

Setting aside the art, what did it have going for it?  We heard one so-so voice actor and a so-so ho-hum piece of music.

Now what was it lacking?  Well, first off, it's pretty clear that they totally missed the spirit of the KQ series.  I confess, I've not played every KQ game through [complete: KQ1,2,5,6; mostly complete: 3,7; didn't play: 4,8], but the sense I had of the series -- which I think is right -- is that it didn't take itself so seriously.  KQ6 (and to some extent 3) may be an exception to this rule, but most of the games were smaller stories with plenty of humor.  They were fairy tales and fables, NOT fantasy epics.  But KQIX was clearly inspired largely by anime and by fantasy epics.  The preposterous melodrama of the scenes, the embarassing voice over, and the even worse taglines ("some secrets . . . should never be told!") make clear that they missed the spirit of KQ.

Moreover, they missed the trend of the adventure genre, which has really been about humor (Lucas Arts, QFG, LSL, SQ, Willy Beamish) or more "real world" story lines (PQ, Broken Sword, Syberia, Longest Journey).  Fantasy epics are pretty rare, and the reason is that they don't work very well as adventure games.  I'm not even sure there would be much of a market for such a game even within the adventure game crowd these days.  The only such games I remember from growing up are Dragonsphere, Beneath a Steel Sky (not fantasy, but very melodramatic all the same), maybe Rise of the Dragon (again, not fantasy).

If you read the forums, it's clear there was a coup in KQIX's development where the original writer was ousted.  I assume he had wanted to tell a more humble fairy tale, not a lame fantasy melodrama.  It's a shame he didn't manage to keep his hand in this.

People make a big fuss of wondering why they don't just change art assets and whatnot to make it a different game.  But we have no reason to think that they had a functional engine or that they had art assets they weren't showing.  What they did show was all taken from VU/Sierra IP.  If you took out the KQ name and assets, you'd be left with some lame fantasy epic with no engine and decent graphics.  Do you really think that would enjoy a tenth the popularity?

[TheCheese33]

I saw the list you got from wiki. Just more undeniable proof that Universal was being a bitch.
One thing, though. I think they decided to order a cease and detist, because next month they lose Half-Life 2. Valve is changing to EA Games, a better choice in my opinion. It's too bad that this fan project had to feel the anger of a publishing company.

Speaking of Valve, have you seen that new Ragdoll Kung-Fu game on Steam? Looks awesome!

[Rui 'Trovatore' Pires]

Interesting post, Alarcon, but I feel I have to disagree on some points - speaking for myself, naturally ("who else could you speak for?").

Also, I tend to repeat myself a lot. Sorry 'bout that.

it didn't take itself so seriously. (...) most of the games were smaller stories with plenty of humor.

You're talking about the "sense" you had of the series. That's subjective, and so's my soon-to-be-revealed argument, so we'd make a pretty poor debate if we actually wanted to arrive to any conclusion. But I digress, as I so often do.

Smaller stories with lots of humour? Ayuh, I suppose so, but I'm not sure it didn't take itself seriously. In fact, I'm not sure what you mean by that - is it because they used "fairy tales and fables" galore instead of a coherent whole? Because if so, then I have to point out that the series grew more and more coherent as they wore on, and in it's old days it was pretty much the height of sophistication - we have to view by the light of the time it was made, in that regard.

The series grew. KQ6 was certainly a grand attempt at something MORE, KQ7 was a much lighter (might be related to the art-style they used) but still more coherent adventure - no longer just the melting pot of fairy tales (which is not to say they didn't take a lot of stories and such and put it there - they did. But no longer in such a haphazard way). And KQ8 certainly attempts to become an epic.

What I mean to say with all this is, the spirit of the series is not necessarily of "not-taking-itself-seriously". On the contrary, it takes itself quite seriously but allows itself light undertones which befit the themes it chose - often fairy-tales. That doesn't necessarily exclude epics. I reccomend KQ2VGA - that wonderful remake is amazingly true to the spirit of the series, and it is certainly not what I'd describe as "not-taking-itself-seriously". I see no reason why a KQ shouldn't try and become rather epic.

Moreover, they missed the trend of the adventure genre, which has really been about humor (Lucas Arts, QFG, LSL, SQ, Willy Beamish) or more "real world" story lines (PQ, Broken Sword, Syberia, Longest Journey).  Fantasy epics are pretty rare, and the reason is that they don't work very well as adventure games.  I'm not even sure there would be much of a market for such a game even within the adventure game crowd these days.

What an odd paragraph. Surely, "trends" have nothing to do with it. Quality is more important and revealing. I'd welcome a fantasy epic. In fact, I welcomed KQ2VGA, which was pretty close to a fantasy epic.

Ask me: Would you rather play a humour fantasy game, a real life gritty game, a mixture of both, or what? I'd answer: How good are they?

In fact, maybe the fantasy genre should make a comeback. It's got so much to give.

As for the rest, I'd like to comment, I sure would, but I know precious little about the KQ9 project, so I'm in to position to discuss it.

[Mr. Mozzarella]

this is so sad ... these people have put so much work into the project and now they have to give it up - shortly before the release of part one

But I remember reading somewhere on the page that in the case they are told to stop, they might continue it with different names for persons&places ... I hope they will

jsut my 2 cents

[Alarcon]

Rui,

A few thoughts.

Obviously I'm speaking subjectively.  I'm sorry if I suggested otherwise.  Nevertheless, some subjective opinions are better formed or more persuasive than others, so I don't think we can't debate the point.

When I say the series didn't take itself too seriously, I didn't mean that it wasn't put together carefully and coherently.  I meant that it wasn't so melodramatic.  Roberta Williams was aware that the adventure game genre is absurd and that (particularly post-Victorian times) fairytales are light-hearted and faintly ridiculous.  When I say "absurd" and "ridiculous" I don't mean bad.  Just that adventure fairytales don't carry heavy-handed melodrama very well.

KQ was seldom melodramatic.  It presented serious situations (Graham losing his family), but usually without suggesting it was an doom-and-gloom state of affairs or that the world was imperilled.  Hence, Cedric could still crack jokes, Graham could still sidetrack himself with feeding honey to bears, and so forth.  That sort of environment and atmosphere is consistent with silly puzzles in a way that a more serious environment isn't.  That's one of the reason The Longest Journey sometimes rang hollow for me (the rubber ducky puzzle particularly).

When I say this is a "trend" in adventure games, I don't mean that one must be trendy, but that it makes sense to look at what has worked well and learn from it.  Lucas Arts perfected the dramatic comedy, where stories had villains, obstacles, love and betrayal and the like, but the player didn't feel like he was reading a middle schooler's favorite fantasy novels.  There was always a wink and a chuckle or a pratfall to break the melodrama.  (Loom, which I adore, is something of an exception here, but even there Bobbin was always quick with a witty aside and the environment screamed "epic" from the getgo, easing things along.)

You're right that KG2VGA moved in the epic fantasy direction too.  That is, I think, one of the reasons I was underwhelmed by it.  An extraordinarily uninteractive, melodramatic Dracula vs. wolfman plot screams lameness to me (see, e.g., Underworld, van Helsing, The Real Ghostbusters episode in Lupusville, etc.).  The only way you can carry that kind of stupid cliche is with a chuckle.  Which KQ2VGA lacked.

[jetxl]

kq could never be taken serious because they pumped the game full of fairytail references. Like a slapstick movie. Whenever there are serious dialogs, there is something random in the background.

Alarcon, there are serious medival adventure games, like Lure of the Temptress. Most of the serious adventure games are detective games wich happen in modern times. Also, medival is most of the time the realm of RPG's. Just think of the small amount of shooter that are in medival times (I can only think of Hexen and Herectic wich are both from last century).

You (always) have to calculate the demise of adventure games. Other genres have become bigger and better, adventure games have not. Adventures now-a-days are just "b-movie horror" bad. (the underdog factor is why I love adventures so much in the first place)

[Pet Terry]

The art quality is really quite low for commercial adventure games and lacks the character that almost every commercial adventure game has had.

The game was going to be freeware.

[fovmester]

.../but the sense I had of the series -- which I think is right -- is that it didn't take itself so seriously.  KQ6 (and to some extent 3) may be an exception to this rule, but most of the games were smaller stories with plenty of humor.  They were fairy tales and fables, NOT fantasy epics....

Well as far as I can remember Mask of Eternity ( nbr 8 ) was the most melodramatic game of the whole series. I don't think there's much of a joke in the entire game. Maybe the KQIX-group wanted to follow in the footsteps of that? (Dunno why they would want that though, since MoE was crap!)

[Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens]

According to Alarcon I guess anyone making a serious adventure game should just stop (since it's not a knee-slapper and therefore can't be good).  :

[Rui 'Trovatore' Pires]

Fov - Heh, KQ8 is not really a good example of the series. Beats me why they changed it so much - I saw in the "Making Of" that the swamp witch was supposed to be able to transform into a beautiful woman who'd lure you in, and so on.

This feels much more like KQ, doesn't it? But in the FINISHED version, the witch is just another enemy you have to kill.

Somewhere along the line KQ8 got lost. Nice game, poor KQ game - IMHO. I'm not sure we could count it as an example.

[Alarcon]

According to Alarcon I guess anyone making a serious adventure game should just stop (since it's not a knee-slapper and therefore can't be good).Ã,  :

1) Well, any game that purports to be part of a series that was somewhat tongue-in-cheek and didn't take itself seriously shouldn't wind up being lame melodrama.

2) As I said above, games set in the real world seem to be amenable to serious stories, but one has to be careful with puzzle design in such cases.

3) In theory you could have a serious fantasy game, but it would require very, very good puzzle design and solid writing to avoid feeling ridiculous.  (I happened to be very fond, for example, of Dragonsphere, which didn't have great puzzle design but at least designed its puzzles not to seem ridiculous.)

4) No one should ever make a melodramatic game.  Such games are invariably lame and always wind up being extremely uninteractive.

[jetxl]

...
4) No one should ever make a melodramatic game. Such games are invariably lame and always wind up being extremely uninteractive.

* jet  agrees with Alarcon.

Eighter make is funny as hell or serious as cancer. Sure, there are times to joke around, but don't change the atmoshere of the moment.


Alarcon, you did know that kq9 was independent, right?