Mohammed cartoons

Nacho · Sat 04/02/2006 21:40:20

I think we all know what I am talking about. Even the muslims members of the forum will agree that no cartoon, no matter if the artist painted a duck or Hitler f*cking the dead corpse of your mother, deserves to set a price for the head of the artist.

This people with torches burning embassies is really mad, what the hell is going on in his heads? A general wave of indignation of this caliber is totally out of place. I wouldn't move a finger is the "Gaza times" publish a porno image of Christ and Mary Magdalene, or the most annoying thing they can imagine...

Note that I am criticising just the angry mob. I am not attacking the 99.9% of the "normal" muslims in the world.

The REAL discussion is about apologising. The newspaper had apologised, but the governments claim that, whereas they could desire a sincere apology, they can't use their authority to oficially ask for an apology. I agree. Freedom of speech is important. What do you think?

Haddas · Sat 04/02/2006 21:42:47

I think that attacking a whole nation based on the action of a couple of people is the reasonable thing to go about it.

JimmyShelter · Sat 04/02/2006 21:44:48

What I think is strange, is that a lot of muslims will say that they shouldn't be judged by the acts of radical muslims, but that a the same time a lot of muslims are judgeing a whole country for the act of just one newspaper.

Well, not strange, most people are hypocritical...

EditL what haddas said basically

Pet Terry · Sat 04/02/2006 21:46:22

I agree, Farlander.

I find it silly that it was a Danish newspaper that published the drawings so they are now boycotting every single Danish product + Norway and Sweden as well! I don't know if they are boycotting Finland yet but I seriously hope they won't.

passer-by · Sat 04/02/2006 21:48:59

I don't think these cartoons have something to do with the reactions, they are only a feeble excuse which occured at the right moment for political gains and if this situation Ã,Â continues nobody will remember how it started but they will keep building on this new reason for tension.

Squinky · Sat 04/02/2006 21:50:42

Quote from: Petteri on Sat 04/02/2006 21:46:22
I agree, Farlander.

I find it silly that it was a Danish newspaper that published the drawings so they are now boycotting every single Danish product + Norway and Sweden as well! I don't know if they are boycotting Finland yet but I seriously hope they won't.

Freedom Fries.

Nacho · Sat 04/02/2006 21:56:36

Petteri: Your fear for Finland is justified... The Paquistani foreign affairs Minister has called 9 embassadors to explain his complains: France, Germany, Italy, Spain, Switzerland, Low Contries, Hungary, Norway and Czech Republic.Ã,Â Ã,Â $:-\$ Totally crazy.

Bartimaeus · Sat 04/02/2006 22:00:37

Holy crap this is such a major overreaction.
Its a comic!
Omfg!11!!!

Gord10 · Sat 04/02/2006 22:03:12

I think I must say a few things as I am a Muslim member of the forum.

I must say that I felt really bad when I saw that comics on net. Alright, I am not someone too over-conservative as I told in another thread, but it doesn't mean I wouldn't be very happy to see them. You may find me strange; but Mohammed is very important for the Muslim world. This kind of serious things require respect.

But on the other hand; I find wrong what all people in other Muslim countries. I do agree with all of you about this. Furthermore; I know some of you Westerners sometimes make fun of with your own prophet Jesus Christ, anyway (by the way, we do believe that Jesus is a prophet, too). All the over-anger and boycotting is useless, I think. Only asking the newspaper an apology would be enough.

Please PM me if you want to learn more opinions of me.

Haddas · Sat 04/02/2006 22:07:28

Ah yes. But to Christians, Jesus is not a prophet, but the saviour, the one through whom you wust go to get te heaven. He is what separates Jews from Christians.

Damien · Sat 04/02/2006 22:11:03

"There are many causes I am prepared to die for but no causes I am prepared to kill for."

"As soon as we lose the moral basis, we cease to be religious. There is no such thing as religion over-riding morality. Man, for instance, cannot be untruthful, cruel or incontinent and claim to have God on his side."

-Mahatma Gandhi

Just a lil' something to seperate the beilevers from the hypocrites.

HillBilly · Sat 04/02/2006 22:15:51

Quote from: Farlander on Sat 04/02/2006 21:40:20Note that I am criticising just the angry mob. I am not attacking the 99.9% of the "normal" muslims in the world.

That 0.01% of "crazy ass" Muslims did a nice job burning down the Norwegian and Danish embassy, start a riot in KÃ¸benhavn, boycotting Scandinavian food products, burn our national flags, threatening Scandinavians down at Gaza who's only there to help out and other rather rude acts against people who happen to be from the same country as some cartoonists.

Y'know, I really try to be tolerant of other people's religion, but this makes it rather hard for me.

It seems like alot of muslims place their religion over everything, but they need to understand that alot of western people don't take religion seriously(or look at it in another way), and will do things that might be looked upon as insulting. That's what got Theo Van Gogh killed.

I don't defend these cartoons, but I defend every right to publish them.

EDIT: Sweet crap, just look at this:

http://www.vg.no/video/videoplayer/player.hbs?id=2472

So I guess this is kind of true:

"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-- Blaise Pascal

passer-by · Sat 04/02/2006 22:24:04

Quote from: HillBilly on Sat 04/02/2006 22:15:51
to understand that alot of western people don't take religion seriously(or look at it in another way),

Unless someone other but them criticises it. Westerners don't want religious discriminations in their schools, provided that christian symbols are omnipresent, of course. They may laugh with homemade cartoons of their local clergy, but they don't tolerate other nations drawing tehm. I can't see any difference with the current muslim cause.
This is why I believe it is just...politics.

HillBilly · Sat 04/02/2006 22:29:49

Quote from: cp on Sat 04/02/2006 22:24:04

Unless someone other but them criticises it. Westerners don't want religious discriminations in their schools, provided that christian symbols are omnipresent, of course. They may laugh with homemade cartoons of their local clergy, but they don't tolerate other nations drawing tehm. I can't see any difference with the current muslim cause.
This is why I believe it is just...politics.

I think you're thinking of the United States, which is pretty bible humping, yes. But I was thinking more in the direction of Scandinavia. From my experience, we're pretty low on the whole respect thing.

Sinitrena · Sat 04/02/2006 22:30:30

I can understand that muslims get angry because of this cartoons, but nothing justifies threatening people or burning embassys.
What I can't understand are the newspapers. All right, one newspaper printed these cartoons and people get angry. Why do other newspapers print these cartoons as well? Is it that difficult to respect other peoples religion and feelings?

passer-by · Sat 04/02/2006 22:45:08

Quote from: HillBilly on Sat 04/02/2006 22:29:49
I think you're thinking of the United States,

No, I 'm thinking of Europe.
Personally, the only thing that would bother me about a cartoon, any cartoon, would be an uninspired caption, but again, I 'm the kind of person who thinks "If you can't make a joke of it, then it's not serious enough on its own"

And, Sinitrena, when were newspapers famous for their tactful manners if it's money and top stories involved? Cartoons sell, discussions about the cartoons sell, criticism and political manoeuvres because of the discussions about the cartoons sell...etc

Pet Terry · Sat 04/02/2006 22:54:26

Actually, one of the Finnish top newspapers has been pondering whether to publish the drawings or not, in fear of getting attacked because of them. As far as I know, they haven't published them yet. Same for Finnish television channels, they have been very careful with the matter.

Haddas · Sat 04/02/2006 23:08:44

As they should be. Even with freedom of speech, conflict is ALWAYS the last option.

If you can avoid trouble then why get into it?

passer-by · Sat 04/02/2006 23:15:58

Quote from: Haddas on Sat 04/02/2006 23:08:44
As they should be. Even with freedom of speech, conflict is ALWAYS the last option.

If you can avoid trouble then why get into it?

"Use your enemy's hand to catch a snake", let your antagonists publish troublesome content and then follow up with controversial discussions...

fred · Sun 05/02/2006 02:03:29

When some (religious or other) dogma is demanding self-censorship of me, I think the trouble is already there, and it's no longer a matter of getting into or not.

Conflict is what the free press and our tradition of political debate/parlamentarism is about - avoiding it is a quick surrender to whoever threatens to become offended, imagine a future like that...