"If I Were The Devil" -Paul Harvey

Helm · Mon 13/02/2006 14:15:43

I sense my racism is not taken seriously enough.

Here's a black man's heart. Arrived through mailorder earlier today.

ManicMatt · Mon 13/02/2006 17:25:53

Wow! Is someone going to get a real heart for valentines day? From none other than Helm, voted as sexiest AGSer by at least one person?

Squinky · Tue 14/02/2006 00:44:08

I'm willing to bet that one Agser was Harvey, the Goat man....

MarVelo · Tue 14/02/2006 01:31:04

Quote from: RickJ on Sun 12/02/2006 21:10:48
black people should all die in horrible agony unless they convert to being devout white people".

Hows that work?

The Inquisitive Stranger · Tue 14/02/2006 01:34:23

Michael Jackson.

Squinky · Tue 14/02/2006 02:40:48

Quote from: taffytom on Tue 14/02/2006 01:31:04
Quote from: RickJ on Sun 12/02/2006 21:10:48
black people should all die in horrible agony unless they convert to being devout white people".

Hows that work?

Remember when superman gave up his powers to be with Lois Lane? Pretty similair....

marlamoe · Tue 14/02/2006 09:23:56

As a woman, I agree with these sentiments.Ã,Â Women who pose for magazines, choose to be in Porn flicks, so on, did so knowing they would be drooled on by men, well and sometimes other women.Ã,Â They DID bring objectification upon themselves.

P.S.Ã,Â Finding this thread is like finding "good eats" on a tennessee highway.Ã,Â No matter how you cook the meat, it still leaves a bad taste in your mouth. Interesting to say the least.

Quote from: Glacies Akumayo on Wed 08/02/2006 00:59:12
Though I see your point here Stranger, I'm gonna have to agree with voh...Ã,Â they brought it on themselves, they can't feel bad for it.Ã,Â As for the person doing the... "acts" and objectifying, are they really objectifying if the photo/picture is MEANT as an object?Ã,Â This is a difficult subject... so many angles to glance at the topic...

esper · Tue 14/02/2006 10:10:14

::kicks self squarely in nuts, then stops momentarily to allow everyone time to visualize this::

That's what you get for going back into the meat of this thread!

Helm · Tue 14/02/2006 14:42:27

Well some people in the porn industry obviously are there because they enjoy whatever the process makes them feel, call it objectification or whatever else. Honestly this isn't about porn people only anyway, I've never been with a woman that wanted to be treated like 'a person of equal rights, a liberated woman and a human! in bed anyway. Some form of objectification is in effect...

Anyway others get there to pay the rent and stay there because they also come to enjoy it. Others stay because they like the money and can't scale back into something less. God, this is so oversimplifying I feel like punching myself. I can't say what percentage of women (I'm not even going to discuss men) loathe being in the porn industry, but such a percentage must exist. It gets scary when you move away from american high-profile, clean (to the degree where cocaine for breakfast is clean, at least) porn industry and go to other places of the world where both recruitment and practices are a lot less savioury. Should I go 'that serves you right! you LOVE being objectified, huh?!' to a czech girl that was pushed on the streets as a prostitute from 15, and then recruited into the 'industry' at 18? Does she know any better? Where's the distinction, the willpower behind the 'choice' for which she should now reap the benefits?

MrColossal · Tue 14/02/2006 16:15:07

First the joke:

Quote from: Helm on Tue 14/02/2006 14:42:27
I've never been with a woman...

HAW HAW

Now the real post:

Quote from: Helm on Tue 14/02/2006 14:42:27
I've never been with a woman that wanted to be treated like 'a person of equal rights, a liberated woman and a human! in bed anyway. Some form of objectification is in effect...

Which raises a question that I've had, all these new age hipsters (I'm not having sex I'm making love to my partner's aura!) and people like them, or who share certain thoughts with them... I wonder if they ever just want to

Spoiler

fuck.

[close]

Screw the auras and tantric meditation, screw the staring longingly into each other's eyes as you feel the spirit of Gaia well up inside you and two become one part ... Just throw your partner on the bed and viciously penis for a half hour and then eat some left over chinese food.

Helm · Tue 14/02/2006 16:26:16

Maybe the new age stuff (which I won't dismiss outright) are after-the-fact rationalizations for people without strong libido, who never actually reach the mindset of "ME WANT WOMAN FLESH". Generally a lot of 'pleasant ideas' and nice words that people say about sexual practices or how they should be, like open relationships, multiple partners, no belonging etc break down in practice exactly because sex is about primordial drives, it's about ownership, about domination, about jealously, control, cruelty even. Lust hasn't changed a lot, the basic instincts of people haven't changed a lot, and by talking a lot about 'how things should be between men and women' I don't see much change occuring. I just see people struggling with different sets of identities.

It's actually pretty schizoid that we (well, I for example, but a lot are like that) feel compelled to treat women with respect and all that I've been socially programmed in social situations, and then I find myself reverting to pretty straightforward animalism in other situations. It's fun, but it's also masking reality in a very big way.

MrColossal · Tue 14/02/2006 16:46:26

But you revert to animalism in many other aspects of life, not just GIMME SEX, I wouldn't say you're masking reality when you repress the urge to shit in public... But you're probably not talking about that. However, if shitting in public is your sexual release... Well...

I think the biggest change between men and women to happen is they learned then women like orgasms too. But I'm still not convinced of this!

http://www.theonion.com/content/node/29215

Helm · Tue 14/02/2006 17:23:21

The masking reality part is in that nobody's trying to dress up pooping in so many words that people are trying to dress up sexual urges, and the handling of them.

The Inquisitive Stranger · Tue 14/02/2006 18:05:28

Interesting...

I know that a lot of women don't give a rat's ass about objectification or being treated like a human being or whatever. Often, I read women's magazines and am mystified at the fact that they (very generally speaking) tend to advertise that beauty and sexiness are the highest ideals one should want to reach. Not that I'm saying that magazines are brainwashing people or anything; on the contrary, they reflect a sentiment that's already out there, and has been during much of history. Women want to be sexy... don't they?

I'm personally not a very feminine person. I'm a geek, after all. I'd rather read books than shop for clothes, and I'd rather tinker with my computer than experiment with makeup. I've been in relationships before, but I've always valued the mental connection I had with said people than the pure animal lust of it all. The sex instinct has always been there, but I find that it's not very important, and not a very overpowering force in my life like it seems to be for a lot of people.

I admit, when I encounter women who "bring objectification upon themselves", I don't understand them. My first instinct is to think they're stupid, or that they've been unconsciously influenced by our male-dominated society. Still, I can't read people's minds, and have no right to make such judgements. But that doesn't stop me from not understanding.

I also admit that I make it sound as if there's some sort of beauty-intelligence dichotomy. I don't really mean it that way. I'm sure that there are smart women out there who like to be sexy. Still, intelligence is a multi-faceted description that applies to many different things; even IQ tests are controversial in their limitation. What I really mean when I say "intelligence" is geekiness. When most people think of geeks, they think of guys, and they think of physical unattractiveness. For a girl to be a geek is the kiss of death because (again, speaking very generally) there is more pressure for girls to be attractive than guys. After all, ugly men can be quite popular among women, as long as they're rich. But when a man encounters a woman who makes more money than he does, he often feels intimidated, and his manhood seems to be undermined. (I'm not a man, though, so correct me if I'm wrong.)

So, the question (amidst all the generalizations) is... where exactly do I fit in?

Helm · Tue 14/02/2006 18:25:51

This isn't about sexiness, really. Although yes, most women feel pressured (or want to, or a combination, I'm not going to try to understand) to appear pretty and available and whatnot. Men are available by default, it seems to be the instinctual status of things. We were discussing how women and men can talk all this shit about sexuality in theory, and in the end the sexual aspect of a relationship usually strongly depends on 'bad' traits like domination, objectification, control, pure animal lust etc. Of course there's existential loneliness, where, compassion, understanding, a vivid mental connection with the other person are much more important, but we were discussing the sexual aspect of things. Which doesn't mean they're not interconnected in rediculously difficult to understand ways...

As to femininity, geekiness, I can only speak for myself, but it's not clothing or make up that makes the difference, it's how a person carries herself, little pre-lingual things they do that I won't try to explain that ignite desire. I find it kind of sad that much of this modern disease that is projecting availability through clothing, make up, mannerism and whatnot simply fails on me because I seem to be looking for other things that are automatically there. The way a person looks at you does a million more things than their chosen outfit for the day. I say, don't sweat the 'sexiness' aspect of it, at all. You'll be sexy to some people anyway, and from that section, some you'll find attractive as well. You can't really do much more than that. Even if you try to project an artificial image, when you get in a relationship after a week or so you simply forget what you were trying to project and you're back to same-old you, so if someone's going to stick around, it's going to be for you, so why mislead him anyway?

Maybe you'll understand women that desire a degree of objectification more when you'll find this to work for you as well. Might not ever, but I doubt it. I put it up to your past record of relationships (not that I know much about it, but guessing) than there actually being something significantly amiss with you. Passion and desire and all that cannot be quantified, but lack of such can be quantified to fuck and it can paint a pretty unpleasant picture. Don't sweat it.

About guys and their money... I have to say that's a pretty base way to look at it. Attractive men are about being exceptional in many ways, about rising above of the pack. That Simpsons episode comes to mind (Bart:"what is it about the good-looking rebel that plays by his own rules?" Every female in proximity lets a lustful sigh ) Money's a way, but it's not only that. I've never felt threatened by the presence of a wealthy man in my life, nor will I ever. I've felt threatened by awesome artists, people who are more knowledgable than me, very handsome men, better guitarists, even people with longer hair than mine (not that I ever meet that last type any more) but more money? No.

Where do you fit in? Where everybody else does. You'll fit in just fine. There's compatible people to you, you're compatible to other people etc etc You're experiencing down-time, don't overintellectualize it.

lo_res_man · Tue 14/02/2006 20:03:44

"a brave new world, and all the people in it."
... (ithink thats how it goes)
Anywho, what I find interesting is the tippy balance society has, in that one) men have a lot of business power, (glass ceilings and all that) however in the sexual world Woman have lot of power, BEACAUSE of all the sexuality around, men want sex, thats the primel drive in the back of our heads. while woman nw a days both flaunt there appeal, yet are protected by laws and feminest mores.basicly it feels to me lke living in one big tease. Society if you ask me is changing faster than it can handle. I mean, flight to moon landing to pc in 100 years is RAPID change. how will society cope? Someday, sooner or later, society is going to collapse. Face it, it always happens. It happened to the romens the greeks the egyption, the maya, the inca, EVEREYBODY. MAybe not in our day maybe not in our grandchildrens day, but it WILL happen. How will we be remebered? As a magic age when man went to the moon, there were cures for most sickness, and people could FLY?! or as an age of were trhere were magic kings who fed off the work of children, who ravaged the land? who knows? If we have society collapse like the romens, english could become the new latin. who knows how we shall be remebered. it doesn't matter really. but it was a thought that rambled round my head and I thought I would share it.

Helm · Tue 14/02/2006 20:05:19

Go away.

MarVelo · Tue 14/02/2006 20:12:11

The only reason I dont shit in public is the fact that people would think im weird and it would make the street even dirtier than it already is.

The Inquisitive Stranger · Tue 14/02/2006 20:18:36

Quote from: lo_res_man on Tue 14/02/2006 20:03:44
...however in theÃ,Â sexual world Woman have lot of power, BEACAUSE of all the sexuality around, men want sex, thats the primel drive in the back of our heads. while woman nw a days both flaunt there appeal, yet are protected by laws and feminest mores.basicly it feels to me lke living in one big tease.

What if I don't want power? What if I don't flaunt my appeal? If men find me attractive, then it's their fault. I'm honestly not even trying.

Quote from: Helm on Tue 14/02/2006 18:25:51
About guys and their money... I have to say that's a pretty base way to look at it. Attractive men are about being exceptional in many ways, about rising above of the pack. That Simpsons episode comes to mind (Bart:"what is it about the good-looking rebel that plays by his own rules?" Every female in proximity lets a lustful sigh ) Money's a way, but it's not only that. I've never felt threatened by the presence of a wealthy man in my life, nor will I ever. I've felt threatened by awesome artists, people who are more knowledgable than me, very handsome men, better guitarists, even people with longer hair than mine (not that I ever meet that last type any more) but more money? No.

Okay, then if it were a woman who, say, was a better artist, or more intelligent, or whatever threatens you, would their attractiveness, to you, be hindered?

As for the rest of the stuff you said, I'm definitely all about being myself. I don't see how I could possibly be anyone else. I guess it means I'm doing the right thing, and I should just hang in there. What a comforting notion indeed.

MrColossal · Tue 14/02/2006 20:31:23

As for being yourself, maybe you can compare notes with Squinky?