Democratic Socialism

Akumayo · Sat 04/11/2006 04:29:29

I know most of you aren't from the United States, but for some reason, I feel the need to post this.

I've become incredibly infatuated with Socialism. The overthrow of the capitalist empire! It makes me want to participate in an armed rebellion just to read about it. Anyhow, I was wondering if any of you had opposition/support for Socialism, and particularly, the SPUSA. If so, I'd like to discuss it.

-Regards, Comrade Akumayo

[Cameron] · Sat 04/11/2006 04:39:20

I've been fascinated with communism for a long time, Guevara is a great hero of mine. However I'm realistic in knowing people are much too greedy to have communism work. It's why its failed so much. It's not a fault of the system, just the people. I'm even realistic in knowing I myself do enjoy many aspects of capitalism. Next year I will be voting for Australia's Socialist Party though.

Akumayo · Sat 04/11/2006 04:51:49

Neat! I wish US's Socialist Party was strong enough to put up big candidates... my state doesn't even HAVE a socialist party. I can't vote anyhow... the voting age should be 15... I am offended...

earlwood · Sat 04/11/2006 04:59:21

Quote from: [Cameron] on Sat 04/11/2006 04:39:20It's not a fault of the system, just the people.

I think that communism's inability to work without the mobilization of some ideal, morally superior supermen with a "work for the common good" mindset is a major fault of the system.

Akumayo · Sat 04/11/2006 05:00:43

But Socialism in general is stronlgy against the types of communism that have been implemented in the world thus far (Leninism/Marxism).

earlwood · Sat 04/11/2006 05:30:00

Every government is socialistic to a certian degree, are you referring more to a utoptian socialistic government? I'll assume you are for sake of argument.

After everyone voluntarily forfits their personal belongings, and everyone gets "equal opportunity", what's their incentive to keep on trucking? Communism is a lot like Anarchy. In the sense that it's a cute idea, in a hands-across-the-water, fairytale way. Capitalism works because people love to have stuff.

On another note, Cameron, why would you vote for socialism, if you know people are far too imperfect for it work?

Akumayo · Sat 04/11/2006 05:31:21

I envision a Socialistic society that is Socialistic almost solely because it has overthrown capitalism, which I strogly disagree with.

Khris · Sat 04/11/2006 05:34:02

The basic idea might sound great to somebody living in Utopia, but this is the real world. And here, socialism failed. Again and again.

Here's a popular joke about it: What would happen if the Sahara desert would be ruled by socialists? For ten years, nothing. Then they'd start running low on sand.

Akumayo · Sat 04/11/2006 05:36:46

Socialism has never been given a proper chance. You can't count the USSR or Soviet Russia, they were/are too influenced by communism. Holland and Canada are good examples though.

[Cameron] · Sat 04/11/2006 05:36:57

Earlwood, because it'll never rise to power, and that way when the person in charge screws up or does something I'm against, and that always happens, I can definitely say I didn't vote for them and don't support them.

Helm · Sat 04/11/2006 07:14:36

A lot of people become communists because they hate what their country has become. Others became communists because they loved their country.

InCreator · Sat 04/11/2006 07:35:39

Quote from: [Cameron] on Sat 04/11/2006 04:39:20
I've been fascinated with communism for a long time, Guevara is a great hero of mine. However I'm realistic in knowing people are much too greedy to have communism work.

Cameron very clearly pointed out what's wrong with the ideas of socialism and communism.

I was BORN during communist regime and remember it quite well, though I was only 8 years old when it ended.
I personally love socialism (with its branch, communism) as a way for people to co-exist. With government handling ALL science, technology, etc research & progress and people all working together to supply with needed funds and manpower sounds like a progressive way to live for humankind. Way more progressive than these people working just to fill some capitalist's greedy pockets.

But that... just doesn't work. Because people don't really want communism.
And that's what spoiled this extremely powerful step of the last century - the Soviet Union.
If all people were in the same boat, the horrors of the Union wouldn't have to exist. Like building everything on heavy propaganda, market blockades, absolute state control and endless repressions of those suspected to not co-operate.

And then there wasn't those abandoned houses in my home city, where 1x1 cubic meter rooms (cells) can be found, with 0.3 meters thick floor of human droppings turned into concrete. Yes, the reminders of KGB...

Communist state must have only one leader. A powerful one. Like Stalin was.
But it's a bit too much power for one human being. So whole thing sucks.
All kind of democratic mess ruins the thing.
Because democracy is opportunity to have different points of view. But socialism has only one.
So democracy and socialism WON'T work together. Never.

I don't want communism back. Fact is, I'm simply too lazy for this. But a true socialist must be hardcore worker.

Like socialism? Study bees. Best example of this thing in work.

Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens · Sat 04/11/2006 08:19:03

The only situation Communism has proven to excel historically is in a constant state of war, and that is precisely why Stalin got Soviet Russia's war machine going and did his best to keep it that way with the Cold War. Fortunately (or unfortunately) it does not do well at all in peace time, whereas Capitalism can function in both situations because there's always profit to be made.

Helm · Sat 04/11/2006 08:22:09

Capitalism functions great in a state of peace by fuelling and being fuelled by the regurgitated atrocity of manufactured war elsewhere. Please check facts, write back, thanks.

Akumayo · Sat 04/11/2006 08:23:40

Communism != Socialism

Helm:
Yes, yes it does. However, capitalism also opens the doors for over powerful corrupt corporations, organizations, and individuals. Look at WalMart! It's sickening!

Helm · Sat 04/11/2006 08:25:52

Please read what I said again. Then apply those critical thinking skills on whatever else material about politics you might be perusing at this time period, it will benefit you.

Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens · Sat 04/11/2006 09:08:16

QuoteCapitalism functions great in a state of peace by fuelling and being fuelled by the regurgitated atrocity of manufactured war elsewhere. Please check facts, write back, thanks.

Where does this disagree with my statement, and why do you find it necessary that I check my facts? List sources for your claims before asking people to qualify their own, thanks.

Helm · Sat 04/11/2006 09:40:19

Quotewhereas Capitalism can function in both situations because there's always profit to be made.

I'll let Las hit you with a pile of numbers. Capitalism cannot operate without some war happening, somewhere that is to its benefit. I was objecting on the 'both' part of your statement.

SSH · Sat 04/11/2006 10:11:39

Communism only works when people are not greedy or lazy. Capitalism only works when people are greedy and lazy. Which do you think people are?

Also, arguing that capitalism only functions when there is a war is hardly evidence based, as since the invention of the wheel there hasn't been a significant period of time when there hasn't been a war going on somewhere.

Helm · Sat 04/11/2006 10:20:51

But there's territorial wars, and there's wars manufactured and clearly run for the benefit of capitalist economy. I'm not exactly brining ground-breaking controversal news to the table here.