Church of Scientology II

[Tuomas]

My grandpa used to do that too. He'd invite them in and sit them down, then offer some whiskey, which they'd never accept, so he'd have one for himself. Then he would argue with them. He said they once called their "leader" or whatever to discuss, but after a while they didn't come again. Though knowing my grandpa, I feel sorry for the poor buggers

We don't have many scientology churches in Finland, as for as I know. Oh yes, it doesn't have the legal status of a religion in Finland, that's why. Anyway, I saw one in Berlin, and it was really interesting. Men in suits handing out funny leaflets to people. Though quite a lot of things in berlin were weird.

[Sam.]

Do not worry, Davy has been in IRC, he has just forgotten about his post. His mind is too full of poetry and happiness.

[Nikolas]

I just visited the official site...

quote 1:

Man consists of three parts. The first of these is the spririt, called in Scientology the thetan (from the Greek letter theta, meaning "thought" or "spirit"), which is the individual himself.

The second of these parts is the mind. The thetan uses his mind as a communication and control system between himself and his environment.

The third of these parts is the body. The body is not the person.

The most important of the three parts of man is the thetan, which is the spirit, or you.

I simply love it when people try greek. Theta is a LETTER! The sign of the letter is Θ, οr θ, an as far as I know there isn't any further meaning to a LETTER!

1st bullshit then!

...Through Scientology, a person realizes that his life and influence extend far beyond himself. By understanding each of these dynamics and their relationship, one to the other, he is able to do so, and thus increase survival on all of these dynamics...

That we bellong to a society? WOW! big news!

40.0 Serenity of Beingness
30.0 Postulates
22.0 Games
20.0 Action
8.0 Exhilaration
6.0 Aesthetics
4.0 Enthusiasm
3.5 Cheerfulness
3.3 Strong Interest
3.0 Conservatism
2.9 Mild Interest
2.8 Contented
2.6 Disinterested
2.5 Boredom
2.4 Monotony
2.0 Antagonism
1.9 Hostility
1.8 Pain
1.5 Anger
1.4 Hate
1.3 Resentment
1.2 No Sympathy
1.15 Unexpressed Resentment
1.1 Covert Hostility
1.02 Anxiety
1.0 Fear
0.98 Despair
0.96 Terror
0.94 Numb
0.9 Sympathy
0.8 Propitiation
0.5 Grief
0.375 Making Amends
0.3 Undeserving
0.2 Self-Abasement
0.1 Victim
0.07 Hopeless
0.05 Apathy
0.03 Useless
0.01 Dying
0.0 Body Death

Hmmm... body death appears to be worst than Serenity of Beingness. How interesting!

We live in a chemical-oriented society. The past century's technological advances have produced many damaging by-products that threaten well-being â€" from the smog in the air we breathe to the thousands of chemical additives in the food we eat. Moreover, the use of street drugs has proliferated since the mid-20th century at all levels of society, as well as prescription of mind and mood-altering drugs.

Drugs, pollutants and other chemicals are essentially poisons and take their toll on a person's body by depleting its stores of vitamins and minerals, leading to susceptibility to other health problems.

Quite in addition to physiological damage, drugs and toxins decrease mental alertness and perception and can contribute to many undesirable states, from unfeeling to hostile. This biochemical factor is a barrier to spiritual freedom.

Well... that's a first! Indeed! I never knew that!

L. Ron Hubbard discovered that drug and chemical residues are stored and trapped in the fatty tissues of the body and remain long after a person has been off drugs...

MY GOD! Ron is my hero! He discovered that drug and chemical residues are stored and trapped in the fatty tissues of the body and remain long after a person has been off drugs! So... if I stop smoking, for example, today, tomorrow I should be done, excpet scientology says otherwise? right?

The Electropsychometer, or E-Meter measures the mental state or change of state of a person, helping the auditor locate areas of spiritual distress or travail so they can be addressed and handled in a session. The E-Meter does not in itself do anything to a person. It is a highly sensitive instrument that reacts to changes in mental activity.

COOL! Get me one as well! I'd love a machine that measures, but does nothing actually! mental state, huh? I would be immensly interested to see what exactly it measures... I'll visit their shop (eshop.. I hope they have one! )

We instinctively revere the great artist, painter or musician and society as a whole looks upon them as not quite ordinary beings. And they are not. They are a cut above man. He who can truly communicate to others is a higher being who builds new worlds.

Thanks you! At last, someone recognises my non superiority as a composer, but the fact I communicate! YAY!

Man has never known, except in some of the rare miracle workers he regarded as saints, how to bring relief to various ills. The secret was that one is connecting oneself to what he abhors. To be able to easily bring relief to oneself and others from the hostilities and sufferings of life is a skill man has seen only in healers.

healers=doctors?

Man is chained to the upsets in his past. He has never understood why he felt so upset and misunderstood about his family or people or situations. Most men dwell perpetually on troubles they have had. They lead sad lives. Freedom from the upsets of the past with the ability to face the future is almost an unknown condition to man.

Face the unknown.. face the future... yes... the thing you don't know. Face it! NOW!

Man can seldom handle POWER. He retreats from it or abuses it. When he has it he often misdirects it. One can, in Scientology, acquire the ability to stably handle power.

Interesting indeed, and truthful! Now, the fact that scientology can help some handle power is only... dangerous! And foolish! And bullshit!

Lastly:

The Aims of Scientology
A civilization without insanity, without criminals and without war, where the able can prosper and honest beings can have rights, and where man is free to rise to greater heights, are the aims of Scientology.

First announced to an enturbulated world in 1950, these aims are well within the grasp of our technology.

Nonpolitical in nature, Scientology welcomes any individual of any creed, race or nation.

We seek no revolution. We seek only evolution to higher states of being for the individual and for society. We are achieving our aims.

After endless millennia of ignorance about himself, his mind and the universe, a breakthrough has been made for man.

Other efforts man has made have been surpassed.

The combined truths of fifty thousand years of thinking men, distilled and amplified by new discoveries about man, have made for this success.

We welcome you to Scientology. We only expect of you your help in achieving our aims and helping others. We expect you to be helped.

Scientology is the most vital movement on Earth today. (<----- WOW!)

In a turbulent world, the job is not easy. But then, if it were, we wouldn't have to be doing it.

We respect man and believe he is worthy of help. We respect you and believe you, too, can help.

Scientology does not owe its help. We have done nothing to cause us to propitiate. Had we done so, we would not now be bright enough to do what we are doing.

Man suspects all offers of help. He has often been betrayed, his confidence shattered. Too frequently he has given his trust and been betrayed. We may err, for we build a world with broken straws. But we will never betray your faith in us so long as you are one of us.

The sun never sets on Scientology. (<---hmm?)

And may a new day dawn for you, for those you love and for man.

Our aims are simple, if great.

And we will succeed, and are succeeding at each new revolution of the Earth.

Your help is acceptable to us. (<--- financial you mean?)

Our help is yours. (<-spiritual you mean:)

L. Ron Hubbard

PRAISE RON!

All together now!









-------------------------

Well I spent quite some time in this thread, but I really think it was worth it.

I am not proving any point really, as my own writtings in this post are buillshit as well, but really I hardly felt it was worth the effort to counter answer all the quotes I used.

I am all for people to think differently and that personal POV are important, etc, but still!

SCEINTOLOGY official site is full of BULLSHIT!

and in all honesty, I've never spoken such for any religion (you know I haven't), but this is just ludictrous! Ridiculous! Bullshit!

If anyone believes in this "religion" (which btw, doesn't seem to be one, so it would be fine for me to say it's bullshit), then speak now, otherwise don't post

[evenwolf]

I'm sure scientology wasn't the first religion in which faith & a pyramid scheme lived side by side.

Scientology is a good lesson on humans and their needs.  Weak people are offered strength and in this case, a 12 step program.

[MillsJROSS]

I don't really see that scientology is that horrible of a religious based on it's ideals for man. Maybe it's the Heinlein in me that allows me to accept that they can't be any worse than any other religion. The only thing I actively don't care for in their religion is the pyramid scheme. However, it only seems really bad because it's more or less part of their religion, but in most communities it's people with wealth that become the upper tiers of their religion anyway. 

I haven't really researched their religion enough to have any true dislike of them. I'm sure, as with any religion, that some of the things they strive for are good and decent. However, as with any religion, not everything necessarily is going to sit well with me.

I know people often say that if you're having problems it's easy to get brainwashed into this religion, but I don't see how that's different than any other religion. There's plenty of born again Christians who were at a low point and found something through religion. I don't see how this is that much different. The only difference is that this religion is only 50 or so years old and other religions number in the 1000's. As long as they don't have a crusade to convert people, and then maim them if they don't agree with their philosophy, they're cool with me.

-MillsJROSS

[Nikolas]

Thing is that I would expect from a religion some kind of deapth, which scientology seriously lacking in the site at least. I mean a religion better have an explanation about everything right? Scientology was mroe of 100$ per hour phychotherapy than anything else... It didn't provide anything but meer ideas on how one should leave.

[evenwolf]

Nikolas, your langauge lends me to think you visited & tried it out?   

It seems like they have plenty of depth for a religion.  Its just so new, arbitrary and cult-like that any of the depth should be given credibility.

[Nikolas]

No I didn't actually. I wouldn't bother.

something about the whole thing bothers me.

I did spent, though, quite some time in the official site, which gave me the impression on the above 2 posts I did earlier on... I haven't met anyone who actually believes in that, so I don't know. For all I know they could be awesmoe guys...

But still for me a religion has something "else", something different, something that science is lacking, and here in all honesty, the only impression I got was exactly what I said. A phychotherapy class of sorts. Nothing else. Apart from phychological ideas to make you feel better (which btw, have the sort of marketing like "101 ways to feel better", or "Dr. blah and his ways of feeling and living a better life"). I would definately accept it as such a book (like for example Dr. rooths books on sexuality, etc), but not as a religion really...

Still my impressions are based on the internet and the information I found there, nothing else. It's just that they are SO strong impressions...

[voh]

MY GOD! Ron is my hero! He discovered that drug and chemical residues are stored and trapped in the fatty tissues of the body and remain long after a person has been off drugs! So... if I stop smoking, for example, today, tomorrow I should be done, excpet scientology says otherwise? right?

Uhm, if you stop smoking today, tomorrow there's still going to be an amount of the toxins in cigarettes in your system. It takes a while before it's all broken down. It's not saying you wouldn't've quit smoking, it's saying the stuff in the cigs won't just disappear from one moment to the other.

And that's true.

But it's kind of like beating a dead horse. It seems scientology is a combination of dead giveaways nd sci-fi (c'mon, the Xenu story? space planes that look exactly like DC-8's?)

[evenwolf]

from wikipedia:
"Philologist Allen Upward used the word "scientology" in his 1901 book The New Word as a synonym for "pseudoscience", and this is sometimes cited as the first coining of the word."


Do not confuse science with Scientology.   I really prefer that the word science go nowhere NEAR scientology.

[Nikolas]

fair enough evenwolf Even worst. A religion called "pseudoscience"... Interesting...

voh: I was being sarcastic. I actually know that chemicals stick around for a LONG TIME... even after we die... This is not something that Ron discovered! This is what I'm saying! This is... almost common knowledge something. I don't need scientology to tell me that!

[TerranRich]

I would personally classify Scientology as a spiritual movement, not a religion. Religion, at least to me, implies a belief in some higher power that is greater than us. Scientology instead promotes our own self-worth and our "thetan" (wtf?). I personally believe some of Scientology's tenets are weird and off-base, but hey, so are most other religions to me.

[evenwolf]

That's where I'm heading with Scientology.  It's difficult to separate it from the herd because it takes money from its members.  Or because the mythology is ridiculous.   Or because its members behave aggressively.

The same could be said of any religion.   But the most astounding thing about Scientology "new recruits" is that they are OK with being led along step by step, not knowing what their doctrine will be next.

Who knows, at the end of the Bridge it could be revealed that the whole thing was a joke after all.   "Thanks for spending 400,000 dollars on the latest Hubbard sci-fi experience!"

[MillsJROSS]

But the most astounding thing about Scientology "new recruits" is that they are OK with being led along step by step, not knowing what their doctrine will be next.

Essentially, it's kind of like a fraternity, which people are forced to pay in order to be part of said organization. I don't think this is really astounding. If you're promised greater knowledge after you progress through each step, I'd imagine most people would be compelled to go forward.

As to scientology not being a religion, one of the definitions of religion is...
"a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects." In fact, I couldn't find anything in any of the definitions that dealt with higher power. More just about discovering the universe. Now, it happens that most religions discover the universe through a higher being, but it isn't necessary. This lends to the question, "Why don't we consider, say athiesism a religion?" That's because athiest only implies that you don't believe in a higher power, and generally they don't meet in a group and have specific practices. Now if you have a group of athiests, that follow some sort of rules to life, it could be considered a religion.

That's where I'm heading with Scientology.  It's difficult to separate it from the herd because it takes money from its members.  Or because the mythology is ridiculous.   Or because its members behave aggressively.

I don't see that their mythology is any more ridiculous that any other. As far as taking money, most religious organizations have some form of dues. However, yes, they do need to have money to get into the inner circles of their religion. That's probably what strikes people as being a pyramid scheme. And I believe it is one too. Now if they use most of their money to achieve their spiritual or otherwise goals, I have no problem with it. But if their's just a few people at the heart of the religion who are just banking money from others beliefs, that's what I would find deplorable. However, in someways, thats no worse than a lot of businesses, it's just their selling their product as a religion. If people are content with what their buying, though, it doesn't really matter.

-MillsJROSS

[voh]

Obviously scientology is by definition a cult. I don't think it's a religion just because their followers say it is.

For example, I believe in Tyr, the god of tuesday. We are most definitely a cult. Anyone doubting this can ask me for pictures of our weekly ritual kitten slayings.

[MillsJROSS]

The first definition of cult "a particular system of religious worship, esp. with reference to its rites and ceremonies." I believe most, if not all, religions would fall into the cult category. And while half a million is small compared to the world population, it's big enough where it's not considered a cult by size. The closest definition I could find on it, is "a religion or sect considered to be false, unorthodox, or extremist, with members often living outside of conventional society under the direction of a charismatic leader." However, I'd argue that there are many religions that people feel are false or extreme.

In, general, the term cult doesn't necessarily have to have a negative connotation, even though, that's generally the case. I'm sure Scientologists don't think Christianity is a religion just because their followers say it is. Once again, we're back to the fact that this is a religion in its infancy, and so people tend to just wave it off. In a couple thousand years, it could be a dominating force (I hope not).

-MillsJROSS

[TerranRich]

For example, I believe in Tyr, the god of tuesday. We are most definitely a cult. Anyone doubting this can ask me for pictures of our weekly ritual kitten slayings.

TORRENT PLZ!!11