Violent videogame justice

[Andail]

If you don't like it, don't play

...well, I think this debate is largely about what kids - who don't always know what's best for them - do on their spare time.

Also, I find the argument about letting out steam quite weird. Is running over pedestrians with a stolen car the only means of stress relief you can come up with?

better doing it in computer games than in real life, etc etc

You shouldn't have a desire to commit serious crimes of violence either way. People who argue like this should ask themselves where this urge comes from.

[MrColossal]

But none of it is real Andail...

Would you rather instead someone read a book to relieve stress? If so remind them not to read a violent book because that is somehow a less valid form of stress relief because of the fake violence. Also, don't watch any violent movies... No shadow boxing because that is based on violence... Don't take your aggression out on constructing something in the basement because that could be viewed as you using tools to beat things up and it's an obvious leap that you'll start using hammers on people's heads and constructing spice racks out of pedestrians.

I kid but your post comes off as very condescending and not well thought out. What stress relievers get the green light?

[voh]

Everybody has agression in their systems - it's normal. How we deal with it differs. Some like to go and run a mile or 4, some like to punch the stuffing out of a punching bag in the garage, some like to listen to fast, aggressive music, and some prefer to play violent games so that they can get their aggression out through a proxy.

You shouldn't have a desire to commit serious crimes of violence either way. People who argue like this should ask themselves where this urge comes from.

It sounds as if you're saying that relieving aggression in a non-harmful way is unnatural, as well as feelings of aggression, annoyance and frustration.

When you get home after a frustrating day of, say, annoying coworkers, maybe a study mate who's being a royal twat, traffic that's just there to annoy you (or so it seems), or any other form of annoyance which will leave you with a mood that's far from sparkling, what do you do?

I know what I do. I either grab my guitar to play aggressive music, turn on the stereo to listen to it or possibly fire up Grand Theft Auto or an equivalent game which involves beating people to a bloody pulp (causing me to giggle).

Either I get rid of my pent-up frustration, or I just keep my bad mood throughout the rest of the day. I'd rather get a chuckle over a virtual broken backbone than let the BS ruin the rest of my day

[TerranRich]

Either I get rid of my pent-up frustration, or I just keep my bad mood throughout the rest of the day. I'd rather get a chuckle over a virtual broken backbone than let the BS ruin the rest of my day

Bingo. I will admit that I don't have the physicality to run a mile, nor can I afford a punching bag...nor can I afford to punch a wall or two. But I do have video games and that's one of my means of relieving stress and frustration and aggression. If I don't release it, I've found that I lash out at people, including my wife, who doesn't deserve that.

So, you see, I'd rather beat up a 3D game character or two than yell at my wife.

[Erenan]

Yeah, you know, I think it's important to recognize that almost all of the time when people let out steam by playing violent videogames they aren't satisfying an actual, real, honest-to-goodness urge to commit horribly violent acts. It's just general frustration, isn't it?

[Andail]

Heh, yeah well maybe my post wasn't thought through. I just find it frightening that a lot of people seem to regard computer games as an alternative to commit real life crimes.

Does it really relieve you of stress to run down pedestrians in GTA? Maybe it does, but, with the risk of sounding "condescending", I'm quite sure there must be better ways. I don't think shadow boxing is destructive, I don't even think real boxing is as destructive as pretending to torture or murder people, because typically boxers agree to engage in a ritualized fighting, consentually.

And if you think I've been condescending so far, you'd better cover your eyes now. Really, take a long walk, go for a swim, even punch that punching bag, and I can assure you'll feel much less stressed.

[/condescending]

[Erenan]

Well, I think people sometimes play videogames in general, not just violent ones, as a means of relieving stress. The violent ones are simply included in that. Of course, for me, a game like Manhunt that's focused on sneaking around and avoiding detection would be more stress inducing than relieving, anyway. I'd rather play something more lighthearted and easy to relieve stress.

[big brother]

Back when I took comparative literature, the professor was obsessed with the detective stories and the dime pulp novels of old. At the height of their popularity, they were the source of controversy. From a narrative standpoint, they are arranged backwards, starting with the result then backtracking to the cause. Apparently, a lot of people were upset with this, because when trying to solve the murder, the reader would put themselves in the suspect's shoes, mentally re-enacting the deed. The possible connection between the literary act and a "real" one is explored in novels like "Strangers on a Train", where the main character (who becomes a murderer) reads a lot of these mystery books.

[voh]

I don't even think real boxing is as destructive as pretending to torture or murder people, because typically boxers agree to engage in a ritualized fighting, consentually.

First off, when I play a violent game, I'm not "pretending" to torture or murder people. You sound like Jack Thompson, as if I'm using it to practice before I venture out into the world to try it on real people, y'know stabbing them with frozen turkeys and hammering their faces into walls. Wait. That's nonsense. No, what I AM doing is I'm hitting rendered make-belief faux humans with a rendered make-belief faux car. Replace either of those with fitting alternatives such as dogs, ice picks, whatnot, and you probably still won't get the picture.

What part of "IT'S NOT REAL" do you not understand? Sure, you obviously know it's a game and not real, but I fail to see this "link" which you hammer at, which is supposed to exist between violent game players and violent people. That for some reason somebody who enjoys a good violent, gory game such as Bloodbath Maximus: Ultra Death Orgyâ,,¢ is obviously a very violent person for enjoying such a thing.

Also. Real boxing isn't destructive because the boxers agree to engange consentually? First off, yes it's destructive. You beat someone. Often to a pulp. Consent or not, knowing that most boxers have broken something in their face means, to me, that it's quite destructive.

But okay, let's assume it's not destructive. Does that mean that whenever I cause any permanent damage to one of the models existing out of nothing but dots of light I'm engaging in something non-consentual? That I owe them an apology? I'm not sure my insurance covers damage done to imaginary things.

[MrColossal]

But going for a walk doesn't relieve stress for me, I don't want to punch a punching bag and going for a swim in mid winter isn't an option, can't I just load up a game and play it? Obviously everyone is different and acts differently, right? One form of stress relief for one dude might not "work" for another so it's up to the individual to find the best form of stress relief. Some people find playing video games is the best for them.

Load up World of Sand or Hate Clown or Unreal Tournament with easy bots and insta-gib turned on and I can't assure you you'll feel much less stressed because maybe you won't and maybe all you need is a quiet room and a hampster in your lap. Just don't make it seem like we don't know how to make decisions for ourselves when it comes to how we relieve stress.

[Andail]

Voh, I don't think I said that there is a link between computer game violence and real life violence. You want me to be like Jack Thompson so much you put words in my mouth.

Let me break down what I actually said:
* It's rather frightening when people say that torturing or molesting people in video games make them less inclined to do so in real life (or "beat to a pulp" to use your favourite phrase). Or just yell at their wives, whatever. Even though they are pixles. I do understand the notion of "not real" quite well, Voh, so chill out. But they are after all not only pixels, they also represent something, right? I just find it worrying that people are so full of that kind of stress, period.
* I question the benefits of violent computer games when it comes to stress relief. Sure, everyone's entitled to their opinions, but so am I, I guess. I know that a lot of kids today act extremely frustrated and stressed when they play their games (or at least when they get interrupted, or get killed, which happens a lot).
If ultra-violent video games really are so beneficial in this respect, we can look forward to bright times, so let's hope.

Since this idea about physical activity is such a controversial topic, I'm gonna give it a rest here. We all live our lives as we wish anyway.

Btw, well boxing can be destructive, I didn't say it wasn't (again you're twisting my words), I said I don't think it's as destructive as pretending to molest or torture people. Furthermore, last time I boxed, I didn't beat anyone to the pulp. It's just a form of exercise if you want it to be.

[cobra79]

Looking at this video it seems to me the stress relief argument does not hold for everyone. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBVmfIUR1DA

It's fake but it's funny.

[InCreator]

I'd say that playing violent games casually is why I never get as angry as MrColossal described. Stupid coworkers and general BS won't raise that high in my case.

[Afflict]

Hectic.

Where are the good ol days when playboy relieved every bodies stress
LoL @ TerranRich and his implants & at a couple of really other kewl posts that I am to lazy to refer to now.

Ok let me start at the really weird rape game. I have no issue with it, very concerning? Yes Why? Because this seems to look more like a god damn trainer on how to rape people. Honestly I don't give a crap how many people play the game as long as it settles that inner urge and they don't rape real people, they can rape polygons and their hand all night long. Heck I'll even let them rape their hand the whole day long.

A couple of things need to be made very clear, when A game is absolute mindless carefree violence I say sell it to the mass market and save some lives.

By playing these games you cannot ever blame the game and say the game made me do it, that's like saying I playes chess and now I am off to kill the King. It's like I said in my prior post in case anybody skipped it, since the first murders were blamed on games it's become a more popular excuse. Blaming something or someone else is easier than facing the music.

It's like MrColossal said, they hide behind any medium but where do we draw the line. Technically I should be the guy with the highest frag rate on the planet if these were indeed the facts. I mean I listen to rap sometimes, I listen to death metal, and rock. I watch the most violent movies I can get my hands on. I play the most violent video games on the market, and I study martial arts.

So in the event of anything unpleasant happening I am going do the following. In no specific order until I hit a bargain that reduces my sentence to psychiatric therapy and house arrest.

Blame Bill Gates

Blame MegaDeath & Rob Zombie

Blame 50 cents

Blame every motivational book for teaching me how to take action.

Blame Every Possible Video game starting from Rush & Attack & Golden Axe. (Depending on my specific crime) Working my Through to Grand Theft Auto, Man Hunt.

Blame Bruce Lee for developing Jeet Kune Do If that doesn't work I'll work my way down to my Sense for letting me train full contact.

Next up we have Brainscan (Movie) that I was dreaming I was playing GTA & when I woke up I had blood on my hands! Or some BS like that. BTW watch Brainscan cause its awesome (Well was when I was like 8) In the event it is not murder or the like I will blame it on oceans eleven & every other Heist movie I can recall. & if all else fails blame Pulp Fiction & Gummy Bears.

Next up I will blame the arcade shooter games like house of the dead * any medication that I conveniently would of taken before my hectic masterful crime.

Blame CSI & Bones & Medical detectives for making me want to test the system.

If all else fails I will pull out my Rubiks Cube and Blame it and tell the officer that it has indeed pushed me over the edge, and bestow the glorious cube to him.... in which I will have at least 24-hours before he shoots me for giving him the unsolvable cube (This will only work as long as you have the local cops cause the FBI guys might actually be able to solve the cube, but either way enough time to escape will be available)  to plan & escape... and in the event of recapture I will blame the Great Escape (Pc Game) & The Rock (Movie) For planting the seeds to my Jail break.

I mean really wtf? Seriously we can blame anything, and as humans I know that 99.9% of humans blame something in some area of their lives that didn't work out 100%. When really the problem is within ourselves.

Like I said if anything influences you to go and kill someone, well then call the cops to fetch you before you even commit the crime, and seek help. Cause then you must have your Keyboard and your mouse wires plugged into each others ports...

(I am pretty tired ATM and no I am not going to proof read the post, so in the event of repetitive content read the blame list and pick one, and that will be my excuse)

[voh]

MegaDeath

Tssk tssk! It's Megadeth!

[InCreator]

I'd blame...

...stupid parents growing little maniacs and then deflecting this with some game or tv-show to blame.
If you, mother or father - raised a murderer, you fucked whole thing up. REALLY bad.
Probably there was no parent for this kid, and WHOLE parenting side was left to a videogame, if there's even a bit truth in the story. Anyway, if a child kills another, one and only murderer in the case is the parent. And kid just needs some beating to understand that violence is - indeed painful and not something to practise on others.

[voh]

*applauds*

Thank you, InCreator, I tried to post that a couple of hours back but couldn't find the right words.

The best I could do was "violent video games != bad parenting, where bad parenting is the cause of most dysfunctions".

[ManicMatt]

LOCATION: GameWorld, leicester, UK

Parent decides to purchase a game for their young child.

Matt: "You're aware this 18 rated game has violence, swearing, sex and drug content?"
Parent: "Yeah whatever it's fine. It's just a game, innit."

[Becky]

I'd blame...

...stupid parents growing little maniacs and then deflecting this with some game or tv-show to blame.
If you, mother or father - raised a murderer, you fucked whole thing up. REALLY bad.
Probably there was no parent for this kid, and WHOLE parenting side was left to a videogame, if there's even a bit truth in the story. Anyway, if a child kills another, one and only murderer in the case is the parent. And kid just needs some beating to understand that violence is - indeed painful and not something to practise on others.

Nice broad brush you're painting with there.  Whilst I agree that parenting is definitely an issue that needs to be considered, some people are just mentally unstable due to genetics or whatever, and that's not necessarily anything to do with their parents.  Perhaps the reason some kids are violent is because they -have- experienced violence first hand, and somehow feel justified in treating others the same?

I have to say I very much agree with Andail's statement here:

I just find it frightening that a lot of people seem to regard computer games as an alternative to commit real life crimes.

If I relied on video games in order to not go out and beat people up, I'd be exceedingly worried about the state of my mental health.

[evenwolf]

Mowing down pedestrians in GTA does NOT relieve stress for me.   Saints Row has ragdoll physics and therefore DOES relieve me of stress!!!!!!