AGS 3.0 Final - it's been a long road

[Gilbert]

Do a forum search, there're some discussions on Vista compatibility already (like this for example).

I'd never seen Vista (and won't be using it in the near future) so I'm not sure if there are any real problems. But skimming that thread I think it should work in most case, but the problem most people encounter is folder access rights (or something like that).

So, what did you mean by "couldn't get it to work"? It just didn't start, or crashed or otherwise?

[nick.keane]

I mean, I can get AGSEdit to run perfectly fine (the stable version, I mean. I'm going to see if I can try to get the beta version to run on here right now.) The thing is when I try to run a game executable (like TGCC, for example. I want to check it for bugs) or test a game, the engine crashes, saying that my laptop cannot support 320 x 200 graphics settings (and it's fairly unclear as to why). I've tried updating my graphics card, but that didn't help, so I'm assuming that it's a Vista issue (like maybe Vista Home Premium not reading the drivers right, but I'm not sure). My cousin pamela says she can get the executables to work in Vista Business edition, but I can't really say if just having the added fuctionality of Business is what causes the executables to work. Or she's lying.  I really do not know.

I can always just try re-installing said graphics drivers, but I still seriously doubt reinstalling the software will work. At the very least, I can still make games, but my ability to debug erroneous code will be seriously hampered until I can solve this problem.

But yeah, thanks for the thread! I'll check it out to see of anyone in there has found a solution to this.

[Gilbert]

If your system can't do 320x200 (some "modern" OS/Graphic Card (driver)/Display can't do this) , just set up your game to run in a window or 640x400 and it should work fine.

[nick.keane]

Gil: I put in the Vista Compatablility thread that it works!

I also checked out the beta. The start-up graphic looks tres bien, and the interface seems soooo much easier to work with. The layout is more like Visual Studio, so I'm basically far more used to that. I'll make sure to give it a good run-through and see if it's stable enough to start developing ShipLife: Episode One on. If I run into any problems with it, I'll let you fellas know about in the most bitchy, moany way possible, alright? alright!

[Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens]

A few things:


1.  I notice that the character and view tabs don't update to use the currently selected char/view in the list, and this would be far more efficient and nice than having to open a tab for each one you want to check and edit.

2.  The undo option in the room editor only seems to undo the last pixel you erased/drew even if you did a continuous line.

3.  Am I wrong in the observation that there's currently no way to edit hotspot/region/objects in the rooms aside from going into the room script manually or clicking on the properties button?  It's rather unintuitive at present and could use some work, like a right click option for hotspots/regions/objects/etc that will take you to the relevant function in the room script (or double clicking them). 

4.  Currently, clicking on a property for anything in a room takes you to the top of the room script file rather than seeking to the relevant function.

5.  Are the x-ed out areas in the Palette list supposed to be blank?  If so then why do colors show up for them on the properties window?  Also, you can't change the x-ed graphic to a color if you pick one.

A couple of suggestions:

1.  A rectangular box zoom feature for painting hotspots.  Yeah, we could import them all as masks but then why have the ability inside of ags at all?  I've always had difficulty with this aspect since the lack of zoom makes it very difficult to make an accurate mask for areas with dynamic shapes and this would be a welcome addition.

2.  Box/Ellipsoid shapes as draw tools.  Would make most walkable areas trivial to implement.

3.  Erase with right click rather than having to select the erase tool.  This is more intuitive and easy to work with when you've just made a little mistake drawing.  The erase would work based on the currently selected brush, so if you picked an ellipsoid it would erase the area of the ellipsoid you drew.

4.  Erase entire region/hotspot/etc with Shift+right click on the target.

5.  Undo with 'U' and possibly some undo levels (wouldn't need many).

6.  R,G,B ranges from 0-255 in the color finder for text color and such would be nice.

7.  Are you planning to re-implement a preview window for view animations at some point?  I notice it's implemented for accessing views from the sprite manager sprite->assign to a view->choose, though that window needs to be resizable for larger animations.  Perhaps double clicking on the view header could open this window as well?

8.  A giant picture of you in the help selection flipping everyone off.


I was going to test this more thoroughly with one of my larger projects but some of my modules broke and I'm getting a lot of on screen messages and warnings.

[Pumaman]

Really? I'd find that impractical. I move room files around all the time to speed up compile time (i.e. moving all files not needed at the moment to a temp folder).

Hmm interesting, I'll have a think about that.

this version is going to be fully compatable with vista right? Last time I tried to get AGS 2.72 (compiled executables, not the editor, AGSEdit) to function, I couldn't get it to work.

Yes, I am running it on Vista and it's fine. The only known issue is that most Vista graphics drivers don't support 320x200, so you'll need to up the resolution in the game Setup, or run the game windowed.

I'm working on some Vista enhancements like support for the Game Explorer in the next beta.

1.  I notice that the character and view tabs don't update to use the currently selected char/view in the list, and this would be far more efficient and nice than having to open a tab for each one you want to check and edit.

Well, that would go against the overall design of the new editor, which is to allow you to have lots of things open at once and flick between them.

2.  The undo option in the room editor only seems to undo the last pixel you erased/drew even if you did a continuous line.

Well spotted, it doesn't work properly with the freehand tool. I'll look into it.

Am I wrong in the observation that there's currently no way to edit hotspot/region/objects in the rooms aside from going into the room script manually or clicking on the properties button?  It's rather unintuitive at present and could use some work, like a right click option for hotspots/regions/objects/etc that will take you to the relevant function in the room script (or double clicking them). 

I'm not really sure what you mean. Since a hotspot/object/etc has various different events, you need to be able to select which one to edit. Perhaps the "..." button on the events pane is a bit small though, would anyone else want a right-click menu to edit scripts for these things?

4.  Currently, clicking on a property for anything in a room takes you to the top of the room script file rather than seeking to the relevant function.

I can't replicate this problem. Has anyone else had issues with this?

5.  Are the x-ed out areas in the Palette list supposed to be blank?  If so then why do colors show up for them on the properties window?  Also, you can't change the x-ed graphic to a color if you pick one.

This works the same way as the existing 2.72 palette editor.

1.  A rectangular box zoom feature for painting hotspots.  Yeah, we could import them all as masks but then why have the ability inside of ags at all?  I've always had difficulty with this aspect since the lack of zoom makes it very difficult to make an accurate mask for areas with dynamic shapes and this would be a welcome addition.

Yeah, zoom for room areas has been on the to-do list for a while, I should really get round to it.

2.  Box/Ellipsoid shapes as draw tools.  Would make most walkable areas trivial to implement.

3.  Erase with right click rather than having to select the erase tool.  This is more intuitive and easy to work with when you've just made a little mistake drawing.  The erase would work based on the currently selected brush, so if you picked an ellipsoid it would erase the area of the ellipsoid you drew.

8.  A giant picture of you in the help selection flipping everyone off.

Good ideas, I'll look into them.

4.  Erase entire region/hotspot/etc with Shift+right click on the target.

5.  Undo with 'U' and possibly some undo levels (wouldn't need many).

6.  R,G,B ranges from 0-255 in the color finder for text color and such would be nice.

7.  Are you planning to re-implement a preview window for view animations at some point?

Thanks for the suggestions, I'll have a think about these.

[Monsieur OUXX]

4.  Currently, clicking on a property for anything in a room takes you to the top of the room script file rather than seeking to the relevant function.

I can't replicate this problem. Has anyone else had issues with this?

It also happened to me, but I can't remember what were the conditions.

[monkey0506]

I'm not sure if it's just my computer (as I do seem to find a lot of non-replicable, nonexistent problems with the autocomplete) but autocomplete doesn't appear to like functions that return a dynamic array. I'm getting a lot of strange values in autocomplete and simply telling it to ignore the functions seems to fix the problem. Again, this may just be my computer.

[cjhrules]

Great work CJ! Everything is working great so far   

[OneDollar]

Am I wrong in the observation that there's currently no way to edit hotspot/region/objects in the rooms aside from going into the room script manually or clicking on the properties button?  It's rather unintuitive at present and could use some work, like a right click option for hotspots/regions/objects/etc that will take you to the relevant function in the room script (or double clicking them). 

I'm not really sure what you mean. Since a hotspot/object/etc has various different events, you need to be able to select which one to edit. Perhaps the "..." button on the events pane is a bit small though, would anyone else want a right-click menu to edit scripts for these things?

Right-click menu of interactions that jumps to their script entries? Sounds nice...

[cjhrules]

I just want to add that I am very happy to see the "export" function concerning backgrounds. Now I never have to be worried about loosing the orig background. Great idea. Very usefull

[nick.keane]

I read that the #define preprocessor function can be used in headers. Can the #include preprocessor function in v2.8 also be used? I checked out the included help file, but it looks outdated.

I don't really want to test #include w/o being sure that it's included in AGS's framework (just in case it has to be placed in a certain area or will cause the program to crash)

Or does import serve the same function?

[Pumaman]

I'm not sure if it's just my computer (as I do seem to find a lot of non-replicable, nonexistent problems with the autocomplete) but autocomplete doesn't appear to like functions that return a dynamic array. I'm getting a lot of strange values in autocomplete and simply telling it to ignore the functions seems to fix the problem. Again, this may just be my computer.

Hmm yes, autocomplete doesn't seem to be working properly with functions that return dynamic arrays. I'll look into it.

I read that the #define preprocessor function can be used in headers. Can the #include preprocessor function in v2.8 also be used? I checked out the included help file, but it looks outdated. 

No, AGS does not support #include. If you want to use an additional script, simply create an extra Script and its header will automatically included into the global script.

[nick.keane]

No, AGS does not support #include. If you want to use an additional script, simply create an extra Script and its header will automatically included into the global script.

I've got four files, the global script, the global header, my_script.asc, and my_script.ash. Do you mean that the header file 'my_script.ash' is automatically recognized by the global script invisibly? I say this because I can't seem to find any indication that the global script 'refers' to my_script.ash in the global script file, so I'm kind of confused as to whether there should be a reference pointing to my_script.asc from the global script and it wasn't made, or if the entire process is invisible and it's just assumed that global script goes, 'hi other scripts! I can see you and use all your functionality automatically. Nifty, eh?'

I'm probably just being a little overcomplicated about this, since I'm learning C++ and the MSVB linker freaks out if other scripts are not #included with and the functions within those scripts are used in main().

Also, autocomplete sometimes replaces my variables with functions while I'm typing, which is getting kind of annoying when I type something like star[blah] and I start typing the left bracket, and wind up with StartCutscene[blah]. It's not a really serious issue and can be easily retyped (differently, though!), but it can get kind of annoying.

[monkey0506]

You don't create new scripts outside of AGS. Within the AGS editor, right click on "Scripts" then choose "New script". Then AGS will automagically say "HI SKRIPTZ!"

[Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens]

Well, that would go against the overall design of the new editor, which is to allow you to have lots of things open at once and flick between them.

I'm not sure I agree, Chris.  On the one hand I see your point (more tabs, more things open = good) but on the other I don't see a problem with updating the currently selected tab if you're parsing down a view list/inventory list/whatnot.  Virtually all programs I know of allow this, anyway?  It would make quick checks/fixes faster since you wouldn't need to open a new tab just to check something really quickly.  Ultimately I think it improves the overall usability of your software and convenience and that translates to happy thoughts!

I'm not really sure what you mean. Since a hotspot/object/etc has various different events, you need to be able to select which one to edit. Perhaps the "..." button on the events pane is a bit small though, would anyone else want a right-click menu to edit scripts for these things?

Couldn't a right-click on hotspot/region/object menu (or double-clicking) take you to the relevant code block by way of a list (interactions, mouseover, etc)?  Since you can click on hotspots/objects/etc to select between them this seems a bit faster and more intuitive to me than going to the properties window.  In fact, being able to select much of the functionality relevant to the hotspot would be nice (like baselines) from a popup menu (or shortcuts).  I suppose you could alternately implement a submenu in the rooms editor that would feature these options based on the current mode?

Thanks for looking at my suggestions!

[Pumaman]

I've got four files, the global script, the global header, my_script.asc, and my_script.ash. Do you mean that the header file 'my_script.ash' is automatically recognized by the global script invisibly?

Yes.

I'm probably just being a little overcomplicated about this, since I'm learning C++ and the MSVB linker freaks out if other scripts are not #included with and the functions within those scripts are used in main().

AGS is not C++
The language syntax is similar, but it's a completely different compiler; therefore you can't really make assumptions about how AGS works based on C++.

Also, autocomplete sometimes replaces my variables with functions while I'm typing, which is getting kind of annoying when I type something like star[blah] and I start typing the left bracket, and wind up with StartCutscene[blah]. It's not a really serious issue and can be easily retyped (differently, though!), but it can get kind of annoying.

What's are people's opinions on autocomplete in 2.8? It's slightly more aggressive than the 2.72 version, but is it helpful or does it tend to get in the way?

On the one hand I see your point (more tabs, more things open = good) but on the other I don't see a problem with updating the currently selected tab if you're parsing down a view list/inventory list/whatnot.  Virtually all programs I know of allow this, anyway?

That would be one way of doing it, but it would basically mean that you could only have one view / inventory item / etc open at a time -- therefore if you wanted to edit two GUIs and flick between them you wouldn't be able to do so easily. I'm interested to hear what other people think about this.

Couldn't a right-click on hotspot/region/object menu (or double-clicking) take you to the relevant code block by way of a list (interactions, mouseover, etc)? 

Ironically, since I've now implemented your suggestion of right-click erasing the room areas, it can't now be used for a context menu...


Anyway, beta 7 is up. This includes some Vista integration features, and some other bits and bobs which I hope you'll find useful.

I think this might be the last beta before going to Release Candidate stage, if no major issues are reported.

Really? I'd find that impractical. I move room files around all the time to speed up compile time (i.e. moving all files not needed at the moment to a temp folder).

Hopefully the new, faster Run command in beta 7 should make this unnecessary.

[monkey0506]

Also, autocomplete sometimes replaces my variables with functions while I'm typing, which is getting kind of annoying when I type something like star[blah] and I start typing the left bracket, and wind up with StartCutscene[blah]. It's not a really serious issue and can be easily retyped (differently, though!), but it can get kind of annoying.

What's are people's opinions on autocomplete in 2.8? It's slightly more aggressive than the 2.72 version, but is it helpful or does it tend to get in the way?

I've found it useful when if I want to type, say, "String.Format" I can simply put "Str.Format" and the autocomplete will have inserted the "ing" for me. However there are cases where I may have a String named "text" and I type "text =" only to find that it has been replaced with "TextBox =". The only way I found to get around it is to type some junk value at the end like "text* " then delete it, and then continue about my business.

It's hard to say whether this is more of a hindrance than it is useful as, like I said, I've found the current implementation to be useful. Perhaps you could simply tell the autocomplete to leave things alone when I type a space (or an opening bracket for arrays)?

One thing I definite dislike though is that autocomplete appears to be filling in values even within a string-literal. So I may be trying to type "this is some text on a label" but instead I'll end up with "this is some TextBox on a label". If nothing else I think this alone should be fixed, but that's just my opinion on the matter.

[Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens]

Ironically, since I've now implemented your suggestion of right-click erasing the room areas, it can't now be used for a context menu...

Agreed, though you could probably implement it as a submenu/buttons in rooms->objects and such, right?

That would be one way of doing it, but it would basically mean that you could only have one view / inventory item / etc open at a time -- therefore if you wanted to edit two GUIs and flick between them you wouldn't be able to do so easily.

Perhaps you misunderstand me (or I you), but I don't see why being able to update the currently selected tab with new content would affect opening new/multiple tabs and switching between those tabs?  I could see someone accidentally selecting something on the right pane and switching the focused tab to it, but as long as what they were doing wasn't erased it would be no different from many editors I've used.  If I understand you right you could just have the sidebar where you select views,etc deselect when you switch between tabs to prevent it from updating all the tabs .


Just played with the new rectangle and erase options int beta 7 and they're nice!  One thing I noticed though is that if you create or delete a rectangle from Right-to-Left it doesn't show the rectangle being drawn.  A few more feature improvements and the room editor will be about as user-friendly as it gets.  Erase now works properly.

Edit:  Right Click erase only works in hotspot mode.  It doesn't work properly in walk-behinds, walkable areas or regions.  Edit2:  Ignore this, my right mouse button decided to break suddenly .


Something I've been wondering about for some time is how difficult it would be to implement a mannequin-style display for characters you want to appear in a room, sort of a drag-and-drop type thing to bring a character from the character list (or from the room editor menu if you prefer) and pop them into a room and position them, that way you could place them precisely where they need to be on walkable areas.  This would only require one frame being brought over, obviously, and would be both a visual aide and a means to quickly set the x,y and room position of characters without having to guess their position in a room and then adjust it a bit at a time.  Would this be tedious to implement?

Aha, I've found the problem with the room scripts not seeking properly:  it's the NAME property!  When you import a game the hotspots aren't assigned default names if they don't have names already -- but it does make generic names for the interactions like hotspot1_Interact, hotspot2_Look, etc.  The NAME field needs this generic name convention applied to it as well so when you seek to the function it can find it ^_^.

Edit:  Just to test something I deleted the imported game and re-imported from the original and now it seeks to the functions fine.  This must have been a problem with beta 5 or 6 that carried over I guess?

[Ghost]

BUG?!
I just spotted a big one: I imported a copy of my game to Beta7, played a bit, saved, then quit. No save games were found in the /compiled directory, and when I relaunched the game, no save games there, too.

To make sure I made a "one-room" game from scrap, saved, and the same result: No save game.

Running on Windows XP Home with Service Pack2 and all necessary net stuff installed.