AGS 3.0 Final - it's been a long road

[Khris]

Regarding the auto-complete issue I can see two alternatives:
-The User puts e.g. a underscore in front of all their own names.
-The auto-complete is changed so it won't until one presses the enter key.

About the tab-behavior mentioned by ProgZ:
Sounds like it should be implemented optionally, so everybody can choose the method they prefer.
Having multiple tabs is fine, but I can also see it getting in the way.

[Gilbert]

BUG?!
I just spotted a big one: I imported a copy of my game to Beta7, played a bit, saved, then quit. No save games were found in the /compiled directory, and when I relaunched the game, no save games there, too.

Did you just *tested* the game in the editor?

Check this update:

* The "Run" and "Run without debugger" commands have been optimised so that they don't build the game EXE file, but instead load required files directly from the game folder. This means that the Run command is much faster than the old Test Game command in 2.72. To create the game EXE, use the Build EXE (F7) command.

[Khris]

I just tested this, too.
Initially, the game saves ended up fine in "My Documents".

After erasing "Save games folder name", I had to "Rebuild all files" first, though, before they were saved to the game's folder.

[Pumaman]

One thing I definite dislike though is that autocomplete appears to be filling in values even within a string-literal.

Yeah I've noticed that, it doesn't seem to be recognising it as a string literal until you type the closing speech mark. I'll investigate.

Perhaps you misunderstand me (or I you), but I don't see why being able to update the currently selected tab with new content would affect opening new/multiple tabs and switching between those tabs?

Perhaps we're getting our wires crossed, could you re-phrase your suggestion? My interpretation of what you said was that if I already had a View tab open, then if I double-clicked a different view in the project tree it would replace the existing open tab with the new one?

One thing I noticed though is that if you create or delete a rectangle from Right-to-Left it doesn't show the rectangle being drawn

Good point, I'll look into it.

Something I've been wondering about for some time is how difficult it would be to implement a mannequin-style display for characters you want to appear in a room, sort of a drag-and-drop type thing to bring a character from the character list (or from the room editor menu if you prefer) and pop them into a room and position them, that way you could place them precisely where they need to be on walkable areas.

I can see how that would be useful. It probably won't make it into 2.8 but it's a good suggestion for future.

Aha, I've found the problem with the room scripts not seeking properly:  it's the NAME property!  When you import a game the hotspots aren't assigned default names if they don't have names already -- but it does make generic names for the interactions like hotspot1_Interact, hotspot2_Look, etc.  The NAME field needs this generic name convention applied to it as well so when you seek to the function it can find it ^_^.

Ahhh thanks, yes there does seem to be a problem there. I'll look into it.

One last thing.  Am I missing the area where you select a new hotspot/walkbehind/etc color to draw, because I can't seem to find a place on the room editor to switch to a new one?  Or to add a new object? :\

The drop-down list box above the property grid has all the available hotspot/walkbehind colours; to add an object, right-click on the background where you want it to be added.
These will be covered by the updating of the tutorial which I'll do for the next beta.

I just spotted a big one: I imported a copy of my game to Beta7, played a bit, saved, then quit. No save games were found in the /compiled directory, and when I relaunched the game, no save games there, too.

With beta 7, the default behaviour is to put save games in My Documents (see the Save Games Folder Name option in General Settings). Because F5 no longer re-builds the EXE file, if you launch it once by using Run in the editor, and again by double-clicking the EXE file in the Compiled folder, they'll be looking in different places.

Either use the F7 Build option to rebuild the EXE file, or just launch it by using the F5 Run option each time, and it should be looking in the same place as where it saved it.

Maybe it would be a good idea for the editor to delete the game EXE file when you use the Run option, to make sure you don't try and launch it by accident and wonder where all your changes have gone.

[Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens]

Perhaps we're getting our wires crossed, could you re-phrase your suggestion? My interpretation of what you said was that if I already had a View tab open, then if I double-clicked a different view in the project tree it would replace the existing open tab with the new one?

Ah, not quite what I meant.  What I meant was in the currently open tab if you single clicked one of the entries in the project tree it would auto-update the currently open tab with the new information.  So if, for example, you had a view tab open you could parse down the view list with single clicks (or the arrow keys) and it would update the currently active tab with the new view.  Obviously if no tabs are open it wouldn't do anything, so no harm there.  This also wouldn't affect the double-click to open a new tab setup you have implemented already.

to add an object, right-click on the background where you want it to be added.

Yeah, I edited this out of my post when I discovered my right mouse button had broken ;\.

Thanks!

[Ghost]

With beta 7, the default behaviour is to put save games in My Documents (see the Save Games Folder Name option in General Settings). Because F5 no longer re-builds the EXE file, if you launch it once by using Run in the editor, and again by double-clicking the EXE file in the Compiled folder, they'll be looking in different places.

All right. After I entered a name for a save game folder, everything worked nice. The folder was created in My Documents, and saved games where
correctly found when running from within AGS and when running the exe from the compiled folder.
Before I entered a name, though, it was still impossible to find the save games when running the exe from the compiled folder, and there was no folder in My Documents. Does that mean that there MUST be a folder name entered in General Settings? In that case I suggest setting it to a default.
Or do I still get something wrong? 

[Khris]

I just tested this, too.
Initially, the game saves ended up fine in "My Documents".

After erasing "Save games folder name", I had to "Rebuild all files" first, though, before they were saved to the game's folder.

[Pumaman]

What I meant was in the currently open tab if you single clicked one of the entries in the project tree it would auto-update the currently open tab with the new information.

Ah I see what you mean, yeah that could work. Not sure if it could confuse some people though, I'll have a think about it.

Before I entered a name, though, it was still impossible to find the save games when running the exe from the compiled folder, and there was no folder in My Documents. Does that mean that there MUST be a folder name entered in General Settings? In that case I suggest setting it to a default.

No, you don't have to set a folder name. But the save games that disappeared, did you save them when running from the Compiled folder, or when running using the editor's Run command? When running with the editor's F5 command, the save games will get saved to the game folder instead of the Compiled folder.

I'd strongly recommend everybody uses the save folder name as it means that if two different people use the same computer, their save games don't interfere with each other. Additionally, there are some issues with Vista when applications try to write to Program Files.

[TheMagician]

Just two small things:

1. I think it has been suggested before but wouldn't it be a bit more intuitive if the closing "X" button for tabs came directly after the tabs name (Firefox-style) and not at the other end of the screen? Also, is the only keyboard shortcut available for closing tabs "STRG+F4"? Because that is really uncomfortable, especially if you need it so often.

2. Also concerning keyboard shortcuts: Is there a list of all shortcuts in the manual? I tried a search for "keyboard" and "shortcut" but found nothing. I think that would really be helpful.


And I also encountered a strange error in the view pane when I was messing around with a new "Default Game". However, I was not able to reproduce it. Click picture for fullscreen.

[AGA]

I suggested CTRL (STRG?)+F4 because that's how most tabbed applications do it. I wasn't aware of any other key combos that worked. I agree an X on every tab would be a nice option.

[Gilbert]

I think he's using a MAC (as suggested by his captured image) so he may need to use some weird keys like STRG (? well, I'm never familiar with MACs).

Anyway, Ctrl-F4 is comfortable for me, as softwares I mostly use (Opera and some others) use this key for closing Tabs, I don't know if it would be annoying to press STRG-F4 on a MAC keyboard though (due to the placement of the keys?).

I suggested CTRL (STRG?)+F4 because that's how most tabbed applications do it. I wasn't aware of any other key combos that worked. I agree an X on every tab would be a nice option.

I don't know about this though, I tried turning this option on once in Opera and I hated it, so I turned it off and am content with the X on the far right. Maybe it can be made into an option though.

[Radiant]

I suggested CTRL (STRG?)+F4 because that's how most tabbed applications do it. I wasn't aware of any other key combos that worked. I agree an X on every tab would be a nice option.

Control-W is also very standard (and slightly more convenient), as is Alt-F Alt-C (for file > close)

[Reaper]

I think he's using a MAC (as suggested by his captured image) so he may need to use some weird keys like STRG (? well, I'm never familiar with MACs).

STRG is no weird MAC key, it is the name for the CTRL key on a german keyboard. So STRG+F4 == CTRL+F4

[TheMagician]

Just to clarify some things:

-Yes, STRG is CTRL on my German keyboard.

-No, I'm not using a Mac, just WinXP with the Flyakite OS X design.

-I agree with Radiant that Control-W would be more convenient (I have very small hands ... if you really want to see me struggling with the CTRL-F4 combination you may click here

[Rui 'Trovatore' Pires]

You could hold down CTRL with any digit of your choice in your left hand and tap F4 with any digit of your choice, the most popular one being the index.

It's a workaround. Doesn't require any extra modules or plugins.

[Pumaman]

1. I think it has been suggested before but wouldn't it be a bit more intuitive if the closing "X" button for tabs came directly after the tabs name (Firefox-style) and not at the other end of the screen? Also, is the only keyboard shortcut available for closing tabs "STRG+F4"? Because that is really uncomfortable, especially if you need it so often.

I'm not sure abotu having the Close button on every tab, I don't like the way Firefox does that and personally I think it wastes too much space on the tab-bar. However, I guess I could look into adding it as an option for people who like it.

As for the keyboard shortcut, I can look into adding Ctrl+W as well, since as Radiant says it's the other common shortcut for this.

2. Also concerning keyboard shortcuts: Is there a list of all shortcuts in the manual? I tried a search for "keyboard" and "shortcut" but found nothing. I think that would really be helpful.

Well, the keyboard shorcuts generally correspond to menu options, and so the shortcut key is shown on the menu. Ctrl+F4 is the only one I can think of that's "hidden" (though it is standard Windows behaviour).

And I also encountered a strange error in the view pane when I was messing around with a new "Default Game". However, I was not able to reproduce it. Click picture for fullscreen.

Hmm, interesting. Did this occur as soon as you opened the View window, or did it just randomly happen later?

[TheMagician]

Hmm, interesting. Did this occur as soon as you opened the View window, or did it just randomly happen later?

It happened as soon as I opened the view window. This was also the very first time I opened the view window after downloading, extracting and starting AGS 2.8 beta 7 for the first time.

[SupSuper]

As a fellow Vista user, I really appreciate the built-in Games Explorer support. It sure is much easier than manually having the installer integrate the game by itself. However, the Developer Website field doesn't seem to work, since I don't get any link on the Developer Name, regardless of what URL I put in it. Also it'd be nice if we could add our own "boxart" like other games have, since they're easier to make than fancy icons.

I also remembered, given that Vista doesn't like having programs writing into the Program Files, how will the AGS Game Settings utility work?

Also, there's a bug with room importing. If you import a room with a non-standard name (not in the roomX.crm format), the game will stiull import it but not find it later on since it'll keep looking for roomX.crm.

As for some more crazy feature requests:
- Could you add some shortcuts to the tree view, for example, the Delete key to delete selected items and clicking on selected items to Rename them? (it's just how I instinctively do it before I remember I have to do it through the context menu)

- Some kind of built-in sound import. By this I mean being able to add music/sound/speech straight from the editor, instead of having to copy and rename them manually through Windows Explorer. Having them show up in the treeview and play them from there would also make them easier to reference during scripting.

[Pumaman]

It happened as soon as I opened the view window. This was also the very first time I opened the view window after downloading, extracting and starting AGS 2.8 beta 7 for the first time.

Hmm, strange. I'll see if I can reproduce it.

However, the Developer Website field doesn't seem to work, since I don't get any link on the Developer Name, regardless of what URL I put in it. Also it'd be nice if we could add our own "boxart" like other games have, since they're easier to make than fancy icons.

Yeah, the Developer Website (and Game Description) are rather strange, since the Game Explorer asks you for that data, but then doesn't seem to do anything with it. Perhaps they'll use those fields in Vista SP1

As for the boxart, that's a good point, I'll see if I can add support for that.

I also remembered, given that Vista doesn't like having programs writing into the Program Files, how will the AGS Game Settings utility work?

That's a good point. It will still work, but Vista does some "backwards compatibility" stuff involving creating a fake Program Files folder in your User directory and putting the files there instead, which is all rather messy. I'll have to think if there's an easy way to handle the game setup in this context -- perhaps I should move the settings to the registry.

Also, there's a bug with room importing. If you import a room with a non-standard name (not in the roomX.crm format), the game will stiull import it but not find it later on since it'll keep looking for roomX.crm.

Interesting, I'll look into it.

- Could you add some shortcuts to the tree view, for example, the Delete key to delete selected items and clicking on selected items to Rename them? (it's just how I instinctively do it before I remember I have to do it through the context menu)

That's a reasonable request, I'll look into it.

- Some kind of built-in sound import. By this I mean being able to add music/sound/speech straight from the editor, instead of having to copy and rename them manually through Windows Explorer. Having them show up in the treeview and play them from there would also make them easier to reference during scripting.

I'd like to do this, yes; sound and music deserve to be properly represented in the editor. However, time is dragging on, so I might postpone that for AGS 2.81.

[GarageGothic]

I also remembered, given that Vista doesn't like having programs writing into the Program Files, how will the AGS Game Settings utility work?

That's a good point. It will still work, but Vista does some "backwards compatibility" stuff involving creating a fake Program Files folder in your User directory and putting the files there instead, which is all rather messy. I'll have to think if there's an easy way to handle the game setup in this context -- perhaps I should move the settings to the registry.

I don't own Vista, and I don't really intend to get it until absolutely necessary. However compatibility is very important to me, as to anyone who wants their game distributed widely. I have been writing a module that stores additional settings in the acsetup.cfg file (such as sound volume and gamma setting as well as game-specific configurations). By reading them from the .cfg on game start as well as on restore, I avoid the problem of user settings being changed back when restoring an old savegame.
As I understand it from your discription, this method will still work due to the backwards compatibility, but is somehow less than optimal? Should I rethink the feature if I want to guarantee compatibility with Vista and/or future versions of AGS? Obviously it wouldn't be possible to read/write settings to the registry from within an AGS game without the use of a plugin.