I'm Thinking of Getting a Mac...

[deadsuperhero]

Hey, folks. I'm going to bring up something I've been thinking for the past month or two. I've been using Ubuntu (dualbooted with Windows) for a couple months, and I've been seriously considering getting a MacBook Pro, or an iMac.
My only concerns are:
-Cost
-Quality of OSX (is it good?)
-Quality of MacBooks/iMacs (Are they durable/reliable?)

I've tried Ubuntu, and I liked that. But, I'm sick of my PC. I've heard that the GNOME Desktop is similar to OSX, and it's got some lovely eyecandy. I've heard that it's excellent for animation, sound editing, web design, movie editing, and a lot more.
Also, a handful of games have been ported to Mac, as well as useful apps like Photoshop and Microsoft Office.
So, Mac users, how are Macs? Do AGS games run well on them? How are third-party apps in general?
I'm thinking of working my ass of for it, something to work towards. How are they?

[covox]

Even though Apple's grudging move towards the Intel platform removes some of the more unforgivable problems (DOSBox now runs at full speed, for instance, and MS Virtual PC is now consigned to the dustbin of history), I wouldn't recommend buying an Apple laptop. As someone who's worked in a software support position at a large Apple-using institution, I can tell you the following things about them:

• Mac OS X is much nicer than Windows, but regardless what you hear about people saying "oh it's UNIX underneath" installing Linux software is bloody hard.
  
• While the MacBook is reasonably priced, the MacBook Pro is shafting you by an order of $1000-$1500 AUD. You can get those same features for less.
  
• Sadly, the MacBook only has an Intel Hamster-Wheel 950 for a graphics card. However, the MacBook Pro has a more sporty NVIDIA 8 series. Both are very friendly with Linux.
  
• Apple laptops have the worst possible ventilation in the world ever, as evidenced by the forced suspend when you close the lid. (There are programs which hard-disable this, but chances are you'll end up cooking your machine). My personal philosophy is never to trust a computer without a large vent.
  
• You'll soon get very, very sick of using iTunes/QuickTime. That goes double if you've ever used Amarok.
  
• Codec support out of the box is a joke. Thankfully VLC is there to play things properly.
  
• When the laptop fails (and it will fail eventually), you will end up having to send it into an Apple support chop-shop to get it mended. Chances are it'll be the ever-mystical "logic board failure" which naturally requires a replacement. In short, be sure to get the laptop with a warranty.
  
• Productivity suite apps (e.g. Office, Adobe) are native, which is useful if you're into that sort of thing.
  

In closing, I'm very happy with my Linux-powered Toshiba

[deadsuperhero]

Well, actually, I was rather thinking of getting an iMac. In any case, I don't want to install Linux on it, mind you.

[Disco]

I'm not an owner, but I have used Macs extensively at university (studying Electronic Media and Graphics) over three years, and am interested in buying one for home use at some point. They are not as expensive as they used to be, and the Apple Store offers discounts to students, usually taking $100 off for something close to $1000 like a MacBook or iMac.

I have only used the G5 Power Tower Whatevers with a NEC display, and they are great for design use. I've never had one crash on me, and the OSX seems to get get updates rather more frequently than Windows, and costs considerably less to upgrade.

Not played any games on a Mac, AGS or otherwise, so can't help you there.

[Darth Mandarb]

I've yet to find something a Mac can do better and/or easier than a PC.

Macs do come in pretty boxes.

So if you want to spend much more money for a pretty box I say go for it.

[voh]

I've got a macbook and while I'm quite happy with it, that's mostly due to my dualboot situation with XP and OSX as chummy buddies.

I've since found out I am simply not a Mac user, I'm a windows user. But since the macbook functions fine as a windows machine as well I don't feel half an idiot that I would've felt purchasing an iBook.

The ventilation issues on my march issue macbook are none. My ventilator doesn't moo since a firmware update or 3 ago, which arrived a day after I bought it. I've left it on overnight, lid closed (without suspend) ever since. If not, I hibernate. Whoo windows

See if you can borrow a mac running OSX from a friend for a couple of days. Just because they say OSX is better than XP doesn't mean it is - I've found that out the hard way, by finding out I simply cannot work with OSX comfortably, since I'm simply too used to how it works in windows and I'm not that unhappy with that.

I would've been better off buying a cheaper laptop for windows.

Ubuntu with Gnome is nice, though I preferred Xubuntu (with xfce) since it's lighter than Gnome and looks similar. But even then, since I wanted Ubuntu on my other system, and I had hardware issues, it's now running XP as well

[Nikolas]

Main question:

What are you using your computer for?

I use it for music, and if I ever go to Mac, I will have to move to either pro tools or Logic, since Sonar is only PC and Cubase is not really THAT good on a Mac. I will have to abandon half the plug - ins I use, since they're PC only, and some instruments (that I've bought that are PC only), and also the GREAT free reverb SIR (PC only). Additionally all new Eastwest products are not Pro Tools supported yet. Plus I would have to at least buy the new sequencer... That is 600$ extra for me.

I imagine pretty much the same goes for art.

Macs ARE more expensive, and there is this monopoly that can be problematic, if you are used to the plenty of alternatives in a PC. But they do seem to be more relieable... And can have extra stuff on, which are not really available to a PC (for example 8 GB of RAM, which is a bless for a musician, etc...)

Getting "bored"/"tired" from your computer seems a little thin reason to switch, but then again it's up to you, isn't it?

[voh]

Now now, Nikolas, don't be tellin' untruths now.

The amount of RAM a system has, has nothing to do with whether it's a Mac or a PC, it has to do with the hardware. The reason that the Mac Pro's support 8 gigs of RAM is exactly why it's so much more expensive.

People still use the same ideas when discussing the difference between PCs and Macs, as if they're still built on different hardware platforms. They're all Intel nowadays, PC hardware. The distinction between PC/Mac is now merely between OSX/Win, because there's no distinction in hardware anymore.

[Nikolas]

Ok, I agree now with vista you can go upwards (don't think you can go to 128 GB yet, or if you can it's hugely expensive)...

Re: differences, it's all applications, not only OSX/Win, plus monopoly in Mac. At least to my eyes

[Khris]

I've been forced to work with and support Macs at work for four years now.
They crash, they overheat; both the PowerMac G5 and the Powerbook G4 had their hard drives replaced two times already each.
We use Retrospect for the Backups and restoring the data is lengthy and tiresome (you have to reinstall OS X completely before you can restore anything).

DON'T switch to a Mac unless you NEED to. They are just like iPods: pretty, but over-priced and error-prone.

After using them extensively for four years and working with a great variety of both free and commercial apps, I haven't encountered ANY reason to switch to them. Not a single one.

[Peevish]

Well, as a 2-year Mac user, I can say that the odds of a Mac crashing are far, far lower than the odds of a PC crashing. Thought I'm sure Linux crashes the least. I'm on a previously-used G4 from about 5 or 6 years ago, and it has never crashed. Programs yes, but never the OS.

As for getting sick of Quicktime and iTunes, as ever there are tons of Mac-friendly freeware programs, just as with any computer (MPlayer is fabutastic on Windows, Mac, and Miscellaneous).

OSX is nice, though the switch from a PC can be infuriating because it's so show-offy. It's like playing on a Fisher-Price computer. Steve Jobs likes toys. If you're serious about video, FinalCut Pro is pretty much the end-all be-all of video programs. Keep in mind that it's Quicktime-based, and Flash-based sites like YouTube HATE Quicktime.

Finally, AGS. You cannot run the AGS Editor without emulation, which is proving to be a nightmare for me. You can download the RunTime to play the games, but it won't play anything newer than AGS 2.5. SInce most everyone's on 2.7 now, it means not playing anything new, unless, again, you emulate Windows. I did a lot of study on this, and there are no API-wrappers (like WINE) that will both work on a Mac and actually run .exe's. Unless you're a developer and you know your way around binaries, using an API-wrapper to run AGS games on a Mac is unlikely. So again, emulation is about the only way to go if you're playing something new.

A last note: keep in mind that the new Intel Macs are VERY new, and the kinks are still being worked out. Many programs are not working with Intel at top-speed just yet.

Oh, and yes, repairing a Mac is a pain. The so-called "Genius Bars" at Apple Stores are all geeks with Asberger's Syndrome. But I can vouch that they don't break down vey often.

Can't aspeak for laptops though, I'm on a desktop.

[voh]

Had my macbook for nearly half a year now, and have had no issues whatsoever. Everything's in tip-top shape and I only download firmware updates when I realize there's been one released through a random website I'll surf across (since I spend 99.99% of my macbook time in XP).

But windows runs flawlessly on the machine and it's still a designer laptop which barely weighs anything, has a high quality screen (which I adore, it's finally gotten me over to the TFT widescreen side of the monitor argument) and the keyboard is divine once gotten used to.

So all in all, I'm happy with my purchase, even if I'm just using it to run XP on it and every application I've spent years getting to know.

The Apple freeware world is disappointing compared to the PC freeware world. Once that changes, maybe I'll give it a chance. The only reason I'd be purchasing Leopard is because of the version of Bootcamp it'll be shipping with, with all new functionality and improved drivers.

I can but wait

[frlane]

"I've yet to find something a Mac can do better and/or easier than a PC."

1.  Video editing - Final Cut Pro and iMovie are Mac only and are far better than PC alternatives.
2.  Casual Photo cataloguing.  Nothing compares to iPhoto
3.  iWeb (Mac only) creates websites much more quickly than any other program I've tried on Windows or Mac.  It has limitations for high-end sites, but for casual sites it is great.
4.  It's the only computer that runs OSX, Windows and Linux

"Macs do come in pretty boxes."
Thats true by a mile!

"So if you want to spend much more money for a pretty box I say go for it."
Try creating a comparable machine at Dell.com and you will find that the price is very similar and sometimes cheaper.  However, Apple does not sell the low-end machines that Dell sells for $300-500

[voh]

1.  Video editing - Final Cut Pro and iMovie are Mac only and are far better than PC alternatives.

Adobe Premiere and After Effects are available for both systems. To me, these programs beat Final Cut Pro and definitely iMovie by a mile. And I studied for it, so respect my awesome (don't, really).

2.  Casual Photo cataloguing.  Nothing compares to iPhoto

Picasa, to me, is a lot better than iPhoto will ever be. The effects available in iPhoto are fun but useless to the true photographer.

3.  iWeb (Mac only) creates websites much more quickly than any other program I've tried on Windows or Mac.  It has limitations for high-end sites, but for casual sites it is great.

There's no web designer around who'll use iWeb to create a website. Most fellow webdesigners use a notepad-style tool like Notepad++ or UltraEdit rather than use a WYSIWYG editor.

4.  It's the only computer that runs OSX, Windows and Linux

It runs them with the greatest amount of ease, HOWEVER. Any system with similar specs to a mac system can run OSX86, which is OSX ripped, basically, and linux and windows on an x86 system are a given. Basically, yeah, the mac offers you an easier way (and more legal, to a certain extent) way of running all three types (where linux really needs to be replaced with *nix), but it's not impossible to do the same on a regular PC.

Don't forget that the new macs are PCs with EFI which only limits the amount of operating systems run, not expands on them. Any PC may run OSX, windows and *nix.

It's a matter of preference in the end. Pay extra for the mac look, or don't. You can get a similar non-Apple system for approximately 100-200 USD less if it lacks the Apple badge.

I still love my macbook to bits, but if I just wanted a similar laptop by any brand, I could've gotten one cheaper.

[Azaron]

The amount of RAM a system has, has nothing to do with whether it's a Mac or a PC, it has to do with the hardware. The reason that the Mac Pro's support 8 gigs of RAM is exactly why it's so much more expensive.

And don't forget that the type of operating system is just as important. Just because your motherboard supports like 1TB of ram doesn't mean your OS does. Currently there are 2 types of OSes that I am aware of. 32-bit and 64-bit. A 32-bit OS will only support up to 4GB total RAM throughout the machine (this includes any video cards or other PCI memory sources) whereas a 64-bit OS will support much much more (you don't really even have to worry about how much a 64-bit OS can support given current technology.).
So, it's not just about the hardware it's about the software running the hardware.

[Radiant]

Wow, this is turning into a flame war

In my experience, Macs work smoothly, and effectively, and well. As the commercials used to say, "it just works"! It is less prone to crashing, slowing down, and even viruses than PCs are. And it was capable of fluid multitasking beween four or five applications back in 1995, something Windows took at least five years more to do well without choking.

[Oliwerko]

In my experience, Macs work smoothly, and effectively, and well. As the commercials used to say, "it just works"! It is less prone to crashing, slowing down, and even viruses than PCs are. And it was capable of fluid multitasking beween four or five applications back in 1995, something Windows took at least five years more to do well without choking.

Very nice conclusion. I (Well, actually my parents) own a pair of iBooks. Exactly like Radiant said, less crashing that PC, dozens of applications running simulatenously, almost no viruses. But. The price. When parents bought the first iBook of the two, it cost 100 000 Sk (Slovak crowns, too lazy to count to dollars, sorry) in comparison to a decent PC that cost 40 000 Sk that day. I don't know how it's today, though.

[Darth Mandarb]

If you are any bit competant you can run a PC just fine.  I've been using XP now for several years and I've never once crashed it.  No BSOD at all.  I've had it freeze up a few times ... but it then catches up and keeps on going.  But that's only when I've got a few browsers tabs going, Dreamweaver, Outlook, Photoshop, Coldfusion, and winAmp all going at the same time and is usually because jRun goes wonky and sucks up all the RAM (which has nothing to do with the stability of the OS)

Macs, as I said before, come in pretty boxes but they simply aren't "better" than PCs.  I'm not saying PCs are better either but for me, personally, I stick with PC just 'cause it's what I know.  I can't stand "mac snobs".

I do love the commercials for them lately though ... it's hilarious how they're actually calling their target market stupid and getting away with it in flying colors.  Cracks me up.

[Oliwerko]

HAHAHA I like the "Mac snobs" expression. I hate them too.
But: Macs are better in areas, where PC sucks and PCs are good where Macs suck.
That's what I think. I remember the first apple macintosh in our family back in 1995 ( I guess, I was 5 years old ). It's a 100 Mhz processor with some VERY expensive graphics card ( 2 MB ram, or so ) and 256 (!) MB of regular RAM. It still sits on my father's desk and runs perfectly. 

[Darth Mandarb]

Don't get me wrong, I don't dislike Macs.  I think OSX is great and, yes, it's incredibly stable. 

However ...

When you stop to consider that the mac OS runs only on macs you realize that it's much easier to design a stable platform in that light.  Windows XP runs on a damn near infinite number of architectures/platforms.  It's much more open and flexible in that regard than mac's OS.  If mac had to re-design their OS to run on the wide range of platforms that Windows runs on it would be just as succeptable to viruses and crashes.  Probably more so since they'd be "new" to the game.

Considering the scope of computers that windows runs on it's remarkably stable in my opinion.  And, like I said, if you are careful and not lazy you can easily prevent [most] viruses from infecting your computer.  It's not window's fault that it warns you not to open email attachements from strangers and people still, time and time again, open them anyway.  That's just stupid users.

I'd be curious to know, since everybody loves saying it, what can Macs do better than PCs?  I know that PCs definitely have the edge on mac for computer games and the like, but what edge does a Mac have over a PC?  ** Elimintate any reference to Web development, photoshop, video editing, dvd production - I've already shown I can do them just as well on my PC as my buddy that is a mac snob **