My Plan for Paedophiles

[Rui 'Trovatore' Pires]

I tell you one thing.

If this turns out to be true and the police don't get there in time, and if they're still in Algarve by then, those guys are gonna get *lynched*.

[Meowster]

I don't think trying to figure out who's farted in a room is comparable to trying to find your abducted daughter.

If the McCann's accidentally killed their daughter, I find it very unlikely that they would


1. be able to find a place to hide the body, that was not found by police, search dogs, searching people, and the media

2. be able to act completely normal at the dinner table with their friends, as though their daughter hadn't just died. This is particularly unlikely, given that it would almost definitely have been an accidental death... nobody can be completely calm and cool and collected after just accidentally murdering their own child. Even if they managed some kind of unbelievable act at the dinner table, there still would have been signs that for instance, Kate McCann had been crying before joining the table. Unless you really believe that someone who accidentally killed their daughter didn't shed a single tear of grief?

3. keep the body hidden for 25 days in the hot summer weather until they could move it with their hire car? Do you have any idea what happens to a body after 25 days in that kind of heat? Even if it was wrapped up extremely well, gasses would cause the body to bloat and probably burst/damage anything it was wrapped up in. Furthermore, it would absolutely stink. I once walked over a bridge with a dead body wrapped in black sacks underneath. It had only been there for two days but already the fairly cool Irish summer had caused the body to stink, making the entire area around reek of the unmistakable stench of rotting flesh. It was an unbearable, sickening smell... one that would be impossible to hide or cover up.

4. Assuming they somehow managed to do all of this, they then managed to sneak the body out of its hiding place and quietly dump it somewhere, and not get noticed by any of the watchful media!

5. keep and encourage the media whirlwind around themselves. This is not the behaviour of somebody with something to hide. It would have been perfectly easy to appear just as victimised while maintaining a much lower profile.




There's a lot of speculation about this DNA evidence they've apparently found... and the fact that there was the "scent of death" on Kate (not confirmed as far as I know, but for heavens sake the woman is a doctor! These dogs can detect the smell of corpses/blood from as long ago as, what was it... 7 years? I think it may be possible that a doctor could encounter a dead person in that time...)



What people say about the McCann's acting suspiciously by flying around europe... let's say you believe the theory that they accidentally killed her (I assume nobody thinks that it was a calculated murder in the middle of their holiday...) even if you did believe this, then there's still no reason that they would jet around europe, as you put it, to raise awareness of their daughter. These actions only show to me their determination to find their daughter. There was a real possibility at first (it seemed) that Madeleine may have been abducted and taken to foreign countries, and they were trying to raise awareness of her image so that people might recognise her. This, instead of sitting at home doing nothing. What's the problem with that?

Why do you find it suspicious that they would try to get their daughter back by raising awareness of her disappearance? Why do you think they'd find it advantageous to try and focus the attention of every single country on them, for even more people to scrutinise their every moment?

Finally, if you watch any interview or video of these people, you can see that they're people with nothing to hide. At no point have they shown signs of dishonesty, or fear of answering certain questions, or acted in any way suspicious.



In the face of all this apparent new evidence, I'm still quite certain that the McCann's are innocent. I think the arguments people have against them (How come Kate hasn't burst into tears on camera? How come they flew around Europe trying to raise awareness of their daughter? How come they haven't given up yet? How come Kate panicked the very moment she realised her daughter was missing? etc etc etc)... these arguments are all kind of lame and really, I think if people stand back and realise that these are people... parents of young children... not superhuman expert liars and calculated killers... they'll see that it would really be quite impossible for her parents to have "pulled this off".

In your head if you're imagining it like some kind of well-written murder mystery novel... yeah sure, the parents could be cold-blooded killers who laughed and dined as their first born daughter's body grew colder by the minute, expertly hidden by the mother, so well that nobody found it even though the area was combed...  until 25 days later when they smuggled the body to some genius burial ground... and all the while maintaining that they are victims and focusing as much of the worlds media attention on themselves as possible because they're trying to live out their dream of being famous...  I mean, that could be the plot of a story, sure. But it's actually not very likely. At all. Because really, human beings can't act like that unless they're clinically insane, and if someone was THAT insane then I reckon somebody would have noticed by now

I find it absolutely sickening that the vatican has removed all mention of the McCanns from their website. Whether or not it should have been up there in the first place is another story, but removing their support in the face of a twist in the investigation? Very, very cowardly.

[Andail]

I think one thing you can say for sure is that there is absolutely no way you can "see" if they're innocent or not by how they react or appear.

Finally, if you watch any interview or video of these people, you can see that they're people with nothing to hide. At no point have they shown signs of dishonesty, or fear of answering certain questions, or acted in any way suspicious.

No, Yufster, the human psyche is capable of marvellous things. Even if they did accidentally kill their daughter, they'd probably not believe it themselves by now. The human mind has incredible defense mechanisms.

It's perfectly natural that the police are investigating the parents' part in the whole affair, considering that such deaths - be them accidental or not - are stastistically speaking most likely to be caused by a family member.

Edit:
As for the whole paedophile issue, I recommend watching the movie Little Children. Even though you may not be expected to sympathise with the paedophile, the movie does a good job on describing the minds of those are the most hellbent on spewing their hate all over him; those with great sense of guilt or angst themselves.

I have an extremely hard time understanding how you can not feel sorry for a paedophile. Growing up and realising that you have such tendencies must be the worst nightmare ever. Obviously, nobody chooses to develop such a sick mind.

[Tuomas]

I read about this in the newspaper yesterday and had a discussion with my friend. Basically what he thought was that if the police have announced her a suspect, that means they have arrested her and must have proof, so she must be guilty. I never found any proof, at least not in the paper. There was an injection needle without the girls DNA, there was blood which didn't belong to the girl, there was the girls blood in the car I suppose yeah, but imo it doesn't prove anything. I'll be very surprised if it's the mum/dad/both that did it. But I don't think so.

[Rui 'Trovatore' Pires]

Wow. So basically your friend thinks she's a suspect so she must be guilty?
Might as well do away with trials and everything, then. After all, the legal system clearly hinges on the police's omniscience and incapability of failing.

I heard some things on the gravepine, from fairly reliable sources. So my opinion is, the parents did it, maybe accidently, and then not-so-accidently disposed of the body.

Two of the most interesting things about this case:

1 - If someone else got in, why did he/she take just Maddie? There were 3 kids. It's even safer to take the three. If you can subdue one, you can subdue three, and anyway, why leave witnesses?

2 - By all accounts, throughout the ensuing confusion of cops, people, searching for Maddie, etc, the twins *slept through the whole thing*. How natural is that?

Little-known embarassing fact: that beach the McCann's were in is a sort of non-official hang-out for British tourists who are into "swing" - exchanging wives and husbands. One of those things that the Portuguese tourists don't know or care much about, but that people who actually live and work there know and don't say much about.

Now, I only heard it on the gravepine. But I am fairly confident about my sources.

Will comment on the thread again when the McCann's are shown guilty.

Yufster, re Vatican - agreed.

[Stupot]

What I don't understand is that why, now after all these months of stubbornly staying in Portugal (except to go on awareness-raising shinanegins*), have they suddenly decided to come back to England... oh yeh I forgot... the police are onto them now and they wanna get as far away as possible.

*I know I spelled that wrong, but the spell-check only gave me a choice of 'languishingly', 'languishing', 'Washingtonian', 'Washingtonians'  and 'moonshine'.... I think the guys at Mozilla had a bit too much of the latter when made Firefox.

[Tuomas]

I heard some things on the gravepine

through the grapevine eh ?

1 - If someone else got in, why did he/she take just Maddie? There were 3 kids. It's even safer to take the three. If you can subdue one, you can subdue three, and anyway, why leave witnesses?

Yeah, well, obviously if I were to kidnap a kid (which I didn't) I would only take one since it would be a lot easier to look after only one than trying to keep 3 of them in secret and shut up. (which I still didn't do).

2 - By all accounts, throughout the ensuing confusion of cops, people, searching for Maddie, etc, the twins *slept through the whole thing*. How natural is that?

You'd be surprised how well some children sleep. If my brother and sister (who I didn't kidnap by the way) had spent a long day in warmth or outside, say during the summer, playing around, they don't wake up just like that.

What I don't understand is that why, now after all these months of stubbornly staying in Portugal (except to go on awareness-raising shinanegins*), have they suddenly decided to come back to England... oh yeh I forgot... the police are onto them now and they wanna get as far away as possible.

Are you sure they left because they were suspects or that they were made suspects because they left. as far as I know, a suspect isn't allowed to leave the country while under suspicion.

[Lionmonkey]

What's a paedophile? Are you one of them?

[Rui 'Trovatore' Pires]

through the grapevine eh ?

Argh, you caught me!

Yeah, well, obviously if I were to kidnap a kid (which I didn't) I would only take one since it would be a lot easier to look after only one than trying to keep 3 of them in secret and shut up. (which I still didn't do).

But you aren't opperating on the drive of lust/desire/need that drives a peadophile to do these things. Their logical circuits have already been overriden at that point. Your argument does have logic on its side, but the logic of a non-paedophile won't help us much.

You'd be surprised how well some children sleep. If my brother and sister (who I didn't kidnap by the way) had spent a long day in warmth or outside, say during the summer, playing around, they don't wake up just like that.

With your sister having been kidnapped, your parents in an emotional wreck, everyone coming in to search the room, etc? That's not "not waking up like that", that is sleeping the sleep of the unconscious.

Which makes me wonder why the parents refused to let the doctors test the kids during that initial crisis. Hush-hush.

Stupot - probably shenanigans, but there might be a double 'n' somewhere in there.

[Andail]

Are you sure they left because they were suspects or that they were made suspects because they left. as far as I know, a suspect isn't allowed to leave the country while under suspicion.

Are you very familiar with Portuguese law? They are indeed suspects, but I think the Portuguese police are quite confident the Mccanns won't escape if they get called back to court. It's not exactly the Jackal they're dealing with.

[Tuomas]

quite possible, just applying my knowledge of the local law here to what happened some kilometres away. after all, all I can do is speculate.

[Andail]

quite possible, just applying my knowledge of the local law here to what happened some kilometres away. after all, all I can do is speculate.

Tampere is some kilometres away from Portugal? You must enjoy the hot summers down there!
Sorry, I'll stop being a bastard and splitting hairs now!

[Meowster]

What I don't understand is that why, now after all these months of stubbornly staying in Portugal (except to go on awareness-raising shinanegins*), have they suddenly decided to come back to England... oh yeh I forgot... the police are onto them now and they wanna get as far away as possible.

They decided to come back to England long before they were made suspects, it has only been delayed by this new turn of events.

And to be honest, I could understand even if they HAD have decided now. Did everybody see the video of Mrs McCann walking to her interview, being jeered by the crowd? Absolutely disgusting behaviour, to jeer at the mother of a woman who has lost her child... nobody has any definite proof she did anything. Disgusting behaviour. They have no support out there, and are being treated like villains even though nobody has any proof... now the police line of enquiry has changed and they firmly believe madeleine is dead... I'm not surprised the McCann's want to return to England, where at least they have their family and friends and can try and move on from this.

Andail of course the human mind is an amazing thing, but accidentally killing your child while on holiday does not suddenly snap your mindset into that of a criminal mastermind.

Also consider: how did they hide a rotting, stinking body for 25 days, while being closely watched by the media and with people constantly searching the surrounding area and apartment? How did they hide it that well when it was an accident that they hadn't planned or accounted for? Unlikely.

Why take one child instead of three? Because it's easier to quietly take one child and keep her quiet and slip away with her, than it is to take an armful of children, try and keep your hands over all their mouths while you drag them all through a window...? Come on, "why didn't they take all the kids" is a ridiculous question to ask.


As for the children sleeping... that's unconfirmed speculation. But at the same time, my little sisters would sleep through a lot if they'd been having an exciting holiday all day, including swimming/tennis etc... and then been given Calpol (a perfectly legal drowsy medicine that children all over the world are given). So we can't be too sure about this. I admit it sounds a bit suspect, but at the same time I still stand firm in my belief that they're innocent... simply by the way they have reacted, and by the sheer impossibility of actually being able to pull it off (as I said, hiding a rotting body for 25 days is the thing that does it for me... impossible task).

Also, if they HAD given the child an overdose of some kind of sleeping pill or something, it would have taken a while to kill her. This makes it likely that the first time Kate DID notice her children dead was when she 'claims' to have noticed her missing. I also find it highly unlikely that her first reaction would not have been to scream for help when she realised something was wrong - Madeleine could not have been dead for long or else her fluids would have begun to leak out of her body and stain the sheets (and then it would be so obvious that she'd died in the apartment from an overdose, which could be sampled from the fluids on the mattress and sheets, that even the Portuguese police couldn't have missed it...

Assuming her child wasn't dead for long at this stage and still felt warm (as human bodies do for many hours after death), her first reaction wouldn't be to dispose of her daughter's still-warm body in an ingenious yet amazingly quick-thinking way.

I don't know. Whether or not they're great parents, went out and partied while their children were alone etc... I don't think people should let that cloud their judgement as to whether they're killers or not. From the circumstances alone it seems pretty clear to me that it would have been impossible for them to do.

[Rui 'Trovatore' Pires]

Did everybody see the video of Mrs McCann walking to her interview, being jeered by the crowd? Absolutely disgusting behaviour, to jeer at the mother of a woman who has lost her child... nobody has any definite proof she did anything. Disgusting behaviour.

It's human nature. Emotionally, they've preyed on the whole world. They got sympathy. They got a blessing, or a whatever, from the pope. Everyone was so concerned with the thing. And the ones who didn't get all mushy and gave money and etc had to listen to the poor parents say how they though the Portuguese police wasn't competent.

And now it turns out they *may* have been a part of the whole thing? Mob mentality. Lynch 'em. It's not pretty, but it's even understandable and natural.

[Meowster]

They MAY have been. Not "they murdered their little girl". People are jumping to conclusions and we can see that the evidence is sketchy... remember, most of what we know is speculation and what we've read from sensationalist newspapers.

To have jeered at Mrs McCann at that moment was an amazingly disgusting thing that has no excuse, because nobody knows for sure what happened on that night. It's very possible that those people jeered at an innocent woman, the victim of a horrific crime.

[Rui 'Trovatore' Pires]

People are jumping to conclusions

Of course they are.

It's very possible that those people jeered at an innocent woman, the victim of a horrific crime.

Of course it is. I re-state my point:

Mob mentality. It's not pretty, but it's even understandable and natural.

We, as a people, are a selfish bunch, but we tend to get passionate about causes. VERY passionate. I remember well the days leading to the independence of Timor... we get *very* passionate about sudden causes. And all of a sudden, a pretty little girl gets kidnapped in our country, on her holidays. Cause-fodder. And not everyone went into the "cause", but many, many, many, many, many people did.

Back to the jeering - was it wrong? Maybe - if the McCanns are innocent, yes. If not, no. But that's oretty much beside the point, because to be disgusted about the jeering means either having no real conception of all the things that the mob mentality is capable of, or having no conception at all of how this case affected the most well-meaning folks in Portugal.

Yeah, we like causes. We're also a pretty unforgiving bunch if we feel we've been played with and made idiots of, along with our police force. Go figure.

EDIT - In fact, immediate jeering and dislike is just as unwarranted and silly as the immediate compassion they got back when the kid disappeared. All the people saying "they left their kids alone! They took no precautions! They weren't competent parents!" were hushed. That's also silly and unwarranted, and also rather disgusting.

[Stupot]

I can't truly say if I believe they are responsible, just that their behavior doesn't seem consistent, to me, of parent's who children go missing.

Let's say they didn't murder Maddy and they didn't kill her accidentally... Maybe they still know what happened to her.  Perhaps they sold her to some child-prostitution racket.  That's why they seem to have sketchy witnesses left, right and centre, because it's all been set up to look like a kidnapping.

Or maybe she was kidnapped, but the Mccanns knew about it which is why they went off to a restaurant leaving herunprotected... this theory is half-baked I know, and doesn't explain the blood findings, but hell, everybody else is speculating, and I like bandwagons.

[Meowster]

Also for people who are suspicious about the children sleeping through the commotion:

Check out the latest video of Gerry giving a statement to the press. The boy is slung over his arm, sound asleep despite the racket and commotion going on around him

[Rui 'Trovatore' Pires]

Give the boy a drug test.

Anyway, things have gone past the point of alarm, haven't they? Now it's got to the point where the kids are tired of the whole thing. Doesn't allay any suspicions.

[Nikolas]

There was a case about 10 years ago in Greece, with a guy named Manolis Douris.

The guy lost his child, 6 year old Nikos, who was later found dead (and raped btw). Throughout the whole week the dear father was crying, etc, mourning in front of cameras, at the funeral, to relatives, etc.

Of course you do realise that it was his own father who raped and killed his son...

go figure...