Who else here uses Adobe Audition to record your guitar music?

[Snake]

I've been using Adobe Audition for years (used to be CoolEdit Pro) to record my music. My music consist of just guitars, lead, rhythm, one song has a bass riff. Sadly no drums

I'm in need for some pointers and tips on recording my guitar properly - equalizing, sound level, etc...

I burned some of my songs onto a CD yesterday afternoon and I'm not too sure if it's my radio or I'm just not recording right. My music sounds okay on the computer but when I heard it on the radio it seemed to be "cloudy" and/or "muffled". It also sounds like it is more on the left side than the right, but in Adobe, both the left and right side waves are equal.
When I record it also records a tad below the center line instead of perfectly centered (in the wave window). What am I doing wrong?

Here's what I've got:

*I've got a Gibson Epiphone.
*I'm using a DOD effects processor (oldie - only one bank button works).
*I'm recording through the sound input jack - not the microphone jack.
*I open up recording options in Volume Control in Windows and record through Stereo Output. The microphone seems to be too loud and I can't adjust it, it seems.
*I'm a fan of using AcousticDuet when using no chorus through the processor.

So how do you guys record your guitar and make it sound good? No matter what I do, it's not clear and sounds like crap on the radio. I still have one more radio to test it on and it's a stereo, but I doubt I'll get different results.

I also have a grunge distortion pedal by Digitech that I could use if you think it might be a conflick between the DOD's and Adobe's equalizers.

So any tips and tricks? How do you get your guitar to sound like it's been professionally recorded? I've heard some of your music around here in past years and it sounds like you recorded it in a fucking recording studio

And thank you for any tips that you guys give me,


--Snake

[DoorKnobHandle]

If your stereo-waves (left and right channel) are about equal on the computer and in the program, then it's the radio's panning. Maybe there's a knob somewhere that goes from left to right and it currently is turned more to the left or the right speaker is just broken.

So you plug guitar->fx->line-in (instead of mic-in) of your soundcard? Does that FX unit include a pre-amp? If not, then your signal is not amplified at all (there's a pre-amp behind the mic-in of your sound-card, but that one will suck for recording anything but voice unless you own a very good, dedicated card) and that is not good.

Currently, I use a Behringer V-Amp, which is a cheap FX-unit that does include a pre-amp and this works pretty good in between guitar and line-in. For better solutions, I can also play through my normal amp, place a mic (Shure SM57) in front of it, plug the mic->mic-preamp and then into the line-in of the soundcard.

Hope this helps a bit. Definitely try to play your music on several systems (kitchen radio, bedroom radio, car, whatever), I suspect that if your music sounds good through normal pc-speakers, it should usually be okay for the rest and your problem is the radio.

[Snake]

If your stereo-waves (left and right channel) are about equal on the computer and in the program, then it's the radio's panning.

Yes, they are equal. Last night I came to the conclusion that it must have been the radio itself. Sometimes you have to readjust the wires in the back anyway for the right speaker to work.

I just tested the CD on the stereo outside and it seems to sound alright, left and right speakers were equal when they were supposed to be. It also sounded a little clearer, but not the way I'd like.
The best way I can describe the sound is if I recorded my music directly to a cassette.

So you plug guitar->fx->line-in (instead of mic-in) of your soundcard? Does that FX unit include a pre-amp?

I'm not too sure if I know what a pre-amp is, but yeah, I record through the line-in.

I can also fool around with recording with the distortion pedal again and just do chorus through Adobe. I can't remember why I stopped recording with it though. I'll have to try again.

Here are two more questions (for anybody) that I thought of while I was outside that I forgot to ask earlier:
1. What's a good way to record a distorted section of a song instantly following clean/chorused guitar? And, how's a good way to record clean and distortion at the same time (ie, clean rhythm with a distorted guitar doing a solo, or clean rhythm with a distorted rhythm)? I guess this question has to do with keeping them the same volume or whatever. My girlfriend will sometimes decribe these parts of the songs as "scary" It's nice and clean then BANG!
2. CDRWs. I've never tried and would assume no, but is it possible to burn a music CD on a CDRW? This way I could test my songs without waisting a ton of CDs. If so, does the finalization of the CD still make it final? Or can I erase it like any other?


--Snake

[EldKatt]

*I'm recording through the sound input jack - not the microphone jack.

Since you're not saying otherwise, I assume you're talking about some cheap (perhaps integrated?) soundcard here... and that's one of your bad bottlenecks at this time. A cheap soundcard is cheap soundcard, you get what you pay for, and cheap soundcard means cheap sound. That's basically it. Aside from a decent soundcard, you'll also need some kind of pre-amp at some point in the chain, as dkh says. Only then do I think it really makes sense to talk about equalization and stuff. Of course, if you're firmly set on not spending any money there are probably things you could do to cover up the crappiness of the dry recording, but it'll never be the same as starting off with decent material.

When I record it also records a tad below the center line instead of perfectly centered (in the wave window). What am I doing wrong?

This is called DC offset, and it's probably a result of the cheap A/D circuitry in your cheap soundcard. However, this is one problem that is rather easy to get around. Audition should have a means of correcting it (look for "DC offset" in menus or the manual). IIRC Cool Edit Pro had it conveniently included in the normalization plugin.

Definitely try to play your music on several systems (kitchen radio, bedroom radio, car, whatever), I suspect that if your music sounds good through normal pc-speakers, it should usually be okay for the rest and your problem is the radio.

What? Unless I'm missing something and "PC speakers" nowadays means "kick-ass monitors", I disagree firmly. Most of the stuff people call "PC speakers" or "computer speakers" (though the former, to me, has always meant the little speaker on your motherboard that makes beeps...) are pretty bad.

That said, I'm all for the idea of making sure your music sounds good on a variety of sound systems--in particular the kind you're expecting your audience to be using.



This post is getting huge, but I'll reply to the post that appeared just before this one as well.

1. What's a good way to record a distorted section of a song instantly following clean/chorused guitar? And, how's a good way to record clean and distortion at the same time (ie, clean rhythm with a distorted guitar doing a solo, or clean rhythm with a distorted rhythm)? I guess this question has to do with keeping them the same volume or whatever. My girlfriend will sometimes decribe these parts of the songs as "scary" It's nice and clean then BANG!

Eh, good mixing? I haven't used Audition, so I don't know any specifics, but I hope it does multitrack stuff (if not, get something else right now). So record the clean guitar to one track, the distorted guitar to another, and adjust their volumes to your liking. Maybe I don't understand your question?

2. CDRWs. I've never tried and would assume no, but is it possible to burn a music CD on a CDRW? This way I could test my songs without waisting a ton of CDs. If so, does the finalization of the CD still make it final? Or can I erase it like any other?

Well... yes. That's the point of CDRW. In this respect, audio CDs are no different from data CDs. It's all data.

[Snake]

The speakers I have aren't the best, but they work just fine. What I call "real music" sounds perfectly fine like it always has - don't need a goddamn surround sound system around my computer. If I want to hear movies like I'm in the theater, I simply put stereo headphones on. There is nothing wrong with the speakers that I own.

The sound card that I'm using is the sound card that came with the computer years ago. When I get a chance I'll look into decent sound cards.

This is called DC offset, and it's probably a result of the cheap A/D circuitry in your cheap soundcard.

Alrighty, well, you could certainly phrase it a little nicer than that I get the picture already - CHEAP CHEAP CHEAP! Hopefully I'm just missunderstanding you, but you seem to have a hair across your ass. I suggest plucking it, shaving it, or even some of that hair removal cream, I don't give a shit, but for some reason it seems you've got some personal vendetta for cheap sound cards and cheap people - which I'm neither. I just had a goddamn question, that's all.

That said, I'm all for the idea of making sure your music sounds good on a variety of sound systems--in particular the kind you're expecting your audience to be using.

I agree.
My main audience is me (down the road I'd like to give a CD to my brothers, but that's it), but I just wanted to know if there is a certain procedure I should be taking in recording my music a little better. Some songs sound better than others, I really believe that it has nothing to do with my sound card, but the way that I'm recording/editing. Hence, wanting to know how everyone else goes about recording their guitars.

Thank you for your help, guys,

//--EDIT--//

Eh, good mixing? I haven't used Audition, so I don't know any specifics, but I hope it does multitrack stuff (if not, get something else right now). So record the clean guitar to one track, the distorted guitar to another, and adjust their volumes to your liking. Maybe I don't understand your question?

Yeah, it does multitrack, which I use constantly. I do the same thing you just suggested. I just need more practice I guess Yes, you understood my question perfectly

Well... yes. That's the point of CDRW. In this respect, audio CDs are no different from data CDs. It's all data.

Well, that's good news. I thought for some reason you couldn't make an audio CD work in a radio unless it was just a regular CDR. Anyway, thanks!


--Snake

[DoorKnobHandle]

Definitely try to play your music on several systems (kitchen radio, bedroom radio, car, whatever), I suspect that if your music sounds good through normal pc-speakers, it should usually be okay for the rest and your problem is the radio.

What? Unless I'm missing something and "PC speakers" nowadays means "kick-ass monitors", I disagree firmly. Most of the stuff people call "PC speakers" or "computer speakers" (though the former, to me, has always meant the little speaker on your motherboard that makes beeps...) are pretty bad.

From my personal experience, if you're going to home-record a track and plug your guitar into a cheap pre-amp and then directly in your normal computer, completely normal computer-speakers (maybe not the cheapest ones of course) are perfectly fine and well enough. Kick-ass studio monitors only make sense if you have the right recording-equipment and expect a certain quality.

Anyways, let me describe two possible ways again (don't think I made myself too clear in my first post) on how to record guitars:

- buy "Pro Tools" by Digidesign (software) in a bundle with an MBox (hardware) and a microphone (350-700€), then use that to simply record your guitar-amplifier (of course, for this, you should also own a rather good amp and a room where you can turn it up and make it sound good etc.) This is the expensive and best-sounding way.

- or buy a guitar-interface. Basically a box where you can plug your guitar in normally and it's connected to your computer and it'll record for you into the program of your choice (such as AA). Those aren't too expensive (150€ upwards or something) and additionally usually offer a ton of digital effects and the like.

Of course, now that you have a recorded guitar-signal, there's a whole bunch of things you can do to it. Overdub, pan, EQ, add gates, add post-FX, harmonize, etc. This is a whole field of science with its own magic. Best to find some guides somewhere and/or play around with settings yourself as much as possible.

[EldKatt]

This is called DC offset, and it's probably a result of the cheap A/D circuitry in your cheap soundcard.

Alrighty, well, you could certainly phrase it a little nicer than that I get the picture already - CHEAP CHEAP CHEAP! Hopefully I'm just missunderstanding you, but you seem to have a hair across your ass. I suggest plucking it, shaving it, or even some of that hair removal cream, I don't give a shit, but for some reason it seems you've got some personal vendetta for cheap sound cards and cheap people - which I'm neither. I just had a goddamn question, that's all.

I didn't say you're a cheap person, and both you (I hope) and I know perfectly well that you are not a sound card of any kind. I stated (actually guessed) that your sound card is cheap--by which I meant not suitable for audio production. That's just a statement of fact. Actually, I'll admit right now that I also have a cheap sound card. This is not something that I am ashamed of.

I'll also say that I have never been into the habit of putting a little smiley at the end of everything I say that is not dead serious, and I'm aware that this can lead to misunderstandings on the internet where tone of voice is for obvious reasons not apparent. If you like, you can pretend that I said "your cheap soundcard " instead of just "your cheap soundcard". I hope that clears it up. If not, that's fine with me. I'm not expecting anyone to like me.

From my personal experience, if you're going to home-record a track and plug your guitar into a cheap pre-amp and then directly in your normal computer, completely normal computer-speakers (maybe not the cheapest ones of course) are perfectly fine and well enough. Kick-ass studio monitors only make sense if you have the right recording-equipment and expect a certain quality.

You have a point. "The cheapest ones" are honestly what I was thinking of--I'm probably a bit behind the times here. I have a set of "computer speakers" from something like close to a decade ago, and they suck. So that's the perspective I'm coming from. "Kick-ass monitors" was, of course, a bit of a hyperbole.

[ryanlandry]

hey dude, sorry, no time ATM to read the whole thread (read OP and 1 reply), just want to remark on a possible issue with the "more left than right" (or vice versa?) sound, even with essentially equal looking waveforms. If you don't find that this is just a panning issue on the playback device, i would assume it's what's called the "Haas effect" aka "precedence effect" whereby 2 similar sounds arrive at the ear from 2 different sources with a time difference of ~30ms+, causing you to "localize" the source as coming more from the speaker which first produced it, even if both speakers play the same sound at even volume. most chorus/doubling effects, especially those on guitar pedals/multi-effects create that "wider" sound by using a combination of minor detuning and delay, which creates the Haas Effect. if you zoom way way in on your waveforms in audition, you will probably notice a phase lag (ie: almost identical waveforms, but slightly shifted in time).

I hope that makes sense...it does to me...if not, well, i typed it up fast...

Anyway, I know a thing or 2 about sound and recording and whatnot if you want to discuss in more detail via MSN or skype or some other similar means. I'm currently working as a lab/studio instructor at a recording school, so i have some decent reference materials and experience to draw on.

-RSL

[Snake]

...and both you (I hope) and I know perfectly well that you are not a sound card of any kind.

Heh, if I was, I probably would be the one that comes with the computer.

I am sorry for what I said, but it's just the way you phrased it - you didn't need smilies. It just seemed to me that you were coming across to be a little irritated by the fact that I didn't realize that it was my "cheap soundcard" because everybody should know that. And no, I don't dislike you for it, shit, I don't even know you
I'm the one who generally missunderstand people - from past experiences I tend to take things the wrong way. I'm my worst enemy.

Ryan:
Yes, that makes sence to me. In a few of my songs where I know how I edited it it is very "cloudy". These songs were the ones I had stereo chorus from the FX pedal and Adobe. I've just got to play around a bit more with it before getting serious. This is another reason why I asked if I can burn an audio CD with a CDRW and just keep reusing it for testing perposes.


--Snake

[EldKatt]

It just seemed to me that you were coming across to be a little irritated by the fact that I didn't realize that it was my "cheap soundcard" because everybody should know that.

If that were my attitude, I wouldn't have told you. And I'd be going around hating everyone, including myself. But that's enough about that.

If you feel like it, perhaps it's an idea to post something in the Critics Lounge? I'm sure there's plenty of advice to be had with a more practical basis for things.

[Snake]

Right. I thought of that. I might post a sample sometime.

I think what I'm going to do though, Eld, is try my distortion pedal and mess around with that for a bit, quickly record a few songs and see what they sound like on CD.

Like everyone has said, I just need more practice with it and fool around with things.


--Snake

[Adamski]

Hi Snake,

*I'm recording through the sound input jack - not the microphone jack.

This is the exact point in the chain where the sound is being crappened, so to speak As a general rule, consumer soundcards are not built with recording instruments in mind, and as Eldkatt has mentioned the cheap A/D converters (the electronics that looks at an analogue signal and converts it in to zeros and ones for the computer to understand) will be doing a bad job of preserving the original signal.

However, the biggest issue you have using the line-in is going to be mismatched impedances. A guitar pickup has a very high impedance, while the input (be it line-in or mic) on a computer soundcard is expecting a low impedance signal, and without getting in to the mind-numbing technicalities this is why you're getting a very unhappy sound. This is not a problem limited to sound cards, as the same issue arises when trying to plug a guitar directly in to even the world's most expensive mixing desk.

If you're serious or even semi-serious about recording guitars then you will need to get yourself a Direct Injection unit, or more conveniantly an external audio interface that has this as a built in feature such as this: http://www.tascam.com/products/us-122l.html

It's nice and cheap and I've used the previous model extensivly, and it should intergrate with Audition without any hassle at all.

Hope this helps!