Skepticism

[Nacho]

Okay... I've been told that saying that Bible literalism is stupid is:

-Verbally punching.
-Insulting.
-Aggressive.

And

-Gives atheistics a bad name.

Now, to those who told that to me.... Why?

[Matti]

Bible literalism is indeed stupid. That doesn't imply that those who literally believe in the bible are stupid. Just the point that they do is stupid. It's an obsolete relict from the middle ages and it makes me wonder why it still exists. But then, on the other hand, people believe in (earth-visiting) aliens and all sort of other things. I could understand why people want to believe in such things, but I can't really get it, when people actually believe in these things.

I have nothing against religion in general, especially if it's used in a good way (like acting in a humane way). You can read some >stories< in the bible and see what you can learn of it but as soon as you take things literally better throw it away.

And personally I don't really understand why humanity or a good and healthy way of life even needs faith or religion...

[Nacho]

I NEVER said that religious people are stupid.

Thanks for agreeing with me that Bible literalism is. A big relief after what I saw in the other topic.

[Oliwerko]

And personally I don't really understand why humanity or a good and healthy way of life even needs faith or religion...

Seconded. Some people just keep telling you "See, he's humane and good because he believes in {whatever}". I don't understand why humane behaviour must be binded with a religion.

[Dervish]

Nacho ... I appreciate all opinions.  Thank you for posting on my question.  I did expect quite a bit of backlash more then just you really.  I feel that a basically Science(and skeptisism) and relegion(or faith) are just to complete different ways of thinking Science cannot explain faith and faith cannot prove anything scientific.  But I will say I am gald you started your own thread as mine was getting way off topic.

[BOYD1981]

you just come across a big idiot who takes every oppotunity he can to attack religion, and you did so in a thread that was not started with the intention of discussing religious belief as a whole.
now, i used to do the same in religious discussions but i realised pretty quickly that if i acted like a dick nobody was going to listen to what i was saying.
and also while i remain an atheist i recognise that religion can benefit and enrich the lives of those who embrace it, and besides which i have absolutely no right to tell people what they can and can not believe in and doing so results in hostility.
i learned a long time ago that the internet is not the place for religious debate, perhaps that's a lesson you should also learn.

[Nacho]

Oliwerko: Eeer... As far as I agree with you, I must say that this is not the topic.

The topic, I think (and I must be right, since I started it) is if has arrived the time for being able to say that "Bible literalism is stupid" without of fear of suffering an over reaction bigger than I could find after saying that "Believing in smurfs is stupid" or "Believing in dragons is stupid".

I honestly thing that this time has arrived. I am very interested in that, because there are things in the Bible that seem so ridiculous for me, that, to be honest, I don' t imagine myself labelling them in another way than "stupid" (Or silly, ridiculous, unbelierable, impossible, etc...)

Note that I am not saying "Believers are stupid", "Religious people are stupid" or "Religions are stupid". I am just focusing on the principles of any religion, taken literally.

BOYD: I ask you again... Why? Why am I a big idiot, a dick, for saying that the principles of the religion, if taken literally, are stupid and not defensible from the reason? Tell me why, and I will try to reply to you.

[Nikolas]

BOYD: I ask you again... Why? Why am I a big idiot, a dick, for saying that the principles of the religion, if taken literally, are stupid and not defensible from the reason? Tell me why, and I will try to reply to you.

Once upon a time there was a boy who was obsessed with ants. Every chance he got he would go "The ants are..."

His teachers were so fed up with him, that they kept trying to find way to stir him away.

So at one point the teacher put an essay to the kids about "The fall of communism in red China, after the fall of the Eastern block and the Berlin wall".

so the kid wrong "Red China, Berlin wall, communism. They have nothing to do with ants. THE ANTS ARE..."

Every reading of the word "religion", or "god", or anything simmilar is not a chance for a huge religious debate, whether god is there or not, or who is stupider.

Each on to their own beliefs and system. Even if bicycling 6 hours every day seems moronic to some! 

[Khris]

The tendency to believe in irrational stuff (in this case: religious beliefs) is coherent with having a low IQ.

Since counter-arguments are on the level of "Some of the greatest thinkers through history have been people of faith.", I consider the results of the study as confirmed by the opposition.

In that light, saying that literal believers are stupid is not so far from the truth.

Having said that:

[Nacho]

Okay... Nikolas: let' s start debating:

I DO NOT force your kids to learn "Biking" at least for 3 hours per week in school. Many countries force kids to receive "Religion", no matter if you want or not. "Biking" is not a cultural imposition given before you have the rational tools for deffending from it, Religion does.
I DO NOT ask money from contributors to keep me biking. Church does.
Biking does not involve believing in supernatural theories that are agains reason. Religion does.
Saying "Biking is moronic" does not involve social discredit. Saying "Religion is moronic" does.

And I wonder why.

Edit: KrishMUC. I will never be that dare to say "literal believers are stupid" or "Saying that literal believers are stupid is not so far from truth". I just mean that those specific beliefs are.

[Nikolas]

But here you are doing exactly the same thing again. I was mostly joking with bicycling. In fact I got a bike myself here in Greece and go everywhere, using the bike. It's healthy, I get excersize, I save money, I don't pollute. There's not much more that one would want from a commuter, right?

Yet somehow you decided to compare religion with bikes? YIKES!

[Phemar]

I don't think this thread is for attacking anyone Nikolas, just for discussion as what Nacho originally intended. Let's leave Dervish's thread and anything that happened there out of this thread, Boyd.

This thread is just to discuss taking the bible literally, and why some people would do so. Maybe there are some literal christians out there who can explain or present a good argument as to why they take the bible literally?
Personally I'm quite a strong atheist.

(Let's keep the thread on topic )

[Nacho]

@ Nikolas: Of course... Because you said "Doing 6 hours of bike per day is moronic".  

My point is, if you can say that, and NOTHING HAPPENS, why can' t I say the same about the most stupid set of beliefs that we can find in modern society?

@ Phemar: I am open to discuss anything I said in the other thread, and examine it, word by word, if you want...

I mean... If someone comes to you and says "I DO BELIEVE that there was a gallactic civil war, and there were Jedis, and an evil senator Palpatine conspired, creating a false threat, to have a new army to kill them all and rule the Galaxy" what would you think of him? What would you think if someone comes and tells you that he believes in smurfs? Well... I am not dare enough to imagine what would you say, but... I would definitelly think "This guy is nuts".

Maybe after knowing the guy, he is cool, and those stupid beliefs he confessed to me were just an island of crazyness in an ocean of common sense, but, hey... I am sorry. My first think would be "Wow... crazy!"

[Trent R]

you did so in a thread that was not started with the intention of discussing religious belief as a whole.

Which is why I didn't bother to read more than the gist of what you only to simply understand the replying comments. But now that you've started your own thread, continue on.

I will add, that I feel that if you say that ones beliefs are stupid, it translates to saying that they are stupid. Believing is an act of the mind and heart (wow, that sounded super cheesy)

~Trent

[Nikolas]

I don't think this thread is for attacking anyone Nikolas, just for discussion as what Nacho originally intended.

I'm not attacking anyone and me and Nacho are friends! I hope all is fine and the moronic comments was to illustrate how some people simply cannot understand the rest. Simple enough, no?

[Nacho]

I will add, that I feel that if you say that ones beliefs are stupid, it translates to saying that they are stupid. Believing is an act of the mind and heart (wow, that sounded super cheesy)

No. I think I am able to love/like/respect/admire someone with different ideas than me.

A set of ideas is just that. There are millions of set of ideas that create the personality.

I don' t understand Andail' s politics point of view. He is my friend.
I don' t understand M0ds' beliefs on UFOs. He is my friend.
I don' t understand SSH' s religious beliefs. I hope he is still my friend. I consider him so.
Nikolas doesn't understand my hobbies regarding to sport. He is my friend.
I don' t understand BOYD at all... I hope he is my friend. I consider him so.

Hope now is clear.

[Ishmael]

I won't deny I openly loathe the Roman Catholic church for so much they've done plain wrong. That plan wrong being the way they have forced their ways on people that contradict the bible, and then they tell people to follow what the bible says.

But I wouldn't call believing in this stupid. I would call it mere ignorance, or just being happy with less than you could actually get out of life. But whatever floats your boat.

There is one actually religious person I know I really respect. Truly religious as opposed to socially religious. And the reason I respect this person's views so much is that she's realised the basic fact Luther's put fourth: You're going to heaven, thus are saved, as long as you believe in God. It's very simple and effective. You can go about doing whatever you want from there on.

It's natural for people to need something to fill this certain gap in their lives. People need something in common with others, a safety net to fall on, something that will be there for them. And for most people it is religion. They're taught to needing it from a child, and the peer perssure to needing it is high.

Religion (most of the time) is not stupid, but you can do extremely silly things with it.

[Nacho]

Do I really need to repeat that I never said that believing in stupid?

[Matti]

It's natural for people to need something to fill this certain gap in their lives. People need something in common with others, a safety net to fall on, something that will be there for them. And for most people it is religion. They're taught to needing it from a child, and the peer perssure to needing it is high.

Yeah, I think this is what religion is basically about and it makes sense in a way. But it has nothing to do with genuinely and literaly believe in the bible which I consider plain stupid (and which is the topic here).

[Nacho]

It's natural for people to need something to fill this certain gap in their lives. People need something in common with others, a safety net to fall on, something that will be there for them. And for most people it is religion. They're taught to needing it from a child, and the peer perssure to needing it is high.

The morality, or the need, to have such belifs once you realised that they are not real is something we will discuss in abother thread.