Anyone have Portal? - GeForce 8400 now installed!

[Buckethead]

Get Nvidia GT 8500 (its great, I have it. Not too expensive) and some ram and you should be fine 

[Paper Carnival]

I finished Portal with:

GeForce Ti4200
Pentium IV 2.4 Ghz
512 Mb of RAM

I didn't have maximum settings, but it played just fine.

[Snake]

Alright, guys.
Today's the day. Here's the link to the Geforce 6200 PCI that I found:
Klerggen-flurggen

I'm pretty sure that I'm going to get this one plus another 256mb of RAM. I would really like to get 512mb, but I'm afraid there's been a bit of a money issue lately... erk.

GHOST and LimpingFish: Thanks a f*cking million for your generosity! But I'm afraid all of this has been confusing. If I were to get yours, Ghost, the ATI Radeon Sapphire 9200se Atlantis, wouldn't I have to upgrade anyway from Celeron to Pentium 4? Not sure if my machine can handle such cards.

Bah, I'm not as computer savvy as I used to be.

I don't even know whether I've got PCI or any other wierd PCI version such as PCI Express. So I uploaded a picture:

Heh, and from what you can see here, to me, it looks like there was a spot ready for AGP or at least another PCI slot.

So before I go and buy this card right now, is there anything I need to know?

Thanks everyone.

//--EDIT--//
BTW, what is Celeron exquivelant to? Is it Pentium 1 or better?

//--EDIT2--//
Looking closer at the card in the screenshot, it doesn't look like the same version of PCI...
Errr.

[InCreator]

Man, snake!
you're talking about ancient history in computing.
This energy you're using to upgrade stone into bronze - if put into - let's say - AGS christmas lottery - would get you a modern machine and quicker. Or making a simple, addicting, commercial game piece.

If I were you, I would concentrate on money first, getting something for it - next.

To my eye, those look like standard PCI slots.
PCI-E is alot newer and comes after AGP in technical history.



ISA > PCI > AGP > PCI-Express
...as far as I can remember

It's quite simple to remember than ISA is black, PCI is white, AGP is ugly brown and PCI-E is random color, yellow, red or blue. It's not 100% solid theory, but applies to most cases, I think.

So your machine is about 3 levels behind modern ones

Anyway, I didn't know PCI graphics cards for this level and speed do exist. Even my old, long-trusted workhorse Geforce 5700LE was for AGP slot. And boy was this card weak... But I played all the games I wanted. With lowest settings and ton of lag. Including HL2. All until Crysis came out. I believe 6200 should handle Portal just fine.

Jumped to 8800GTX and never looked back.

[Ghost]

If I were to get yours, Ghost, the ATI Radeon Sapphire 9200se Atlantis, wouldn't I have to upgrade anyway from Celeron to Pentium 4? Not sure if my machine can handle such cards.

Well, I'm no board expert either, but I had it working in a Pentium1 (possibly 2) with 600Mhz, so I think you'll be safe. And I stand to my offer, all it would cost you is the shippin' fee, so there's no harm in tryin I think.

[Snake]

*Groan*

Great. I don't know what to do now. I'll return the game and start saving for a new computer, I guess. Fuck.

Ghost, thanks. I'd love to have you video card (hopefully with the manual of course). I'm in the US. How much would the shipping fee be? I have no idea about such things.

I'd really like to get the GeForce 6200 knowing that, AT ITS LEAST, it's a hell of a lot better than what I've got.

I don't know.

[LimpingFish]

The one thing I learned about boards (and I've learned surprisingly little over the years ) is that AGP slots are indeed almost always brown in colour.

But PCI flavours of most mainstream nVidia and ATI cards do exist, though finding them for sale is a bit of a job.

As far as I know, Snake, your rig will support any of these PCI cards, without much trouble. Your Celeron is perfectly capable (afaik), being basically a reduced version of an equivalent Pentium. Like I said earlier, I'm guessing your chip is a Celeron 2.4 or a Celeron D 320. These are based on variants of the Pentium 4 and Pentium D, respectively, and should do the job fine.*

That card you linked to is a good 6200 variant, and before I upgraded to this new PC, I ran an AGP 6200 with a Pentium 4 1.8ghz and 512mb of ram and most games ran fine at 800x600 or 1024x768, with medium settings. Even F.E.A.R, though with almost all effects set to low or off.

You might have to do a little tweaking when installing the drivers and such, but since you're running XP it should be a pretty easy card to install. As long as your case conforms to the standard PCI card size (eg. The card has enough room to sit properly in it's slot, and it's backplate is flush against your case.).

And that empty space on your board above the PCI slots does look like it would house a missing AGP interface.

I've seen similar PCs (Celeron, Intel card, etc) take a newer card just fine, so there is some life left in yours.


*Of course, this is without taking you rigs power supply into account. But the 6200 has fairly low power consumption.

[voh]

(LimpingFish posted before I did, so some of the stuff I mention is similar to what he says. I refuse to edit it out, though! )

Professional I.T. guy to the rescue!

(if you just want my advice without the reassurance of my technical babble, scroll down to the bold-faced 'conclusion' and read that )

Well, I'm no board expert either, but I had it working in a Pentium1 (possibly 2) with 600Mhz, so I think you'll be safe. And I stand to my offer, all it would cost you is the shippin' fee, so there's no harm in tryin I think.

If it was a 600 MHz processor, it had to have been a Pentium III, since the PII only went to 450MHz and the Pentium I crapped out at 300MHz.

The general truth in matters such as these is that if it fits the slot, and there's drivers for your OS, it'll work. The problem lies in the fact that if you get a last-gen card and stick it in a last-last-last-gen computer, you won't even benefit from the speed the new card offers, since your CPU will not be able to perform well enough, and that will be your new bottlecap. That, however, shouldn't be the case for you.

*reads back*

Okay, I'm up to speed again. STOP WORRYING! Your specs are good enough in general to run the game, save for the video card. To be more specific, and to stop you from fretting and feeling uncertain about your hardware, I'll go into some detail here.

Celeron is not a seperate type of processor. It's always been the budget version of a specific processor family. Yours is a Pentium 4 Celeron. The only difference (that matters) is that the Pentium 4 has twice the L2 cache (which makes access to data somewhat faster), but that doesn't make a lot of difference. Basically your processor is a Pentium 4 Lite. It's not modern, but you can't quite call it slow just yet. I work with a lot of Pentium 4 and Pentium 4 Celeron systems and generally they still feel quite snappy.

Also, the photo of your PCI slots you posted is perfectly clear. Increator is right, they're normal, regular and beautifully standard PCI slots. Since your Pentium 4 Celeron isn't THAT old, your PCI slots will be of the latest revision and any card ever made for PCI slots should work. Yet another headache prevented

Your processor is WELL ABOVE the minimum requirements. Your memory should be sufficient to at least run the game. How high the detail can go depends on your videocard.

As for videocards, while I think Ghost's offer is amazingly awesome, getting it shipped might not be worth the money, as the last time I received a video card through mail, it had a shipping cost price of 35$. I'm sure that given the worldwide economic problems, it'll be closer to $25, but still. The Radeon 9200SE isn't really that powerful. I can suggest a good card to you, from my own experience, since it's the card I use at the moment (though AGP), and I ran Crysis 2 (the 'heaviest game ever', INSANELY heavier than Portal) on it at medium settings with a steady FPS of 23 (which is enough to be entirely playable). I also played Fallout 3 on medium settings and it felt as quick as my friend's recently built system. Oh, and I of course played Portal on it (on high settings) and my system didn't break a sweat. It's not a really heavy game, after all

This card should be right for your wishes AND for your system: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814187041

It's not much more expensive than the 6200 you mentioned, but the core clock is 567MHz while the 6200's is only 300MHz. Your system should be able to handle this. Same amount of memory, so all in all, 5 bucks more and a shitload bettter. That sounds like a good deal.

Celeron 2.4GHz, 512MB RAM, GeForce 8400 GS should easily run Portal.

To sum up, and to seperate my conclusion and suggestion from the technical details (as to not confuse you even more) is the following:

Conclusion

Get the GeForce 8400 GS (remember, I played Crysis 2 on that card), and if you're uncertain whether or not it'll work in your system or you just want to make damn sure, Newegg.com has a really good support crew (http://www.newegg.com/HelpInfo/CustomerService.aspx) who will be more than willing to help you out with whatever questions you may have and assist you further.

Hope this stuff helped.

[InCreator]

While voh's post sounds really good and I've heard alot of high-end cards being cheap as dirt, it's still a bit too good to believe.

I personally wouldn't go for wild adventure of trying to make junk fly - I never had money when I was smaller and no monetary support for my computer love, so I have been doing doing crazy tricks with wrecks of a computer all my childhood. Like installing windows xp to a 486/33MHz and so on. My current policy is simply buy a brand new system in every 4-5 years and increasingly try to pump more out of it as technology advances. Maybe add RAM or newer video card, but nothing more during this time.
Upgrading seems to be a bit money and nerve costly for me today and in this time I use machine, I can collect for new one or afford monthly payments, instead of wasting it bit-by-bit on quickly expiring parts.

But through my experience, I know that with hard searching, solid driver/cooling/software/bios setup and little money you can run almost anything on almost everything. Just be sure not to buy something that doesn't fit your system or which' cost-to-improve rating comes way worse than simply buying everything new.

Also, buying a video card? Video cards expire quickly, since technology advances really fast. Which means people change them ofter. Why not look out for used one? Someone bought it, played few months, new game came out and bam!, the card is useless. But it might be in perfect shape.

Same applies to getting a whole new rig too. Used machines could cost really little, especially if owner has no real idea of the actual cost on market.

Another tip I learned was there's nothing better than hooking up with an IT guy at some bigger company. Almost brand new machines often simply go to junkyard and having a friend at correct position might get you whole new machine for few beers or hundred bucks. My own company even installed 8800GTO cards on machines mostly used for Excel spreadsheets and reading PDF files. Old cards were GF8600 ones and guess what? Techie simply took em' home and sold them for pocket change, because boss doesn't really care what happens with "outdated" technology.

Don't want to do propaganda or initiate a debate (please don't), but I'd avoid older ATI (especially 9xxx series) cards like a devil.

[voh]

Increator, the implication that his current system is junk is a bit harsh. It isn't junk except for the fact that the built-in Intel video card is just too weak for any 3D game more recent than 3-4 years.

Snake mentioned money issues, implying that he doesn't have a lot to spend on this ordeal. That's exactly why I posted what I did. While in general a new system would be a better option, it is more expensive and for his specific goal (allowing his step son to play Portal on and after christmas) it didn't seem like a viable option.

Snake, it's all up to you. If you're otherwise content with the speed of your system but just want it to play games a bit better, get a new video card. This will, of course, mean that there will still be games that you can't run, but it'll make it a lot easier to meet some of the lower-range games. This is the short-term solution.

If you feel your system as a whole is getting slow and you'd like a new system which will allow you to not care for at least another year or two, don't buy the new video card and save up for a new system. This is, of course, the long-term solution.

But it's all up to you.

My (additional) 2 cents.

[Huw Dawson]

No, I'd agree. The system is junk.

Sadly (as a PC gamer) I have to say that if you want to play Portal at anything like the quality it needs to not suck very very horribly, you can find XBOX 360s for £120 or so. Your only other choice is a brand new computer (for about £350 if you don't include the screen).

- Huw

EDIT: My AGP slot (because my computer is also junk!) is blue.

[Snake]

Thank you guys for all your help.

LimpingFish and Voh: Thank you for all the information. I feel a little bit better about what I'd like to do.

Voh, I'm pleased to hear how certain you are that the GeForce 8400 will work with my system. As you said, though, I'm going to ask tech support first and listen to what they have to say before I do anything radical. I'm also very surprised to hear that you think my processor is equivalent to a Pentium 4 Lite. I was expecting more like Pentium 2.
I think this computer was purchased in '04, if I remember right - which is ages ago in computer years. Heh, last year is EONS now days. Damn this ever growing technology!

Oh, one more question that's been bugging me. You say that any PCI card should fit my PCI slots. However, I've noticed on both the 6200 and 8400 that there are two(2) grooves in the chip, where as there is only one(1) groove in my PCI slots. Does this make any difference?

In my conclusion:
If the 8400 is going to work with my system, then awesome. We really don't need a top of the line gaming computer (though would be nice) but only upgrade enough to be able to play newer games, even on their lowest settings if/when needed.
Maybe a year or two down the road maybe we'll have enough money to get a gaming machine. For right now though, a decent, well deserved, video card and some more RAM will do.

I myself love horror games. That's why I bought F.E.A.R., since you don't see very many horror games where I live, but now I'm stuck with it and can't play it.
I know my step son will LOVE Portal. I know that for sure, eventhough he's never heard of it. I also got him the adventure game, Scratches. He's into horror as much as I am and so I figured I'd get him that. Plus it'll give him an actual adventure game to play (trying to get him into or at least appreciate adventure games), eventhough it's first person view, which is not my favorite, but that's all the store had. Well, they had Sam & Max Season 1 but I was there to shop for him, not myself...

Anyway, thanks for all the help EVERYBODY.

[InCreator]

Kind of fragile idea to spent money for a system - meant to but get an old game to work. Portal might be still fresh, but Source engine is not. But if that's what you want, my best wishes to you.

Sadly (as a PC gamer) I have to say that if you want to play Portal at anything like the quality it needs to not suck very very horribly, you can find XBOX 360s for £120 or so. Your only other choice is a brand new computer (for about £350 if you don't include the screen).

Huh? I always detested new age consoles because they are EXPENSIVE, leave no room for piracy or demos. Also, there's no freeware or ways to do anything if you happen not to have either money or games that still excite. Modern gaming has gone down too, the days of spending MONTHS on SimCity or <insert loveable played-crap-out-of-it old game name>, new games last only as long as you complete campaign, multiply with four(teen?) if it's a multiplayer game.

Except World of Warcraft and those few solid RTS games like Company on Heroes, etc maybe.

Increator, the implication that his current system is junk is a bit harsh. It isn't junk except for the fact that the built-in Intel video card is just too weak for any 3D game more recent than 3-4 years.

Actually, I find it quite difficult to classify any system nowadays. Mostly because games vary so hard on system requirements and what you get for those.

People might find - for example - Crysis - a demanding and top-of-the-art game, but while it runs fine with everything on full power on my machine, much older Tom Clancy's Advanced Warfighter reduces my machine to a crawl and what makes GTA4 with those horrid shadows and low draw distance restrict all power to under 30 fps, I don't know.
Maybe because world is upside down, and games are made on PC, then sold on console and then somehow PORTED back to PC, leaving a heavy mess of bad code and lag. As I said, I don't like consoles much...

[LimpingFish]

Oh, one more question that's been bugging me. You say that any PCI card should fit my PCI slots. However, I've noticed on both the 6200 and 8400 that there are two(2) grooves in the chip, where as there is only one(1) groove in my PCI slots. Does this make any difference?

Not to my knowledge. The extra notch is most likely because the card is universal (supporting different voltages and such) and is designed to fit in both slot configurations. On your board (with its 5v PCI configuration), the extra short notch and the long notch will both fit in the long slot, and the other short notch in the short slot. On a 3.3v PCI configuration this would be reversed, hence the the need for notches at both ends.

[Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens]

I have an 8600 GT and Crysis and pretty much everything else runs very smoothly on it.  Of course, I have corsair performance ram and a 2.1 ghz dual core.  All three of these come together to help performance, so buying a high end video card will not necessarily save the day.  Don't you have any computer stores around you?  I usually find great deals at Frys Electronics, and I am by no means wealthy (I can't even pay my student loans right now).  Still, I saved up four hundred and bought a very nice board and mb combo from them and they had 2 gb corsair ram on sale for 64 with a 30 dollar rebate.

Just take your time and do some price checking.  Newegg usually has really reasonable prices on mid-low end video cards (I bought my 8600 GT there).  One thing to consider is that you probably do not want an AGP board because the socket is being phased out.  Definitely go for PCI-e and something that supports a decent range of whatever processor you prefer.

[Snake]

Proggy: No, unfortunately there are no computer stores around here without travelling 20-25 minutes. And that one wouldn't be a worthy computer store. To get to a decent store with lots of goodies, I'd have to travel an additional 45 minutes.
I live in East Bumfuck as they say.

So anyway, I took the plunge and will most likely regret it, since there is, indeed, some negative energy in this thread about the whole subject. NewEgg never got back to me with my questions, so with shortage of time with Christmas ready to slap me in the ass, I went ahead and bought the GeForce 8400GS PCI card from NewEgg with an additional 512MBs of RAM - which puts me up to 1.24GB. Now I'm hoping that the damn thing works and that it wasn't just a waste of time and money.
Even if newer games aren't smooth as a baby's ass and we can't play them at the full graphics performance, bah, I don't care, just as long as the computer excepts the card.
If anything, it'll be better than what it is now - at it's least.

If tracking is correct, it should be arriving today and I can give it a go tomorrow afternoon.
Oh God, help us and save us. Or me, since I'm the idiot.

//--EDIT--//
UPS just dropped it off.

[Buckethead]

The card seems pretty sweet from what I can find out about it. Some of the newest games might require a bit more RAM though.

[voh]

By all means, let us know how it worked out. While it's easy to recommend something, we don't have hands-on access to your system so we're all guessing as well (an educated guess is, after all, still just a guess ).

So, let us know

[Ghost]

Wish you best of luck! There might be cake, you know.

[Snake]

Thanks for all the luck, guys!

And luck is what I was given

The kid got shipped out of state yesterday afternoon, I installed the video card last night and all seems pretty good.

Of course I couldn't install the video card without a cluster fuck, that should go without saying anyway, but I was finally able to get it working.

I installed F.E.A.R. (WORKED!) and played that for an hour or so - loading takes FOREVER. It's pretty good so far, the graphics are amazing (shh, I'm still used to Wolfenstien/Unreal Tournament style graphics). I have the performance on it's maximum settings and it works fine. It gets glunky when ouside or in a big area and when there are a lot of characters on screen, but the glunkyness is reduced in 640x480. Still playable in 1024x768, but the glunkyness lasts longer - zero glunkyness in slowmotion mode, which is sweet.
I found that no matter what I did with the graphics options, it still operated the same, which is very wierd. I reduced all of the options to their minimum or off settings and the game still ran as if still on maximum (which like I said works okay).

I'm downloading the demo for Portal again right now to see how this game works.

I'm still awaiting the additional 512MB of RAM (puts my machine up to 1.24GB), so I'm keeping high hopes that that will help reduce the glunkyness in F.E.A.R and, if it has any, Portal.

Cheers!