PixelArt editor - Another question :)

[SpacePaw]

Ok,
I wasnt quite sure where to put this thread but I finally decided it's technical after all

I'm a computer science student and I had to decide on my final project I have to make to graduate (something like engineering doctorate). I chose to develop a program used to create/edit pixel art (something like GraphicsGale for example). The thing is - I want to make it free and as useful for all of us here.

That's the point where I could use some help I already have some ideas about useful tools to put in there but I bet that with YOUR help I can get a neat list of requirements and suggestions that could lead to professional (It's a graduate project after all - so It'll be the same as commercial one) and FREE tool for us all

It won't be complete in a less than a year, but it's a serious project after all. Guys I need your help! Tell me everything that you ever thought could be usefull for creating low res sprites and backgrounds (or thinhgs that irritate you in the programs you use so I can avoid them)!

[SSH]

Make it like my walkcycle generator, but better

my favourties:

Onion skinning for animation

Layers

Direct export of animated GIFs

[ALPHATT]

grid

possibility to create  animated .gifs

pallette import/export

magic wand

plus everything mentioned above

[Mr Flibble]

Gradient with spatter like in Deluxe Paint (or indexed gradients), optional grids, and free-zoom.  In that order.

[Khris]

Just clone ProMotion

[Ghost]

* basic shape tools (rectangle, circle, polygon (outline and filles), line and "multi-line" (click
   to add points to the line
* onion skinning
* gradient fill
* edit/load/save palettes
* zoom +/-
* custom "brush tips" (a la PhotoShop)
* a loser version of the Office Paperclip Assistant that is constantly harassed by BlueCup

[rharpe]

- Make it generate 'tweens' or in-betweens (similar to Macromedia Flash)
- Allow one color to be changed all at once (Example: all the black pixels in the image can be changed by modifying that black color on the palette.)
- Auto Cel Shading. (Get rid of those harsh black outlines!)
- When zooming or scaling, DO NOT anti-alias the image! (FireFox 3 and many other programs are doing this... it sucks!)

[ALPHATT]

FireFox 3 and many other programs are doing this... it sucks!

Yes it sucks!

[IndieBoy]

• Eyedropper tool
  
• Custom selection such as a rectangle or freehand
  
• A preview screen that can be zoomed
  
• Paste as new image
  
• Increase/Decrease canvas size
  
• Colour Depth Editor
  
• Flip horizontal/vertical/90 degrees etc
  
• Undo/Redo   

[SpacePaw]

Great :3 Keep it coming
Some of the functions mentioned probably won't be included in the first version (like auto-inbetween) but I'll try my best at basic stuff like grids/palletes/brushes etc.

It's a good requirement for later though
I write all of them down anyway so I can keep them in mind

Remember to drop a post anytime you remember something cool or very important! :3

[Ghost]

Out of interest, how are you making that program? Which programming language/wrapper library/programming approach? It would be interesting to see a sort of developer's diary.
(Well, it would be for me, and I bet I'm not alone here  )

[SpacePaw]

Out of interest, how are you making that program? Which programming language/wrapper library/programming approach? It would be interesting to see a sort of developer's diary.
(Well, it would be for me, and I bet I'm not alone here  )

Well, it's just an idea right now, nothing really started yet
I'm feeling good in C# (Microsoft Visual Studio IDE) but I'm not sure if it's a right choice concerning the multiplatform problem (Java probably would be better...what do you think?).
As for the libraries I have no idea yet to be honest. I was searching for some books concerning programing 2d graphics but I didnt find much. I'm not sure if GDI+ will be enough for that
If you know any free good libraries that could help me I would be glad to hear about them

Umm..About the developer's diary. Maybe LiveJournal account or another bloggy thingy?

[Ghost]

I'd rate any C version dialect over Java, but that's just me. Visual Studio's very good in my opinion- but I am by no means a pro!

Libraries... SDL comes to mind- it's free and seems to give good access to graphic routines, but as an oldfashioned Allegro user, I have no hands-on experience with it 

And for that diary, just use blogger- simple, painless, easy. 

[ThreeOhFour]

Two really big things for me:

A well designed colour palette so that picking colours is not a difficult process. Mixing colours in MSPaint is hard for me! Doing in GraphicsGale is simple and easy! Keep in mind that some (a rare few, of course) people like to mix colours with RGB rather than just HSL, so make sure to use both, and try and have sliders for each value instead of just number boxes you can edit.

The other thing is smart use of hotkeys and shortcuts. Picking a colour from the image by having to go and manually select the eyedropper tool, click the colour, then manually select the brush tool again is going to make me get frustrated quickly, particularly when I can go into GIMP/Photoshop and do the same thing by holding a key down or into GraphicsGale and right click (both work well). Also, with my tablet and my keyboard I have assigned macros so that undo and redo are single button things, right next to each other. Because I use these a lot, it makes things much quicker. Not sure if that's sensible or possible, but it certainly helps me.

Good luck!

[SpacePaw]

And for that diary, just use blogger- simple, painless, easy. 

So here you go! A blogger diary!
http://spacepaw.blogspot.com/
Any news concerning my projects will go there now (I'll notice you all on the forum too )

Not sure if that's sensible or possible, but it certainly helps me.

Not only possible. It's a necessity. Without that I won't even want to release the beta

[InCreator]

The thing is - I want to make it free and as useful for all of us here.

...useful...
I can help in that department!!!

* Isometric grid + optional 1-pixel grid
* Quick isometric wall
* Quick isometric box, maybe some other shapes too, like pyramids and cones. Good circle algorithm.
* Isometric snap for line tool. I mean, holding down something would make your lines isometric, like holding shift in mspaint would make them straight.

This could work by combining straight and 2-1 isometric theme to lines, according to direction you drag. Like - in mspaint, if you hold shift and move mouse vertically or horizontally, you get straight line. In-between, perfectly diagonal. Iso-snap could include 8 extra directions, adding those 2 for each direction (shown ones are for upper-left)


This simple addition alone will make a HUGE impact bringing all MSPaint-using isometric artists from MSPaint to your program.

* Isometric cropper (If you can get your hands on a SimCity2000 (try abandonware sites), check out the editor. Year 2009 still doesn't have any alternates to such powerful isometric drawing tools). By cropper I mean that you define isometric rectangle bounds as drawing are and cannot cross them. SC2000 editor has it - you pick the base (ground) size and can draw only in its boundaries.

Why so much isometric suggestions? Simply because modern world lacks any good isometric drawing programs. And considerably heavy portion of pixel art is isometric today.

For extra ideas,
* as simple and good-working select-copy-paste system as MSPaint has. Otherwise, you won't win over paint. Because for simple pixel-making, its system is definitely best.
EDIT:

* Ability to change between real pixel and image pixel selection box frame. I mean, in MSPaint, if you draw selection box, even if your image is zoomed 10x (how to do that is a neat trick), you still have 1-pixel frame depending on your desktop resolution. In many other programs - selection box frame is as big as pixel on your image - this might be hell when you want to select really small area and zoomed everything to do this - selection box rectangle actually covers that area so you cannot see what you select very well. Both ways have their benefits and problems. So ability to select proper one might be best.

* For pixelart program in the era of super-high desktop resolutions, flexible and powerful zooming is extremely important. Zoom-to-fit-window/screen etc stuff is highly recommended.

* Replace color tool. You eyedrop a color, pick another and click. It should be that simple. Even cooler if we could apply this to selection only and it would self-detect if something IS selected so there's no need to select all to use it.

* Brighten/darken processors for a tool. NOT that horror that is in Adobe Photoshop!! I cannot stress importance of such simple thing enough.

* Manual Anti-alias tool? Something that by clicking detects nearest pixel colors and interpolates clicked pixel using those? Not sure how it would really work.

* Pan/center image part under cursor, preferably via simple keyboard key. Especially useful when zoomed up on a larger image.

* Hotkeys based on keyboard/mouse/tablet/etc input. I mean, if I want to assign a hotkey to pen tool, and have 5-button mouse, pressing any of them while assigning the key should be so paint program actually understands the input. So if someone has 40 button mouse or some other technological wonder, he could still use all of those. Mouse wheel support is elementary too.

I think I'll edit this post forever.
Instead of reading/relying on this forum thread, start a feature list early and mark down what you like and what will be likely to actually happen in program.

[Scavenger]

Hmmm, not much will wrest me from MSPaint and ProMotion, but if there was to be a challenger to bring pixel art into the new millenium...

- Proper support for 8bit palettes. [not just blocking out anti-aliasing and effects once you go 8bit. If it's for backgrounds too, I'd like to be able to paint in it ]

- Graphics tablet pressure sensitivity. I mean, I'd paint backgrounds in ProMotion, but it's too lame to have support for something I use quite often. It feels unnatural.

- Simple onion skinning. Pro Motion's method is so aggravatingly arcane.

- Tile view option (to make sure everything lines up - rendering tiles in a 9x9 grid of the same tile while you work on them)

- Layers.

And my favourite:

- Support for removing and adding in shortcuts to customise our interface to what we need it for (I might not need the Isometric functions so much, but will need the Tile View. Others might need the Iso functions to be right there.)

[Misj']

A well designed colour palette so that picking colours is not a difficult process. Mixing colours in MSPaint is hard for me! Doing in GraphicsGale is simple and easy! Keep in mind that some (a rare few, of course) people like to mix colours with RGB rather than just HSL, so make sure to use both, and try and have sliders for each value instead of just number boxes you can edit.

As I mention about every other day I'm not a pixel artist , but based on Ben's remark I was wondering whether the following would be valuable additions:

1. Implementation of the colour theory in the palette (some of the basics are explained here).
2. A library of pre-set colours that can be expanded by the user.
3. Highlight and shadow colours for the current selection (at least one shade away, possibly two).
4. Import palette based on a (reference) image (or a colour picker from a reference image).

5. Not on colours: a background that can be turned on or off that can contain reference (concept) art (either scaled or at the original size).

ad 1. This would allow people to more easily select matching colours (as long as it's not forced upon them of course).
ad 2. This could be everything from skin-colours to the colour of tomatoes. Homogeneity of colours throughout the project can of course be achieved by picking colours from existing images, but to me it would make more sense to implement a library (where one can give a name, a small description, the colour itself, etc) to use. Preferably each of the colours in this library can be shared separately with collaborators.
ad 3. Not everyone uses the same approach in deciding the highlights and shadows, so implementing a single automated approach might not be preferable...of course of you implement multiple approaches and have people decide for themselves which to use...also, if within the library people can include shadow and highlight colours either automatically or manually this should not be a limitation.
ad 4. To do this in a way that is trully valuable to the user might not be that simple actually...

ad 5. By 'either scaled or at the original size' I mean that pixel art is normally designed at a magnification (as far as I understand), so that means that a single pixel-art pixel can contain multiple pixels in your reference image. By not pre-scaling the reference (to the dimensions of the pixel-art), the artist can decide himself how to interpret these pixels correctly into a single pixel. On the other hand scaling the reference might be valuable in certain cases.

Just some ideas...as mentioned, I think pixel-artists will have to decide which of these ideas they would consider valuable.

[ThreeOhFour]

Interesting suggestions there, Misj'.

I know you appreciate that every artist has a personal choice when it comes to picking highlight and shadow colours, meaning either you stick to a very basic technique for selecting a highlight colour or you spend ages on the feature. I doubt that I'd use the feature, but I can imagine someone who is starting out would find it very useful. It'd be great if one could write their own function for calculating highlight and shadow tones for our selected tone, but that's started to make things very complicated.

The other issue here is that in the past when I have tried to make palettes based on just the numbers, it has never looked very good. The gaps in hue, sat and lum from say a red to an orange never seem to work quite the same on say a blue to a green. But that could be just me.

Interesting ideas, anyway.

Good circle algorithm.

This one is important to me as well.

[InCreator]

Actually, I think I can make my own isometric painter - inspiration ahoy!
I think Game Maker is probably enough for such project.
Then again, it's quite a CPU hog...