King's Quest 9 Silver Lining may not be dead after all.

xenogia · Tue 04/05/2010 04:42:57

In some surprising news the Silver Lining Kings Quest game may not be shutdown after all. Seems Activision and the creators of the fan-made sequel are in talks.

http://kotaku.com/5529809/the-sequel-they-had-no-right-to-make-now-has-a-surprise-twist

Mr Flibble · Tue 04/05/2010 04:58:30

TSL had better be the single best game ever made.

Edit: In all seriousness though, this is a pretty interesting development, and it's hard not to get pulled into the excitement even though I was never really a KQ fan.

Charity · Tue 04/05/2010 08:35:14

This is potentially great news, though of course talking is still talking, so time will tell.

Hopefully whatever deal they come to allows them to finish their trilogy. Looked like that wasn't going to happen even before the C&D. It would kind of suck for them to go through all this just to release an unfinished product, though I guess even that is preferable to having to toss out ten years of work.

Dualnames · Tue 04/05/2010 11:36:52

Don't expect the best game ever. Never do with hyped projects (looks at self), however expect a vision come true! And I'm guessing that's the only thing that matters!!

Erpy · Tue 04/05/2010 12:18:36

Whoever was in charge of the earlier communication with VU should definitely have earned a slap on the wrist in my book...miscommunications that result in a C&D because your team failed to follow the proper procedure seems really sloppy.

But you're right, it's a very interesting development. (particularly for us) I do wonder what would happen if they got whoever's offering them funding to purchase the KQ rights. Would the first chapters/episode they had already completed still be free? Can they still afford to offer it for free after already paying a lot of money for a franchise? I suppose in order to gain back that money the remaining chapters' production will certainly be considered.

Radiant · Tue 04/05/2010 17:24:33

Well, they are certainly worthy of the name "Phoenix" now...

blueskirt · Tue 04/05/2010 17:49:18

An opening to negotiation is the last thing I expected from Activision. Good news so far, time will tell whether those negotiations will turn great or if it's just a fancy way to say Activision is open to sell the right to KQ, but it's good to hear that.

I'm also very interested to see what will be the ramifications of those negotiations if they turn out successful for the canceled SQ7 game and the other Sierra fan games and remakes projects out there.

Charity · Tue 04/05/2010 18:33:40

Oh man, if they buy the rights they could totally C&D all the other King's Quest fan projects. Wouldn't that be a plot twist.

On a more serious note, could this be the beginning of a trend of fans buying up the rights to dead game franchises and then releasing them to the public domain?

Erpy · Tue 04/05/2010 19:16:13

Yeah, the Phoenix moniker seems appropriate...though it's still rather early.

QuoteI'm also very interested to see what will be the ramifications of those negotiations if they turn out successful for the canceled SQ7 game and the other Sierra fan games and remakes projects out there.

For SQ7? Not much. If there's any franchises trading owners, it'll be limited to the KQ brand. I used to think they were only interested in selling all the Sierra classics as one big package (so they wouldn't end up stuck with the less well known ones such as Codename Iceman or Laura Bow series), but maybe that was only VU's position or maybe I mistaken to begin with.

For KQ-related games...if they'd end up buying the IP (not merely a commercial license) they would also obtain ownership of the KQ remakes and the ability to shut down other KQ-related fangames...but I don't think there's a great deal of those left in existence.

QuoteOn a more serious note, could this be the beginning of a trend of fans buying up the rights to dead game franchises and then releasing them to the public domain?

I suspect not. I think the price is too high for people to simply slap some money together and then "throw it away". In order to get that money back, they'd have to turn their games into commercial projects and hope they sell well enough to make up for the IP costs + production costs. Also, it's questionable whether it's "fans" proposing to buy up a franchise. It's a lot more likely a 3rd party investor or other game company approached by the TSL team has offered funding and they would be the true owners of the IP if it were bought.

blueskirt · Tue 04/05/2010 22:15:12

QuoteFor SQ7? Not much. If there's any franchises trading owners, it'll be limited to the KQ brand.

But we don't know if they're trading owners yet, all we know is they're in negotiation. They could be negotiating to purchase or rent the rights of KQ, but they could also be negotiating the right to release their game under a fair use clause (The game isn't called KQ9, they won't make money out of their game, etc.) in which case, successful negotiations could open the door for other Sierra fan games.

Erpy · Tue 04/05/2010 23:49:03

The fair use clause doesn't apply to the project...it uses many characters (recognizable) from the previous KQ games as well as known locations/landmarks.

But you're right, it's kinda unclear what exactly is being negotiated. There's 3 possibilities:

- A free fan license. Activision will then obtain complete say and ownership over the project and it'll be released as freeware.
- A commercial license. Whoever's funding it gets the right to release a game commercially using the KQ IP and Activision in addition to the license fee might take a part of the profits.
- IP transfer. Way more expensive than a commercial license, but whoever pays for it gets complete control over the KQ brand, the KQ games and can start as many KQ-related projects as he wishes, be they free or commercial as well as profit from the sales of existing KQ games and license out the IP to 3rd parties.

Fair use with no strings attached is no option I think. SQ7 got the free fan license deal, but turned it down because they didn't want VU to obtain ownership of their work without anything in return.

xenogia · Wed 05/05/2010 05:14:38

Just off topic a bit, Erpy I love how your using Lunar portrait images to convey your mood ..

Radiant · Wed 05/05/2010 14:27:25

Quote from: Erpy on Tue 04/05/2010 19:16:13
For KQ-related games...if they'd end up buying the IP (not merely a commercial license) they would also obtain ownership of the KQ remakes and the ability to shut down other KQ-related fangames...but I don't think there's a great deal of those left in existence.

Really? I spot two of them just on the first page of this very forum.

Not that I'd expect the Phoenix people to want to shut down anyone else, that would be highly ironic. :

Erpy · Wed 05/05/2010 16:11:27

Sorry, I referred to completed projects or projects that are nearing the end of the development cycle...which are usually the only projects IP holders tend to bother with since the finishing rate of fangames is shaky at best.

Also, unless the POS director has a very rich sugar daddy who decides to give him the KQ franchise as an early christmas gift, I don't think it's the TSL-management that gets to make these kinds of decisions, but the ones who supplied the dough to make the transaction.

Knox · Thu 06/05/2010 05:34:31

What people need to do is create a game that is similar to a certain IP (like Kings Quest) but change the names of all the characters, locations, title, etc...so the owner of the IP doesnt shut you down...then once you finally release your game, get a "patch" to circulate anonymously that automatically switches all the names of the characters and locations back to the IP names...that would work, no?

I thought about doing that myself actually:P

Radiant · Thu 06/05/2010 05:47:38

Quote from: general_knox on Thu 06/05/2010 05:34:31
What people need to do is create a game that is similar to a certain IP (like Kings Quest) but change the names of all the characters, locations, title, etc...so the owner of the IP doesnt shut you down...

Um, yeah. The problem is that the concept of "IP" goes a bit farther than just the names, so if you write a game about King Maharg of Yrtnevad, Activision is still well within their rights to shut you down.

Erpy · Thu 06/05/2010 10:04:44

Especially if King Maharg of Yrtnevad is walking around in a red tunic, blue pants, a blue cap and admiring the (too) familiar scenery of Checkmate Land. (that used to be called Chessboard Land from KQ6)

It's not that easy.

Knox · Thu 06/05/2010 22:34:59

Well obviously an IP goes farther than that, duh...I dont mean "just switching the names"...its not *that* hard to get around an IP, its actually not as hard as one might think.

GarageGothic · Thu 06/05/2010 22:56:30

90% of the King's Quest world and its characters are ripped straight from public domain fairy tales, mythology and children's books anyway. And although the fans do seem to care an awful lot about that last 10% of generic soap opera starring the Daventry royals, I doubt a court would consider it original enough to be protected if the names were changed.

As Erpy suggested I do think the main legal issue with The Silver Lining is that their artwork was modeled so closely to resemble the original games. And unfortunately it's also the most time consuming part to redo. Not impossible, but considering how long it took to get this far and keeping in mind that a lot of the team's motivation came out of their love for the King's Quest series I wouldn't bet on it happening.