Avalon bar interior update - question

[Igor Hardy]

Hey people,

I wanted to ask if getting rid of the thick dark lines that showed where walls connect was a good idea, or does it make the whole thing more confusing?

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Old-New:



New-New:

[Tramponline]

Wow! Small change, big difference! Your new one looks far better, I think. IMHO it blends in very smoothly and you can grasp the room's depth a lot better this way.

[Dualnames]

Wow! Small change, big difference! Your new one looks far better, I think. IMHO it blends in very smoothly and you can grasp the room's depth a lot better this way.

Seconded. It really makes the background look wayyy better (not that its bad).

[evenwolf]

Thirded!    I like the style.  Kinda whimsical and hectic BUT you know how to draw the player's focus.

[Matti]

Um, fourtheded?

The smooth edges look much better than the black lines. They aren't confusing and fit perfectly well into the background.


Edit: evenwolf, you're back after suddenly disappearing two years ago?

[Ilyich]

Fifthed! The new one looks better and, actually, is less confusing, because characters pop up to the front and the background stays at the back.

[Igor Hardy]

Thanks guys! I've been looking at this image for so long that I'm never completely sure what is an improvement and what isn't.

[ALPHATT]

I'd say make sure the perspective is right before painting it, but in all honesty I like it as is. I'd like to see the characters blend in a little bit more. Also, the bottom two tables feel rushed out in comparison.

[Kaio]

I like the perspective...looks kinda like a wierd dream I had a few days ago.....
Anywho, if I was you, I'd try to "clean" things up a little. Let me show you what I mean:



Sorry 'bout the bad paint-over, I'm kinda in a rush. Just try to get rid of the "white" spots that are in your background an smooth it out. Look at the bar, where the telefone stands. And the door.
If it looks to blurry, add some outlines, maybe, or some contrast.

I hope this helps. Keep it up.

[InCreator]

Somehow... shadow in the front - even though it adds excitement - totally steals focus from the rest of the image. Like someone's holding something sharp infront of your eye... It kind of forces you to move eyes there... I'd reduce darkness alot.

Apart from this, I like overall graphics style it looks fun! But try paint more properly, don't leave gaps. Pipes next to bar look really bad. Also, area behind counter feels like a bathtub full of smoke.

[Ryan Timothy B]

About that shadow...
I know that while I played that game, I didn't understand why I couldn't interact with the two people at the bottom of the screen.  I was frustrated.  I'm the kind of player who doesn't walk anywhere unless it takes me somewhere.  But usually only walking if the hotspot, character, etc that I've clicked on, has made the player walk there.

So I could NOT for the life of me figure out what I had to do to progress in the game.  Then Ben tells me "you have to walk in the shadow".  I was actually quite angry and disappointed with myself.

I honestly thought that the shadow meant that the characters are just foreground elements for the time being.
To quote Will Ferrell in Zoolander, "I feel like I'm taking crazy pills!".  Am I the only one who had issues with that?  haha

[markbilly]

I had issues with that - took me a while to work out what to do.

[Igor Hardy]

Woah! Now I can't keep up with the ideas brought up in your comments. Thank you for them all!

In general I must say there won't be many more updates for this particular background. I'm rather happy about it now, but more importantly me, Baron and Thomas need to quickly finish the new content that will go into the final version of the game. Sorry.

@ALPHATT Thanks. I was definitely no friends of perspective while making this background. And I liked having some elements of the background feel rushed.

@Kaio A stronger more defined left edge of the bar might be a good idea. The door is like it is, because I tried to make it extra ugly. It's a metal door with a pink paint-over and a lot of dirt on it, there are scratches in the paint and in some areas "the pink" has given away completely. The door had even a picture of a duckie at one point, but I felt it was too distracting. The white spots are to make the walls seem chopped and the whole background look rougher.

@InCreator That area was actually meant to look like a bathtub full of smoke! I'm unable to explain why though. And, no, it wasn't meant to be some awful fart joke.

@RyanTimothy  @markbilly My response depends on what version of the game you played. If you played the version released for the MAGS deadline, then I must admit I messed up a bit in this specific matter. The idea was for the player to overhear bits of a disturbing dialog when wandering around the bar and feel compelled to search for the voices source. In the initial release I screwed up with defining the voice hearing areas - the hero could easily avoid walking onto those areas entirely. For the player who proves to be insensitive to those subtler suggestions, there's additional pointer. After getting his drink Jack overhears something very specific and asks "WHERE DID THAT COME FROM?". I find these to be sufficient enough hints.

[Ryan Timothy B]

I'm not sure which one I played, but I do remember him saying "Where did that come from?", for some reason.

Anyway, the shadow itself seems like a very broken element of the game.  It would have been much better with a different angle of the bar with those two characters sitting in the background instead.  And since you're asking for critique on the overall piece, this is an element I would honestly change.  But you sound like you're already near completion anyway.

That hint basically says he heard something, but doesn't know who or what said it.  Due to the wacky environment this game took place, I would assume it was his own mind and not those people -- unless you actually see them speaking and see the words.

A hint like "What are those two talking about? I need to get closer." would be a sufficient hint I suppose.  Because knowing that you have to walk on the shadow, to me, isn't giving anything away, since it definitely wasn't obvious for me.  It's like knowing that a doorway takes you to another room, or having your mouse highlight when it's over a hotspot.  It definitely doesn't spoil the game.


But hey, with the newest version (if that's the one I haven't played) if you sincerely think it's obvious enough, who am I to tell you how confusing and frustrating it was.

[Igor Hardy]

Hey, I'm really happy you take your time to tell me about your impressions.

Anyway, the shadow itself seems like a very broken element of the game.  It would have been much better with a different angle of the bar with those two characters sitting in the background instead.

For better or worse, I really liked the idea to have the most important and shadowy characters "hidden" in the foreground and that it is not how things are usually done in games and movies. It is actually one of my favorite elements of Snakes. Though the fact that such design choices are uncommon makes it definitely a challenge to hint at it well enough for the player.

That hint basically says he heard something, but doesn't know who or what said it.  Due to the wacky environment this game took place, I would assume it was his own mind and not those people -- unless you actually see them speaking and see the words.

I can definitely agree with that. I'll work on it to make it clearer that the voice isn't a product of Jack's mind. But...

A hint like "What are those two talking about? I need to get closer." would be a sufficient hint I suppose.  

...But I definitely don't want to give the player direct instructions what he has to do to proceed. Things like that break games for me as a player.

[Igor Hardy]

Another update (inspired by your comments here) lays attached to the original post in this very thread! Isn't she just beautiful?

Frankly, I can't believe the original looks so plain in comparison despite the lack of any radical changes.

[TerranRich]

I love the wonky eyes of the bartender.

Overall, a great improvement over the original.