Discussing Inspiration, Genres and Emotion

[Fatal]

Hello!

I'm Fatal, and I'm new to these forums but this isn't an introduction thread. What I am here for is, as the title might suggest, to discuss inspiration and emotion for point-and-click graphic adventure games, and to garner how other other people tend to think up their ideas. As the Executive Producer and Lead Writer of an indie game studio who is now interested in the avenue of point-and-click adventure games, I've been brainstorming ideas, alone and with the team, about what sort of starting project we could work with. However we are struggling to come up with a solid concept as we have thus far managed to pick apart each concept we have thought up. We have all trawled these forums in search for information of all sorts; the most popular games (and the successful commercial ones) tend to be serious dramas, horrors or crime thrillers. The light-hearted and comical nature of the old Lucas Arts games seems to have all but evaporated from the major market. Is this true? Is it perhaps wiser to go with a more serious edge than a non-serious one for the sake of being accepted, or are people awaiting the revival of the old comic toned adventure games?

As for the specific genres and settings, we've thrown this ball around and around. For a comic adventure game, we don't want to work with pirates (since it's perhaps best to veer clear of the classics) but we want an element of adventure, exploration and exoticness to the game. We're had a look at the idea of a medieval peasant-to-knight tale but that's been done, but we've also looked at the possibilities of doing a medieval detective tale filled with anachronisms. Then again, speaking of detectives, we've looked at other potential genres. The two main serious genres that we've considered in great depth is horror and crime. I'm a self-published crime author so the latter is far more natural but I am worried about making too cinematic. Besides, a crime thriller adventure game would require a few hours of content before I could consider it well-paced and intriguing and going from knowing nothing to attempting to wrestle a feature-length video game isn't just difficult for me, but for the poor developers who would be working on this. Sure, this could be a chance to introduce our characters in a similar manner to how television shows sometimes structure their pilot (begin at the end of an investigation, a chase ensues, the detective catches him, introduction credits and theme music before the actual case of the episode begins) but the problem is how to make it fast-paced and tense during a chase when the person is thinking "alright, how do I break open this door using a pack of gum, a cigarette and a Glock 22".

How have people entered the Adventure Game Studio scene? Each of us has experience in developing video games so we aren't amateurs in that sense, but we won't pull off an immediate hit with the most custom experience ever. We want to create a short-but-sweet experience that introduces emotion, whether that be a laughter-inducing comic adventure game, or a fear-inducing horror adventure game, or even a shocking crime thriller adventure game, or something different. However, instead of the constant in-team discussions, we've decided to consult the experts here: You, the one reading this.


What are the "in" genres, and what are people hoping for?

What games have managed to induce emotion from their consumers best?

What settings are well-received, and where do people gain their inspiration?

What genres are best to work with at the beginning, and what is best for a short-and-sweet trial approach?


On behalf of the team, I appreciate the time invested in reading this, and hopefully the time invested in responding.

[qptain Nemo]

I like playing games made by people who are really excited by what the game is about. You know, the classic indie formula: make the game you want to play. Please make something you're personally genuinely passionate about (as an author) with minimum compromises. Especially, since you're talking about emotions.

For reference, short games by Ben304 are rather popular in here and relevant circles. Well, guess what, he makes games about whatever the fuck he wants.

Such is my opinion.

[Babar]

When you mentioned that all the commercially successful and popular games seem to be serious dramas, horrors or crime thrillers, I said hmm...she's right. But then you mentioned not wanting to do pirates, and I remembered Nelly Cootalot, and how the sequel was successfully funded. Then there was the Journey Down, which I enjoyed immensely as well. I don't think there is anything wrong with taking an old idea if you put your own unique spin on it.

Everything you're saying is the stuff I like...light-hearted, comical, exploration, a sense of adventure (rather than just as a title of the genre), etc., but I don't think a comedic adventure game should be done simply because it might be considered easier to do than a more serious game. Good comedy is pretty hard, and I've seen lots of (low-key, though) games that tried going that route, slightly missed it with the comedic tones, and fell flat on their face.

Games from recent memory that induced emotion for me were....The Walking Dead, I guess? I just played it a month or so ago, but I'm not sure that'd be the appropriate direction to go gameplay-wise.

I suppose if I had to distil the things that I enjoyed about the old classics, I would say the sense of adventure, the exploration, the feeling of being in that world, discovering new places and people, the sights, sounds, how it was filled up, and the protagonists reactions to everything. But it probably takes a lot of effort (or money) to create that feeling. I dunno.

[Fatal]

Interesting responses thus far, and I'm downloading a few of the aforementioned games right now (Nelly Cootalot has just downloaded now, in fact!) to understand the market better. Knowing full well that Lucas Arts (RIP and all that) will not be producing another adventure game like it used to, if at all, then there's a definite void in the market that we wish to fill. As someone who fell in love with the retro design format, and someone who intends to make that the art pattern in all future releases, then there is a potential issue with it being an adventure-game using a nine-verb, low-resolution format based around pirates, humour and anachronisms. Hence the worries, and hence the considerations for other settings that epitomise adventure, exploration and exoticness.

Medieval settings is a perhaps for me, but I'm not convinced. There's something about pirates that worked in Monkey Island, but I can't place a darn finger on it, I'm afraid. Perhaps someone might stumble upon it? That's the spirit I want to imbue our releases with. Not emulate, but imbue. Accepting how the classics did it, using it ourselves and making it unique. But I will forever be worried about using pirates as a setting.

[selmiak]

Science Fiction is great. And also pirates. Hey, Space Pirates... Go, go, go!

[Fatal]

So I just spent a night reflecting and a morning of adventure games, and I've come up with almost naught if not a few more puzzling ideas and discussions here and there. Whilst N Coot made me chuckle here and there, it doesn't make me feel all that confident about another pirate-themed adventure game. As for space pirates, I've never been one for such a crossover. I have, however, been looking around at literature, video games, televisions shows and so forth for the much-needed inspiration. I watched Mad Dogs (a dark humoured tale about four lad's on a weekend abroad that goes, to be blunt, tits up) and that made me think how dark humour could have the potential to contrast with the retro and cartoon-ish graphics that a 16-bit adventure game would provide. Would this be a positive or negative contrast, however?

However, this show wouldn't convert at all regardless of whether the tone would. A new setting with unique characters would be required, that's for certain. Pirates? Four swashbuckling pirates who have to work together to face forever-growing dire straits with the odds forever-growing against them? You know... Being shipwrecked on an island leading to constant arguments and compromises and problems to solve... that leads them to realise there's a curse on the island... then one of the crew ends up gaining unwanted attempt from the local cannibals... who then managed to escape and flee... just to find themselves oodles of treasure... just to end up being caught at the mercies of continental-feared pirates... and it gets worse and worse and worse from there. Whilst that might be unique, there are no doubt other alternatives.

Another idea we had was the idea of a unwilling monster hunter who, to save someone or something (we have some good ideas for this, too good to share for now), has to take down various Universal Monsters (Dracula, the Wolf Man and so forth) and perhaps that can take the element of dark-humour and the element of "it gets worse and worse and worse"? What do other people think of dark/black comedies as adventure games? After all, most people who remember the Lucas Arts games are "all grown up" now, but it isn't something that requires a Lucas Arts fan to get into. It's standalone, I hope.

What do others think?

[MiteWiseacreLives!]

Medieval settings is a perhaps for me, but I'm not convinced. There's something about pirates that worked in Monkey Island, but I can't place a darn finger on it,

My thoughts, Pirates work because of the potential for characters. You can imagine all sorts of over the top personalities. Also the fantasy of exploration, children are fascinated with pirates because there is an entire world that's nearly entirely from folklore and imagination (how much do we know about pirates? really? the factual stuff is horrific.).
Medieval setting is a great idea too, I personally kind of long for more of this. Try playing 'Tale of Two Kingdoms', it is constantly downloaded and its carefully thought out puzzles each with multiple solutions are terrific. That game is an AGS benchmark as far as I'm concerned, bear in mind I have not nearly played all the games released on this site.

[Myinah]

I seems you are looking for a formula by which to make your game a commercial success, which I think it a bit of a fruitless endeavour. I don't think a formula exists for successful indie games outside of the developer bringing the player their own unique experience through story, game play or art. Comedy games are still popular too, Telltale had commercial successes with Tales of MI and the Sam and Max releases. Hector was another comedy game they produced. The Book of Unwritten Tales, Critters Chronicles and The Chaos on Deponia games are all recent comedy releases. The Walking Dead is of course amazing, but drama/horror is certainly not the only successful genre now.

The thing that will make your game a success is a passion for the story combined with good writing. As the lead writer of the game, if you are writing what you think a particular demographic will want, or writing in a genre you aren't familiar with or a fan of then it's probably not going to be a good game. If you have no sincere interest in the story it will show. If you write a story you want to tell, that you care about, then it will really come across and people will probably enjoy it. I like to lose myself in the worlds other people create, whether it is books, TV shows or video games. Write something you personally love. If you are a good writer I'm sure it will be a success.

[CaptainD]

You've already had some great responses and I can't add much to those.  However what I will do is ask you a question - what are you good at writing?  (Or at least, what type of fiction do you enjoy writing most, which often although not always amounts to the same thing.)  Maybe you have an old set of stories that could be brought to lief / a character you've written about before who is maybe ready for a new adventure.

One thing I'm a little concerned about from your point of view is that most people who end up making point and click adventure games tend to be people who have loved playing them over the years.  I may be wrong, but it looks more like this was maybe a commercial decision for you.  That's not to say that (if I'm right with that assumption) you won't be able to make good or even great adventure games of course.  If you really can't think of an idea you're enthusiastic about enough to develop (and let's face it, making an adventure game really is a labour of love), maybe you can start with a book / film that you particularly love, and go at a tangent from there, then develop your own characters. 

I'm also not entirely sure what your "short but sweet" approach will mean in real terms - short adventure games?  Short episodic adventure games as part of a season that has its own storyline?

[Fatal]

Allow me to elaborate on the "short-but-sweet" comment - this is our first adventure game endeavour so we'd begin working on a few smaller pilot products (half an hour shorts and so forth and build up over time) to ensure our understanding of the market and of the engine in itself. If people like a centre genre of ours more than the other, then we'd look to see what people like best. Coming here was all about discussing what genres people feel have not be touched so that we might be able to touch upon them with our own unique twist. However, it is rather interesting what was said about the audience we'd aim for; although it is true that recent adventure games are both for old fans and new, the more retro games tend to bring in an older and more nostalgic generation (as well as a good proportion of new fans because who doesn't love a bit of the new-but-oldies).

At least that's what the research I've conducted tells me, and I am no qualified sociologist or market researcher so who knows how valid and reliable that data is?

As for what writing I take pleasure in - it's a good mix of different genres. I have been known to write comedic satire in the past (I used to write for a short animated cartoon a while back that poked fun at DND/RPG games) and I've been published writing crime/horror blends in the past. However, upon another morning of brainstorming with the team, we discovered a quite interesting idea that came from a rather peculiar source. We might look into setting something like that up and see people respond to it. It's a comedic adventure game with respectful parodies towards the old horror movies with an interesting protagonist who has quite a... unusual problem, might I add.

However, what I do have to ask is this? The nine-verb SCUMM GUI - is it a bad choice to use? We want to establish a single GUI across our adventure game career (although we'll experiment here and there for obvious reasons) but I do wonder whether that might cause legal issues. Perhaps it would need to be similar but unique?

[dactylopus]

I'd recommend a two-click interface, similar to Beyond a Steel Sky.  A lot of the other interfaces, like the 9-verb, verb-coin, and Sierra icon bar (default) are considered by many to be outdated and clunky.

As for the writing, I would suggest working to your strengths.  If you've had success with crime or horror, that might be the way to go.  You've mentioned an interest in a medieval setting, it would be interesting to set your scary crime story in that setting.  I'm a fan of dark humor, and I don't think it would be out of place in such a game.  And if you go the more serious route, there is always room for comic relief.

You've also discussed the possibility of using classic horror characters, such as Dracula and the Wolf Man.  I may be in the minority, but I feel that these characters are somewhat worn out.  Unless you can do something fresh in this context, it might be better to steer clear.  Having said that, I will acknowledge that these characters are very popular and could help bring attention to your project.  Also, I am not against the base concept of a monster hunter, there may be more to explore in that idea.

I'd like to echo the sentiments of others before me and say that you shouldn't focus too heavily on the market.  Instead, focus on creating something that moves you, something more personal.  Successful indie games tend to be passion projects.  In fact, that's the appeal of an indie game for a lot of players.  Building something unique that would not be available in the mainstream is a boon for the independent developer.

Finally, these are simply my own preferences and opinions.  Feel free to create what works for you, and good luck!

[Andail]

Take a look at recent successful adventure games and you'll find a vast range of genres and styles. If you're too conscious about trends and fads, it's only gonna give you a headache when you're a third into your project and the trend has changed slightly. People who only worry about how their games will fit the market will constantly switch between projects, and never finish anything, and if they do it won't feel genuine anyway.

Just because whacky comedy is not currently as big as during the heydays of LucasArt doesn't mean it's not viable. I think comedy is inherently more difficult to pull off, and perhaps more people are hesitant to give it a go. Comedy is a sensitive field, because if you don't appreciate it, you'll probably just find it irritating.

I think you should consider an adventure game a story that you want to tell. Do you want to tell a story? Then tell it. If not, go create something less plot-driven.