AGS Awards 2023 - The future of the awards (1st post updated)

[Kastchey]

Yes, that was my understanding.

I would say no, and I would even treat it the other way round. So for example, if you made a surprise release of CD3 before the end of the year, that would in my view qualify the product to compete with other full version games, not the demos, even though you have a separate database entry for the demo itself.

I know that demos sometimes differ slightly from the end product (I recall CD2 demo had different puzzles to the final game), but at the end of the day this is the same title and it might be difficult to draw the line between the two when nominating.

[Snarky]

Personally my inclination is the opposite of Kastchey's: I don't think the release of the full game should disqualify the demo from competing in that category, and I tend to think it is more fair to not require a separate db entry for the demo.

My logic is that I don't think arbitrary release-schedule windows should ever totally disqualify entries from competing in the Awards (in a year). It seems unfair to me that if Demo A and Demo B are both released in 2023, and Game A is released in December 2023 while Game B comes out in January 2024, the demos should therefore be treated differently. As for having a separate entry, that seems like a fairly irrelevant criterion, and punishes developers for using the db the way the current setup encourages.

The question can be fairly consequential. For 2022 there were 7 commercial games with demo links on the page of the commercial game, and where the demos were released the same year:

Spoiler

Beyond The Edge Of Owlsgard (demo 21. March)
Captain Hook and the Lost Girl (demo 7. July)
Gongbot (demo 2. May)
Graceward - Complete Edition (release demo 26. December)
Grandma Badass (release demo 22. November; there was a preview demo in 2020; I haven't compared it, but the file size of the final demo is 8 times bigger)
Snow Problem (demo 11. May)
SPHONX (demo 27. May)

[close]

Meanwhile, there were only 4 demos with separate db entries (none of which had a full game release in 2022).

[cat]

How which games/demos would be affected in 2023?

[Kastchey]

How which games/demos would be affected in 2023?

Only Abscission, I think.

I agree that having separate entries (or not) for two versions of the title shouldn't be a factor, and I do think we should be consistent in whatever approach we take.

I do still feel though that if anything, it seems unfair not to exclude the demo of a released game, because otherwise we are allowing other demos to compete with a full product. Demos are by definition shorter, less immersive and offer very limited experience, and as such it makes sense that they have their own category. If one of them comes with a full product within the same competition, it significantly changes how the title is received.

This said, it's not a hill to die on If the general consensus is that the release date should be the only factor, then let's do that and just ensure we consistently add the demos to the list if they are available.

[Snarky]

I see your point. I assumed that voters would judge the demo on its own merits, but I don't suppose that's a safe expectation. Of course, you could still get into situations where that would apply, if the full game is released in the next year but before the voting starts.

[Cassiebsg]

Personally, I've always took, that a Demo of a commercial game should be eligible for the Best demo, as long as individual entries in the db, independently of when the  final game is/was released. As long as it hasn't been eligible to the award before, that is.

But the hard thing for me, was always to figure if the said commercial game has a Demo and when was it released...

A demo should be a short version of the game, that demonstrates the game, playability, puzzles, story, etc. Normally 5-15 minutes game play (depending on how long the final game it). Release date for the demo should have no baring on whether it should be eligible for the award. Mostly cause one can make a demo to generate expectation and support for the development o said game (early bird, crowdfunding, etc), or be released along with the commercial game for people to evaluate if they want to buy the game.

[cat]

I don't have a strong opinion. The only thing is: with the current filter, demos are only eligible if they have their own database entry. So for simplicity's sake, I would leave it as is, for this year.

[Kastchey]

Yes, I agree. But I think Snarky made a good observation. We will probably reopen the Awards discussion next year after the ceremony, so let's add this to the list of points to be revisited.

[Kastchey]

I only now noticed that Murder Cases may be missing length specification in the database. I think it should be a demo?

[heltenjon]

I only now noticed that Murder Cases may be missing length specification in the database. I think it should be a demo?

Updated.

[Kastchey]

Thank you!