Do you like offensive games?

[Kwark]

Most AGS games, or any adventure games for that matter, are so damn SOFT!!

What do you think about explicit sex, language, violence and rude jokes in games?

[Archangel (aka SoupDragon)]

Only if there's a point

I liked the swearing in TLJ, because it added to the characterisation in a realistic manner. But it was never gratuitious. I think the question "do you like offensive games" is pretty dumb, because if a game is "gritty" with a purpose then it shouldn't be offensive, and neither should you put down a game because it isn't gritty enough.

[Dmitri]

depends on your use of offensive, if a game offends me, then no, I probably won't like it

if the game is offensive because some snooty old censor or hysterical mother of 4 little children thinks so, then I won't care.

I'll care about the game, just not their opinions.

Of course then there's context, if you make a (god forbid) my little pony fan game, I wouldn't expect the characters to be drug using, smoking, swearing dysfunctional adolescents.

Unless it's presented in a satirical or ironic fashion mind you, i.e. what the ponies really thought of 'Sunshine' or some such (taking a wild stab at a ponylike name).

But still, it's an iffy subject, basically as archy said, if it's needed, go for it, but you'll have a bugger of a time trying to tell me why a preteen purple pony who talks about love and lollipops just plopped a cigarette in her mouth

[agsking]

I think, people sould make games they would want to play.
If you would want to play a rude, offensive, nude game, they make one.
If you would want to play a furry pink faryland game (somethings wrong, get help) then make one.
I myself like violent dark AGS games like Pluergburg: Dark Ages, but then again I also like any AGS game, it really just depends on your style.

[remixor]

This question seems to come up a lot here.  I'm not sure if "offensive" is the right word.  Obviously, as Dmitri says, if a game offends you, you probably wouldn't want to play it.  That can be different than a game containing profane language or sexual material, both of which are fine in certain contexts.  I don't even know why people always need to ask this.  If you have a prostitute character in your game, obviously there will be more sexual material.  If your game is all about Ghandi alone in a box, there probably won't.  Hooray!

[MachineElf]

A My Little Pony game definately must have some LSD-references...

[Barcik]

Depends.

Some games will be offensive just for the point of it: throw 'fuck' here, and 'shit' there just to sound cool.

But in others, it can actually help with defining the characters' personality and to build the atmosphere of the game.

[Ginny]

Yeah, like TLJ.

If it fits the characters to be rude (*cough*Zack*cough*), talk about their sex life (*cough*Fiona*cough*) or swear all the time (*cough*Burns Flipper*cough*), then sure.
But if it doesn't, there's no need to put in profanity just for the sake of it IMO.

[anasazi]

What makes something offensive is usually the manner in which it is presented, rather than the actual subject material.  Sexism, racism, drug use, and politics are part of society.
I'm usually annoyed by games (set in a realistic setting) that completely by-step any possible issue that might offend somebody, because it means that the game designer was more interested in appeasing his demographic, rather than creating a world that characters could be immersed in.
That said, I'm personally not going to play games that handle the issues a thoughtless way.  If the character's goal is to be a pimp and collect prostitutes to support his wild lifestyle, I want some recognition that this is an *issue* for some people, and not just a natural way of life.  If the character is going to assassinate Adolf Hitler, I want reasons and set-up and characterization behind it.  
This doesn't happen in a lot of games for normal issues.  (Why does the hero in Quest for Glory want to be a hero, anyway?)  So it's good to stay away the issues that will offend people unless they will add something to your game or you're able to handle them in a manner that will make people think.  (Gasp!  Wheeze!)

[GarageGothic]

Damn hell shit yes, I like offensive games!

But seriously. Let me ask this: What makes something offensive in a game but not in a movie? Why can't games have mature themes without getting into a world of trouble (it took a long while to find an American publisher for TLJ because of the language and the gay character). Nobody cares about sex in movies or on tv - but in games it's suddenly very naughty, the same thing about bad language. Where are the adventure game equivalents of Dennis Hopper in Blue Velvet or Joe Pesci in just about anything except Home Alone? It's as if game designers still belive that games are just for kids. We can't have ANYTHING offensive on the shelves, even though you have to be 15 or 18 to buy the games.

But then there are the games TRYING to be offensive. And most often that's their only selling point. I'm talking about games like Postal 2, where you can piss on people till they puke (!) or pour gasoline on civilians and throw matches at them. They may be offensive, but they're certainly not mature!

To a certain degree, that was the case with Phantasmagoria 1 and 2 as well. There was little need for all that gore - few GOOD horror films have so much graphic violence. And the sex scenes in P2 were just there to sell the game - seriously, did anyone find them remotely erotic? They were more Playboy channel than Hellraiser and never felt anywhere near as kinky as they were supposed to be (but then again, not even Kubrick managed to convey kinkyness in the Eyes Wide Shut orgy).

The only games I've played that had mature themes - and needed them to work - are probably Gabriel Knight 2 and Blade Runner. Gabe used them to give the characters depth, in Blade Runner it was part of the dark atmosphere. And, oh yes, I nearly forgot, Dreamweb - probably the most underrated adventure game ever. The way it used sex, and the way it contrasted it with violence - amazing. The assassination of the rock star, I'll never forget that scene. One of the darkest games I've ever played. And one of the most interesting.

Does a game containing sex, violence and bad language need to be offensive? Not necessarily, if handled tastefully, but it can also be used as a strong artistic effect. Just see the films of David Lynch or Martin Scorsese.

By the way, the content ratings for Shadowplay will probably be:

Bad Language - Strong (possibly frequent)
Sex - Sex scenes
Violence - Strong

I think it's important to ask yourself: "Does the game really need this? Would removing it detract in any way from the game?" but it's also important not to "dumb it down", so to speak. If you're making a serious game and you have people fucking (sorry, making love), then either show it (not necessarily explicitly) or cut away. Don't show me a damn fireplace or the curtains blowing in the wind. The same thing with nudity in general - show it or don't show it, just don't do the Hollywood thing - Austin Powers style - and show everything except the naughty parts. I'd much rather NOT see somebody naked than be painfully aware of the censorship. And please don't replace four letter words with less offensive ones. If the character would use those words, use them, otherwise rewrite the character.

I like some games that may be considered. Often I don't find them very offensive though. But I am aware, and I do appreciate that they use mature themes and speak to me as an adult, not as an American adolescent (you know, European teens, except Brits , are allowed to see nearly anything).

[rodekill]

I actually made Earwig as an experiment.
First I wanted to see if anyone would point out the fact that he wasn't a white kid (No one did, and most people I asked later said they didn't even notice).
Secondly, I wanted to see what kind of reaction I would get to a game that was basically nothing but causing harm to others.
Well, needless to say, it got a more positive reaction than any of my other games (Aside from on HOTU. Man, I love that site.). I don't know why. Maybe it was the content, maybe my other games suck, or maybe people just like the Devil character...

[m0ds]

I don't think some should set out to make a "violent" game simply for the sake of violence. If the plot requests it, or it strengthens the game in some way, then fair enough.

Wolf 3D sold, didn't it?


m0ds

[taryuu]

what's offensive?? who decides?  hell i like hentai games, they don't offend me in the slightest.  in fact i'm making my own hentai adventrue game with ags.
and anyone who doesn't like it can suck my balls.

You're going to find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view.

[Dmitri]

Taryuu: Make a really graet plot for the game, but then get a REALLY bad Japanese translator and ship it to Japan to let them know how we feel about their crap

[remixor]

Taryuu: Make a really graet plot for the game, but then get a REALLY bad Japanese translator and ship it to Japan to let them know how we feel about their crap

I'm not convinced a lot of that stuff STARTS with what could possibly be conceived as a cohesive, much less great, plot.

[PeaceMan]

There is no such thing as an "offensive" game. It can either be a crap adventure with swearing and nudity to help it sell or it can be an adventure aimed at adults with a good story.

[TerranRich]

I think cursing could be very strong and powerful if used, say, only when the character is VERY pissed off. Violence can have its place in games, if used properly as part of the storyline and not just filler or additives.

As for sex, I have to disagree with GarageGothic; I think partial or even mere suggested nudity can be far sexier and more erotic than full nudity. It leaves something to the imagination, and isn't that what adventure games are about? Imaginaton and story?

I would take suggested nundity (e.g., seeing just the top half from behind of a woman, or a woman sitting in a way to barely hide all the "parts" ) over full nudity any day. Call me crazy, but that's my preference.

[12431]

I like games with explicit content, but not if it doesn't have a purpose.

racist jokes, gayjokes or any kind of joke that would offend a certain community that did nothing to deserve it is not okay.

partial nudity and mild sexscenes are okay if they're there for a purpose, senseless sexscenes with total strangers are not okay.

cursing is okay when it's supposed to be there. (example: a dude's pissed off because someone kidnapped his wife. he says to a man responsible: "listen here asshole!")

voilence is okay in small or rediculously huge amounts. (by huge amounts i mean in a "monty python" kind of way). if it's supposed to look real, I wouldn't include much sick stuff.

[GarageGothic]

terranRICH: Maybe I didn't make myself clear, I'm not against partial nudity - and I do agree, full frontal is usually far less erotic. What I'm  against is nudity obviously framed for rating reasons. Like a medium closeup of a woman which just frames the picture just above the pubic hair, or a shot of a naked man turning around, which cuts away just a split second before you would see his willy. Or those L-shaped sheets they always have in movies, which cover the breasts of the woman sitting in the bed, while the guy sitting next to her is bare-chested.

These thing detract from the story because they make us aware that we are watching a movie, and that there is such a thing as censorship. I was merely warning against using conventions of commercial cinema in amateur adventure games.

[Hobbes]

Watch The Secretary. You'll be surprised to see how far Maggie Gyllenhaal will "go", so to speak. The male lead is, of course, standard Hollywood fare, but I was surprised to see this much nudity in a somewhat "mainstream" film.

On offensiveness: As said before, when it fits the setting, the character, go for it. If done right, it can be a wonderful addition to the narration. If you have characters who use low diction and stick to simple words, using "fuck" and all that slang works.

If you have a well-bred, high-scholared character, who uses eloquent words to phrase his meaning, such an audacious word as "fuck" would leave the poor person abed with a mild headache for weeks upon end.

Nudity-issue continued: Partial nudity is, indeed, more tantalising. It leaves things to be imagined. And particularly in adventure games where you're most likely stuck with a 640 x 480 (or 320x200) setting, use this partial nudity.