International Women's Day

[TheFrighter]

Tomorrow is International Women's Day!

I'd like to ask: how women are doing in the videogames business these days?



_

[Blondbraid]

Personally, I sometimes feel like it's going backwards looking at all the controversies and hate against new games that dare present strong female characters who aren't objects all while classic heroines like April Ryan and Kate Walker could be strong and nuanced protagonists wearing practical clothes without being questioned or accused of being pandering.

All the same I feel that this community has been great at making everyone feel welcome and that it has greatly encouraged me to keep making games and sharing my thoughts, and I've also been working on a new project with a female protagonist that I plan to add to the games in production thread soon.

[TheFrighter]

Personally, I sometimes feel like it's going backwards looking at all the controversies and hate against new games that dare present strong female characters who aren't objects all while classic heroines like April Ryan and Kate Walker could be strong and nuanced protagonists wearing practical clothes without being questioned or accused of being pandering.

Really? I didn't notice so much hate, almost in my country.   

_

[Blondbraid]

Personally, I sometimes feel like it's going backwards looking at all the controversies and hate against new games that dare present strong female characters who aren't objects all while classic heroines like April Ryan and Kate Walker could be strong and nuanced protagonists wearing practical clothes without being questioned or accused of being pandering.

Really? I didn't notice so much hate, almost in my country.   

_

Well, I think the Adventure game genre has been largely spared from the brunt of it, but I've seen lots of hateful comments surrounding many other games, and to name just one example the latest Battlefield got tons of hate for being "disrespectful to history" by letting people pick the gender and skin color of their avatar in a game set in WW2, whereas the 2004 game Silent Storm, also set in WW2 and you can pick the skin color and gender of your avatar, doesn't have a single review scolding the game for it.

[Ali]

Personally, I sometimes feel like it's going backwards

I think there's a deliberate attempt by miscellaneous bigots to pull culture back to a completely imagined "good old days". If Jurassic Park were released now, people would say "Oh, they made the hacker a girl? She's a total Mary Sue." If Indiana Jones were made now, people would be yelling, "why did they make the baddies Nazis? Talk about virtue signalling! Keep politics out of entertainment!"

I'm not sure the adventure genre is immune either. I recently wasted a morning arguing in this Facebook P&C group https://www.facebook.com/groups/230349270493876/ with a few idiots who make it clear that CERTAIN people aren't welcome in nerd-dom. Last week someone posted the feminist frequency video where a trans woman journalist criticises Leisure Suit Larry because of the scene where a trans woman "hilariously" rapes Larry. Most people were NOT happy, deliberately misgendered her, were homophobic towards me for POLITELY telling them to "fuck off and die", and then started to talk about GamerGate and Cultural Marxism, as if both those scandals weren't totally imaginary. The same thing happened when Chuchel turned orange and they were FURIOUS that developers would deliberately try not to seem racist. Free speech, etc.

It annoys me, not only because P&C games were pioneered by several women devs. But because weird niche interests attract people who feel like outcasts. How dare these twats start gatekeeping? It infuriates me to see these emotionally stunted 30-year olds putting up a "no girls or gays" sign on their treehouse.

[Jack]

GamerGate is imaginary? Didn't what's-her-name publicly apologise for single-handedly making Mein Kampf a best-seller again? I'm paraphrasing.

[Ali]

GamerGate's harassment of women was 100% real. The "ethics in game journalism" scandals that allegedly kicked it off are totally imaginary. Just like the scandal of Sarkeesian "stealing" people's money by doing a Kickstarter to make 5 videos and then going on to make 20 videos, and then several other series of videos.

[AnasAbdin]

Personally, I sometimes feel like it's going backwards looking at all the controversies and hate against new games that dare present strong female characters who aren't objects.

Unfortunately I feel the same.
Even now in my legal fight to save Tardigrades from cancellation, I've been accused of discrimination against women since all people were talking about are the male botanist and homosexual male characters. Omitting the fact that I have announced 5 strong female leads in the game since 2014.

My only response is: ¯\_(ãÆ'„)_/¯

[TheFrighter]

Unfortunately I feel the same.
Even now in my legal fight to save Tardigrades from cancellation, I've been accused of discrimination against women since all people were talking about are the male botanist and homosexual male characters.

How many of the accusators are women? 

_

[AnasAbdin]

I can remember 3 women out of my head now, because I was naïve enough to try to defend the project against them. I found out later they were actually sent to bug me deliberately. They did leave a negative impact and some damage. I'm not accusing anyone with anything. It just sucks to be under fire for every word said.

[Ali]

I've been accused of discrimination against women since all people were talking about are the male botanist and homosexual male characters. Omitting the fact that I have announced 5 strong female leads in the game since 2014.

That sounds annoying, but it's not quite the same as people criticising games because they have prominent female characters.

[AnasAbdin]

It's true Ali, even though the effect is the same. But then the question of what defines a prominent character comes to mind. A character can be very strong and leaves a huge impact even if used in a very short role. Now we all can agree that most of adventure games have male leads, it sucks but it's true. But this doesn't mean I'd write a story just to fulfill an agenda or prove something to a group of people. If I was inspired to write a story with a female lead I'd make the game, most of my role models in life are women, but I just don't have a story ready in hand with a female lead.

[Blondbraid]

I can remember 3 women out of my head now, because I was naïve enough to try to defend the project against them. I found out later they were actually sent to bug me deliberately. They did leave a negative impact and some damage. I'm not accusing anyone with anything. It just sucks to be under fire for every word said.

Yeah, one of the more frustrating strategies of these types is to, instead of openly criticizing a project they think is too progressive for being too progressive, they make up a false or exaggerated strawman claim that it's secretly bigoted and racist or sexist in the hope that naive people who genuinely think such things are wrong but haven't seen the project in question up close will swallow their bait and do their job for them.

In your case it's especially egregious considering that several female characters are already prominently visible in many of your clips and screenshots, and claiming a story is sexist just because the lead is a man is ridiculous. I consider myself a feminist yet I've too have made games where the central characters are men, simply because that's how I envisioned the characters and because their gender and background did play a role in the stories I wanted to tell, and I'm sure most would agree that just having a male main character or focus on the relation between two men isn't sexist in itself.

[Jack]

GamerGate's harassment of women was 100% real. The "ethics in game journalism" scandals that allegedly kicked it off are totally imaginary.

That part happened too. Whether the accusations are true or not is unknown. The fact is the things she had produced up to that point are like hourgames, but some "journalists" had made more out of this than was there, because "OMG IDZ A WOMENZ". But this wasn't gamergate either. Gamergate happened when practically everyone in the gaming press closed ranks when those accusations came to light. They were white knighting hard for the helpless damsel, and they provided most of the energy that went into that little storm. Oh, it happened. It changed the world forever.

You want to deny cultural marxism. These days you are not allowed to say anything that might hurt the feelings of any one, because that person's entire psyche might collapse and they kill themselves, and in the next moment you are expected to believe that this same person is not just capable, but strong. Forget cultural marxism, that was in the 60s. This kind of completely contradictive thinking is logical marxism. Beliefs decreed by the institution.

Finally those capitalist pigs will pay for their crimes, eh comrades?

[Ali]

Jack - every single thing you've written is bollocks.

A game dev's embittered ex-boyfriend making unfounded allegations is not evidence of a scandal. The journalist she allegedly had an affair with didn't even review her game! If he had, then HE would be morally compromised - not her. And yet she was the victim of a sustained campaign of harassment, by sexist twats. And the morons they suckered in.

(I don't care if you don't like Quinn's game. It couldn't be less relevant.)

Cultural Marxism, on the other hand, is merely a revival of a Nazi conspiracy theory about (mostly Jewish) left-wing academics and degenerate artists destroying our traditional culture. It doesn't refer to a recognisable ideology, or a social movement. It's an anti-intellectual lumping together of disparate movements and academic disciplines.

GamerGate is weaponized, defiantly ignorant misogyny. Cultural Marxism is a phrase for alt-right half-wits who want to sound clever. If you're taking either of them seriously, I encourage you to reflect a little.

[Jack]

I didn't suggest that she banged all those dudes. I specifically said something like "Whether the accusations are true or not is unknown." I was just making the point that the accusations happened. And the frankly conspicuous actions of the gaming press following the accusations happened too. This last part was the start of gamergate proper.

[Ali]

Yes, of course the bogus allegations happened! But since they were bogus, I was right to say that the "ethics in game journalism" scandal was imaginary. I don't know how you can find it suspicious that some people in the gaming press took the side of an innocent woman who was the target of a hate campaign.

I don't want to hog this thread, we can all enjoy conspiracy theories. But some of these wacky theories do real harm, and hurt real people.

[Jack]

What they did is go off like a flare, like they got their hands caught in the cookie jar. It was conspicuous to the casual observer/gamer.

But yeah, so harmful these opinions that people have. But who will make sure the opinions we are allowed to discuss are the safe ones, comrade?

[Blondbraid]

You want to deny cultural marxism. These days you are not allowed to say anything that might hurt the feelings of any one, because that person's entire psyche might collapse and they kill themselves, and in the next moment you are expected to believe that this same person is not just capable, but strong. Forget cultural marxism, that was in the 60s. This kind of completely contradictive thinking is logical marxism. Beliefs decreed by the institution.

That's some ridiculous strawmanning if ever I've heard some. Whenever I hear "you're not allowed to say anything these days" I ask, why hasn't anyone thrown you in prison then? You can't advocate for free speech unless you're also prepared to accept that a great number of people will criticize what you say, and that also means accepting that many people today will criticize opinions they deem bigoted and harassing.

And speaking as someone whom had relatives living in Czechia back when it was ruled by an actual communist dictatorship, I find the casual allusion to one insulting. Back then, speaking up against the state meant you could legitimately end up in prison just because something you said, prisoners were isolated and abused until they were broken and even after they were released, they found themselves pariahs with no future and unable to get any job apart from the most demeaning ones. To compare that to people speaking back against you and some people getting banned from some forums for violating the rules (but still perfectly free to voice their opinions in other forums) is not comparable to a real communist dictatorship.

[Ali]

But yeah, so harmful these opinions that people have. But who will make sure the opinions we are allowed to discuss are the safe ones, comrade?

I don't think your stupid opinions are harmful. I think they're stupid. What's harmful are repeated harassment campaigns, led by people who share your opinions, that target women in games.

But Blondbraid is right, your free speech is intact. You can use it to support women-hating crybabies if you want.