Author Topic: Bechdel test and other media analysis about discrimination  (Read 22870 times)

WHAM

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Did you just unironically compare caring for children and doing housework with having mandatory vasectomies? Or am I reading this wrong?
Also: rejoice! Not sure if you've heard but women aren't forced to do those things in any modern western society as far as I am aware. Can't speak for other parts of the world, though.

EDIT: I realised my statement above is a bit too rosy for reality. Even in Finland there are both religious minority group and immigrant communities that have forms of near-enough forced marriages and outdated gender roles that are still strictly enforced. I think religious freedom laws, unfortunately, trump gender equality laws in some areas.
« Last Edit: 21 Jan 2021, 21:39 by WHAM »
Wrongthinker and anticitizen one. Pending removal to memory hole. | WHAMGAMES proudly presents: One More Fathom!

WHAM

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-AAA, sorry, I meant to edit post above, not make a double-post. Sorry, it's almost midnight and I'm tired!  :X-
Wrongthinker and anticitizen one. Pending removal to memory hole. | WHAMGAMES proudly presents: One More Fathom!

Did you just unironically compare caring for children and doing housework with having mandatory vasectomies? Or am I reading this wrong?
Because forced marriages and domestic violence was used to impose those things on women.
EDIT: I realised my statement above is a bit too rosy for reality. Even in Finland there are both religious minority group and immigrant communities that have forms of near-enough forced marriages and outdated gender roles that are still strictly enforced. I think religious freedom laws trump gender equality laws in some areas.
Oh yeah, the classic "only those bad immigrant men are misogynists " shtick.
You do know painting violence against women as an exclusively immigrant/non-white problem is a classic alt-right talking point?


WHAM

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Well, since Sweden is so close to Finland I'd expect the crime rate to be similar: can you find cases where forced marriage takes place among native Swedes outside of fringe religious communities?
Wrongthinker and anticitizen one. Pending removal to memory hole. | WHAMGAMES proudly presents: One More Fathom!

Well, since Sweden is so close to Finland I'd expect the crime rate to be similar: can you find cases where forced marriage takes place among native Swedes outside of fringe religious communities?
Forced marriage may be mostly within immigrant groups in Sweden, but I assure you that domestic abuse, sexual assault, and men murdering their wives are not.


WHAM

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Sure, domestic abuse exists most definitely in western societies, and the majority of domestic abuse is done by men.
However, as laws and practices have tried to take this into account, some injustices have formed as well.

Finland had a case rise up to news a few years back, where a man called the emergency number as his wife was beating him, and the emergency line responder laughed at him on the phone and asked "are you seriously getting beat up by a woman?". This same stigma is believed to also slightly distort the numbers (78% of documented cases in Finland were committed against female victims) as men are disincentivized to report as victims, or to seek medical aid, for fear of ridicule.

And while the law is written as gender neutral, the standard procedure for police responding to domestic disturbances is to cuff and remove the male from the household first (to "defuse the situation"), and only then start questioning people to find out what was happening, even if the man was the victim in that case. This procedure is apparently based on the idea that in case there are children in the household, the mother is best suited to stay with them.

These in no way override or nullify the needs of female victims, but showcase situations where this supposedly male-dominated society is acting in ways that are unequal to men as well. Obviously the goal should be to reduce domestic violence altogether. I won't say eliminate, because human beings are, well... imperfect. A goal of non-violent utopian society where no crimes are committed is a wonderful idea, but if that goal is set I believe it will never be reached without erasing humanity as a concept and replacing it with something else.
Wrongthinker and anticitizen one. Pending removal to memory hole. | WHAMGAMES proudly presents: One More Fathom!

Where's the injustice that has formed here? Doesn't biology dictate that the man is always the abuser, since he's stronger and more combat ready than the feee-male?
Now if only we had a movement to point out that biology doesn't say that and you should rethink all your naive assumptions about topics you know nothing about.
This has been pointed out to online anti-feminists for years now: feminism also helps men.

Like I said, you're making the point for us.

Also, yes, let's erase humanity as a concept (?? ?) what the fuck are you even talking about? And have you ever heard the phrase that "perfect is the enemy of good"? Just word salad at this point.
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WHAM

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Where's the injustice that has formed here? Doesn't biology dictate that the man is always the abuser, since he's stronger and more combat ready than the feee-male?
Now if only we had a movement to point out that biology doesn't say that and you should rethink all your naive assumptions about topics you know nothing about.
This has been pointed out to online anti-feminists for years now: feminism also helps men.

Like I said, you're making the point for us.

Also, yes, let's erase humanity as a concept (?? ?) what the fuck are you even talking about? And have you ever heard the phrase that "perfect is the enemy of good"? Just word salad at this point.

I did say I was an egalitarian, did I not? Thus I believe the laws should be just and equal to all humans, and applied thus, and this has always been my stance. Once again you seem to imply that, despite me clearly saying one thing, I must be meaning an entirely different thing somehow. Thus I have no idea what "point" I am making for you, save for my point of equality being good, and if that is the case then I happily agree.  (nod)

And yes, some forms of feminism also help men, because they are the kind that strive for true equality. I also call those feminists egalitarian, as that is a far more appropriate term for them than feminist.

As for the concept of humanity and the inherent imperfections therein, I feel that is a separate discussion that doesn't really suit this topic. Though if you wish to discuss the matter in more detail, I'd be happy to have that conversation with you, Khris. Or anyone else for that matter.  :)
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Looks like you missed my previous post.

Also thanks but no thanks.
I had folk laughing at me in 2016 when I said Trump might well win the presidency, but as we are in an election year again...

* clears throat *

FOUR - MORE - YEARS!
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WHAM

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Ha! I still got my MAGA hat, too! No regrets there, though I've no idea how that's relevant here. Still, thanks for the reminder!  :-D
Wrongthinker and anticitizen one. Pending removal to memory hole. | WHAMGAMES proudly presents: One More Fathom!

Where's the injustice that has formed here? Doesn't biology dictate that the man is always the abuser, since he's stronger and more combat ready than the feee-male?
Now if only we had a movement to point out that biology doesn't say that and you should rethink all your naive assumptions about topics you know nothing about.
This has been pointed out to online anti-feminists for years now: feminism also helps men.

Like I said, you're making the point for us.
Indeed, I'm sick and tired of men who think they get to have it both ways. If you spout a bunch of stereotypes masked as "science" claiming men are not only naturally built for strength and protecting women, but also disposable and mostly OK with giving up their lives to protect women, and berate modern society for allowing men to grow flabby and weak, you can't be surprised when these stereotypes backfire on men and male victims of female violence get laughed at and treated as a ridiculous role-reversal.


WHAM

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Oh well, since it matters not what I say, let us have some light-hearted humor.



EDIT: as someone who has been a victim of domestic violence: don't key your own car.
Wrongthinker and anticitizen one. Pending removal to memory hole. | WHAMGAMES proudly presents: One More Fathom!

Oh yeah, just gonna joke the whole thing away once you realize people here won't stand for your sexism?  (wtf)


WHAM

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Ah, yes, I see the name calling is on the menu once more.
I have no idea why you would think I am sexist, so I'll just have to deduce it's some sort of defensive mechanism on your part.
Wrongthinker and anticitizen one. Pending removal to memory hole. | WHAMGAMES proudly presents: One More Fathom!

Ah, yes, I see the name calling is on the menu once more.
I have no idea why you would think I am sexist, so I'll just have to deduce it's some sort of defensive mechanism on your part.
I have spent several paragraphs in my replies for days now explaining why your claims are sexist, as have several other forum members,
and you dare imply it's all "some sort of defensive mechanism" in me? And pointing out what you yourself have written is not name-calling.


BarbWire

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Is this gonna turn into a who gets the last word contest?  Why don't you just bury the hatchet....in each others heads and call it a day.  (laugh)

I have no idea why you would think I am sexist
And how could you, given that you have zero capacity for self-reflection.
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BarbWire

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Sorry to say this Khris, but I get the impression that you really enjoy fanning the flames.  :)

It really amazes me that, with Covid19 still on the rampage, certain people still spend every waking hour
analysing the written word, or other media, to pick up on anything that might cause offence. (i.e sexism,
racism and any other 'ism' you can think of)

All these issues pale into insignificance when you think of a patient, in a hospital bed, gasping for breath
and desperately clinging to life, having to focus all their energy  and willpower on surviving.

Enough of the complaining, Compared to what our forebears had to endure, we have it easy.



Barbwire, this entire thread was started analyzing media, if you don't want to have any form of critical discussion on how media affects people, why partake in this thread at all, and not stick to the forum topics dedicated to Covid if it's more pressing to you?

Also, sexist, racist and homophobic words and media are proven to affect real people's opinions, and make them more acceptable.


Ali

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It really amazes me that, with Covid19 still on the rampage, certain people still spend every waking hour
analysing the written word, or other media, to pick up on anything that might cause offence. (i.e sexism,
racism and any other 'ism' you can think of)

You could use this argument to deflect criticism of just about anything, surely? There's always something worse somewhere, or something that has been worse or could be worse.

I don't want to get off topic, but the idea that Covid 19 exists in a separate universe from racism is particularly strange. Black people, and other ethnic minority groups have been disproportionately affected by Covid 19 in the UK and elsewhere. We had a Conservative MP claim (apparently without evidence) that the Muslim and other ethnic minority communities were largely to blame for spreading the virus. It's not frivolous to be concerned about what you call 'isms,' it can be a matter of life and death.
« Last Edit: 22 Jan 2021, 17:45 by Ali »