Messages

Thanks for the comments!
Yea, this is an interesting subject. I think using monochromatic backgrounds could work, in a practical way, since you can tint all your sprites - this usually needs to be done anyway when walking in diffrent lightet areas.

Its funny when I read the script for the first time I started to imagine that the girl was a lonely ghost in a abandoned orphan - maybe she died there and still whants to play with her friends who long time has grown up and left. Its funny in that way that it come to now when the background seems a little horro-like.
 
Myself likes bright colors, and Im trying something new. Since we have photoshop and other editing applications its so easy to change colors(or anything), so you can try around alot of things.

Whats interesting is why it becomes horror-like and not the sad mood Im really aiming for - Can it be the hard contrast between white and black?(since its so pale everything bright is white and dark is black), can it be the white and but still a little soft-redish fleshtone  which could be a pale skin(corpse death,lifeless). Or just the colors who doesnt has vigor/vitality/life?

You mention it becomes something like a dream, which I think could be a memory - of something that once was a home to many children(Im assuming its closed down, although it wasnt mentioned in script)

In the latest I did yesterday I pushed more brown into it, hoping its more sad(havent posted it yet) - Im going to go out and hunt some references from movies or anything.

Latest - Cleaned-up(alot of artifacts), tweaked.(bad jpg quality though)
I post here, the other page starting to get picture-heavy.
I tried to keep the mood down, to prevent dullness I added accents to the windows - Maybe theyre just a tid too strong right now.

Its hard not to do sunsets, mornings and all those rich and beautiful colors  - weak spot.


::UPDATE::

Worked on the mood, going for blue instead for yellow atmosphere to somehow make it more sad and toned down mood. Other then that mostly tweak and alot of cosmetics. (Its not really that sharp details, just that I applied a sharp since it was so much resize)
Things Im wondering: Does the window take _too_ much attention?
Does the colors feel alright?
Anything else that is distractin? Like the broken windows? Wall textures? etc.

Thinking that its starting too like more scary than sad

::UPDATE:: sorry for the intensive posting.

Colorsketch update:
http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/yabb/index.php?topic=34542.msg460981#msg460981

Last update, I couldnt keep my finger off it.
Unless anyone has something to add I think this will be the final value-composition and Ill start adding colors tomorrow.

I think it looks good Misj, will be fun to see where you take it from here.

Update:
http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/yabb/index.php?topic=34542.msg460981#msg460981

Tweaking and mostly detailing.
I hadnt tried any solutions until todays sit, but I think it was more or less how I tried to solve it, bringing in brighter lights contrasting the window and putting more details around it- not sure if its overdone though, or does it work?

Yea, I decided to go for the more serious/calm mood to fit the background description, and also its a new thing for me and I wanted to test it out. But I do agree that the earlier was much more dynamic and "fun". But Im still trying to have the cartoony look, but a toned down mood.

Misj'

Yea, I was aware of the problem of the sign when I put it down - what went on in my mind was "I need some shape here, I dont have a sign in the background(I thought it was in the description since many had a sign ). It struck me that it doesn make much sense having it turned out by the river - although I dont think its that extreme that the player would be looking at the back, thinking hes entering from the right corner. As for technical application its acting as a interlock with the background.

But its a problem thats pending to get a good solution - same with the window, I havent managed to get the focus there yet. Im think its going to sort out when I go in and put down some detail around it. Or anyone know what the main problem can be? Too contrasty values foreground?

::UPDATE::

Did two more sits on my background, changes:
- change the canvas size, firstly the width to not make it so crowded, Im figuring when including a building you probably want to have scrolling background or just showing a part of the background- I think this because otherwise you will get the viewer far away from the "action", I think the more intimate feels more charming.
- Tweaking, adding, moving
-Tweaking, adding, changing, flipping

The values seems a little bit too split apart right now, I think the darkest value is too far away and probably will play around with it the next sit.
Im also consider to blow the house up even more, to make it closer to the foreground, to move it closer the viewer for same reason mentioned above.

::some comments::
loominous: looking good, as always - only thing I could think of that isnt in my taste is that have something right infront of that beautiful house, I think I would rather have the breathing room right there. I do understand it gives depth to it with the overlapping, maybe if the gate was less complex I wouldnt mind it.

Misj: I would have put the vanishing points further away, but I think it still can work. What I think you should try is the remove the tree in the middle left, its almost splitting the picture in two - I think, even if its a scrolling background, it should be a whole. Maybe only using minor framing for each side of a scrolling background.

About lines, I think atleast for cartoonish the lines should have a little life to them, like a little spring-force in them and rythmical. A straight line would feel static/hard, a saggy line feels very organic but maybe a bit tired - So i think somewhere inbetween is good(depending on the object. If you wanna experiment with this I think a good way is just let the wrist, elbow, shoulder(depending in the lines length) just to its magic, You usually get a natural twist to the lines - you could almost think as if its bend at a third of the line. Just try to keep it loose.

I know atleast in my backgrounds, if you flip them you can see that its very much from the wrist as the whole composition starts to lean to the left - its a funny thing that I never see this when its in the "right" direction. Could also be that we read from right to left that we more natural follows the lines as they work its way to the right, but gets resistence when they start leaning to the left. Who know? not me atleast

I think its good that you practice perspective though, you will probably have use for it - but consider it a tool - I think its ok to be off perspective aslong its not annoying

Dunno if it made much sense, someone is tired..

::UPDATE::

Moved house closer, tweaked, added.
The values hasnt been fixed though, I want a little more sepperation in them - but not go away from a gloomy mood.

::UPDATE::


::COLOR::
Click for bigger:

Those are the color-sketches so far, I don't want to go too lively - only with a "string of hope" and try to keep it toned down. Any comments so far? which one do you think works best and why? Personally I think the first would tell the story best, but at the same time it looks the most boring I think - maybe if I could squish in a couple of weak accents .

Nice too see activity here again, hopefully Ill have some freetime now.

So far:

Not that far into it, but mainly working with composition and trying to get it working.
Right now Im thinking of extending the format to widescreen, the house just makes this format boring right now and is almost the same kind of square. Im also thinking of bringing the camera closer to the house, and also moving up the house as the walking area is pretty low now, with all the objects - I think it feels uncomfortable and I think it should be brought up to at least a third.

Haven't gone through the posted work yet, but will try to do that to soon.

updated with thumbnails.
Link: http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/yabb/index.php?topic=34542.msg451716#msg451716

First of all, it hit me this is really a big topic and I dont have too much time free right now. But Ill try to fill in stuff as it goes, but for now Ill try to cover the valuesketch since I dont want to keep you waiting.

The main goal, that I belive, with your composition is to communicate your intentions - the composition should help you with that(So should everything ofcourse, colors, lines, etc). But one thing that is good besides that is to keep your picture working as a whole - having a strong unity, even if you're trying to communicate something sepperated. The composition keeps the viewer in your picture, leads him around it, shows him where the interesting part of it is.

Values is a part where you can keep the unity strong and when done the colors becomes "easy", So Ill start with that for now:

.~::[ VALUES ]::~.

Lets use one of my favorites from Bill Tiller, its from Monkey Island 3.
All colors has a value, many prefer to do valuesketches/studies first since colors are very tricky when it comes to see its real value.
Then why is it important to know its value? I think its important to keep the pictures unity, and you dont want to have 10 diffrent values in it which make it very busy and it somewhat loses its unity.
Lets take a look at Bill Tillers backgrounds values

::ORIGINAL VALUES::

You can see(or so I belive) that it has 3 main values(light, middle,dark), this can also be seen in the sketches from loominous topic-picture above. I think many pictures can be generalized into 3-5 values which is enough. I belive the more values you introduce above that the more the picture loses the unity. With that said I dont say I dont think you actually cant have 10 values, you probably can, but what I mean is the main values. There will ofcourse be variations of the mainvalue, but they should read as the mainvalue.

::NO VARIATION::

Above I tried to destroy the lovely variation the values had, it was spread around the picture making it interesting and not isolating the values to corners and objects(trying to illustrade that in the above sketch)
This also make the picture very rythmical, which is good in these sort of mood. Make it less rythmical and you might get a little more serious/stiff/sad mood, like its waiting for something to happen - but its up every person himself to judge that - that was just my experience.

::MESSY/MANY VALUES::

Here is an example when too many mainvalues comes in, and is spread badly in the picture.
The unity is broken and the rythm is broken. This I think should be avoided.

-------------------------------------

Some things you can have in mind is that if you want a object to have a specific color, like brightest purest red - the value might be darker then you think. Above you see the colorwheel and the values next to it - You can generalize and say the yellow is the brightest value and from there the values darkens.

-------------------------------------------------------------
In practice:
Choose 3 values when you start working, try to stick with them, and make a nice variation. Try to not have the values too equal in proportions, test having the darker value dominate, or the middle etc. Try to increase the overall brightness of them, lower them - they bring diffrent moods(this can wait to when you have a color layer above)

I would have made a walkthru of this if I had time, but I really hope this makes sense anyway(you can also google or youtube to get more information) - if not we are here to help eachother. I realise the examples can be better, but Im trying with the time I have to make it as clear as possible - and also the limit is my own skill ofcourse. There is like I said more to composition, and anyone is free to comment.

(loominous, you wasnt online so I hope this is ok.)

What rules?(I always ask then when someone mention "rules")
As far as the general proportion of the grown human, Im not sure if I missunderstod what you meant?
I drew a picture based on how I think you meant(but can be a missunderstanding, like I said).


While it looks great for a cartoon character, you mentioned the proportions of humans.
Myself prefer 7½ heads figure(example on the rightside of picture), while some likes 8head more.
If you really want to know the general proportions of human, google or try to get some good reference, I did this freehand and didnt actually recheck if it was right - so it was not to be used as and good example.

Cartoons, anything goes! it looks good if it looks good.

Another update, house.

Nice sketches Jburger and Dnuma, and good you could join in.

To give my view on interesting a shape.
I think a unpredictable shape is most interesting, a symtric-shape is imo most uninteresting. Its predictable!

I think more riggid and "stiff" shapes has its place too, like in a more serious mood this could help to enhance the that.
For a intersting shape I think irregularity is needed - variation. The shape can have some of its edges "going/pushing/wedging" into the negative space(the space around it).
Its like theyre interlocking. And even these shapes should have some variation and not the same size so they become very repeative.
Ill try to illustrate the diffrence between a irregular and more rigid/predictable shape here(note these are just abstract shape), nothing fance but should show what I mean:


As you clearly can see here so will the more interesting shape make you hapy and your tounge will stick out and make you look like a silly(silly is good). If you have a predictable shape it will make you grow some beard and also make your face melt.

You can see the negative and filled shape, theyre playing with eachother - sharing and taking space.
You can make it have as much variation as you can imagine, both direction of every line, shape. Size, length, round, straight etc.
The more, the more interesting it becomes.
I think is why study and sketching so you have the it ready to be put down anywhere on any shape to make it looks good. This goes for composition later on too.

If anyone are questioning this, feel free to start discussing and ask me - or even challange me.

update, Ill try to give some comments tonight when I got some free time.

Thanks Jens!
I dont like any of them, its just to experiment with the design so I can design the house freely when it actually comes down to composition - I dont see any reason to lock myself to anything yet.
These designs  - asfar as for me - isnt to just be put over to the background - but to broaden my vocalubary and knowing the objects that I _might_ have in the background in some form. I dont know yet what I might _need_ in my picture since its not only about what I _want_ in my picture.

But like I said I like the top one most, but its ofcourse not final, it was just experimenting with all kinds of stuff (like wines growing around and grabbing the house, holding it down).

I see many people post thier reference, but no sketches. The reference isnt really for just copying straight off, but you can learn a great deal of just investigate it by drawing it - understanding what it actually looks like.
How would you else be able to rotate the object if you need it to be rotated in the composition, if you dont know what its actually is your're drawing? When they're in your register you can start the creativity flow and not be bound to reference images - While theyre great to have and inspire you, checking details later on, correction.

The style itself comes by itself when you start drawing freely and not copying straight off.

Dunno how much sense it made, I guess my point is: Start sketching people and show us some cookies

Sketches for now, some are from reference, some are from imagination. Going to walk out myself and try to get some good nature sketches, having a hard time to get any good from photos.
Still thinking about house design, but I dont think I will settle any until it actually comes down to the composition - but I have some ideas that I want in to the picture.

click for bigger

::UPDATE 19th May::


Purely the house design, I know there is a tendency that all have the same basic shapes (small box on left vs big on right), but this was based on another sketch which I wanted to explore further, next time Ill work on a new design.
The shapes can ofcourse be more interesting with help of other things, like boards, trees growing, and other stuff adding to it - but not a concern right now.

:: UPDATE::


:: UPDATE 28th::

Did two thumbsketches, but since time is little it the background suffers. I think the left can be worked on but the right is not good at all. With photoshop its easy to go in and experiment, but its good to get ideas out without going into details and starting tweaking everything. Where is everybody else?

[Idea:]

Idea: Loominous5 Traveler3
Atmosphere: JBurger4 Loominous4
Design: Loominous5 Traveler2 Jburger1
Composition: Loominous7 Jburger1
Functionality: JBurger5 Loominous3
Technique: Loominous7 Jburger1

None-category votes: Loominous3 Jburger3

TOTAL:
Loominous 33
Jburger 15
Traveler 5

Congratz to Loominous, and good work to all who took a part of this.

Take it away Loominous!

Can people try to tell who they vote on and in which category, it helps both the participants and me counting the votes - I can show who got most votes in each category.
Thanks!

[Idea]

Voting started!

One vote in each category:

Idea - The underlying idea to the background. Doesn't
necessarily have to coincide perfectly with the theme of the
week, just strike you as interesting/amusing/inspiring; a place
you'd really enjoy visiting within a game.

Atmosphere - How well the image manages to evoke a certain feeling or mood.

Design - How well the elements in the image are designed,
such as landscapes, buildings, decorations, clouds, doorknobs,
etc.

Composition - How well the elements in the image work
together/are positioned in relation to each other.

Functionality - How well it would work when adding sprites,
including appropriate walking distances, a good angle for
character sprites, clever walkway solutions, easily understood
exits, etc.

Technique - How well the ideas are executed in form of
rendering.

Voting will last 48 Hours, 8th around 23.59(gmt+1).

ops, another 24h asked for, lets vote around 6th 23:00 (gmt+1)

Let it be the last one guys.

extended for another 24h, voting the 5th at 23:59.