Messages

Yes I agree about the church statement. I said it so, so you can see that following the church is not the same as believing in Him.

Yes, the bible was writen by humans, who may wrote errors in it. So what? You don't have to even know about the bible to believe in the existence of God.

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Wise advise on how to deal with 'the bible":

1. Don't read the bible, ever! Just put the little pieces of knowledge you have in your memory together to get your very own "biblical text". This is a profound basis for arguing about how this book makes no sense at all.

2. Take presumptions for facts. Believe everything anybody tells you about the bible, as long as it fits your image that it's been written by a bunch of brainamputated monkeys on dope. The most absurd interpretation of the text is always the best one to go with.

3. Assume you already know everything about the bible there is to know. You will not be surprised to hear that the primary objective in a conversation should always be to not getting a potentially wrong view corrected. There is no truth, there only is your truth.

4. If you're not very familiar with the bible that's no problem. Just make sure to let everyone know how much of a "believer" you are (whatever it is you believe). Remember, you have all the answer to all questions, you just need to think hard enough.

Just to be clear, were you talking to Jim here?  Because with his statements about the ten commandments without even knowing that killing was one of them, and his statements that people tell him he can heal via prayer only if he gets paid to do so, and other such statements about god and the bible that I doubt you would agree with, it sounded like these applied (with exaggeration, obviously) to him.

And since atheist vs believer always desintigrates as it has into a boring see-saw, I would much rather hear you set Jim right on his beliefs and Jim set you right on yours.

Yes, paying is obligatory to me.
That doesn't mean that it's a must for other people who can pray to heal, also.

I personaly wish that this is not the case, and that I can do this for free.
As I stated, the rules I follow when doing prayer healing are the ones that were given to me while I was granted the licence to do prayer healing. If I choose to do it for free, I fear that would nullify my licence, so I would not do it.

So don't think that are people who can do healing via prayer are the same as me, or are ruled by the same rules as me.

On another note, trying to heal somebody who doesn't aprove of your meddling will lead to illnes on your part, from my personal expirience.

Prayer healing works only if the man who prays to God is a true believer. True belief is not me saying: "yeah, there is God", or such, but is a matter of a much bigger importance.

Yes, I called God to help me many times and He helped me every time. I don't believe in coindence, and who ever believes in it doesn't know enough.

Praying for healing is asking God for the release of sins. Exactly, -...forgive us for our depts, as we forgive the ones who are in depted to us...-, or however the wording in english prayer is, (Our father, who art in heaven...)

A bullet is not a sin.

There are people who can remove it from a body, but I cannot do it, as that is not a matter of faith/belief, but something else which I don't have (I hope I will some day). I know a man who can do it, though.

The reasearch is wrong because it tried to make prayer healing work, using people who are not believers, to pray.

I believe in God, and if a man orders a crusade, he might believe in Him, too. But if he knows that it will mean lives, he obviously doesn't care much about the: ''thou shall not kill'' comandment.

And, no, I wouldn't go kill other people if a man orders me to do it. So you can say that I don't follow that type of Christianity.

But for reference, I don't go to the church very often (only weddings and the like), I haven't read the bible, and I believe that there are a very substantial portion of fags/gays/homosexuals in the clergy.

So you may consider me a skeptic in the church also.

But, church aside, I believe in God and have proof that He exists, and I have no proof that unicorns exist. So why wouldn't believe in God?
Why would I listen to a priest telling me when to pray, when I know that myself?

I don't say that the church is all bad, there must be some good people in there, too. But why do some people claim that God is bs, because the man (eg. a priest) who tried to make them believe it, was full of bs himself, because he doesn't know what belif means?

Because if you reallt believe that  God created a man, something like 5,000 years ago, from mud, and then He took a rib from him and made a woman and from those two all the human race came is not worthy to go on discussing with you.

So for example, if what I believe is not what you believe, my beliefs are not good enough to consider? Sure Adolf, we are lesser beings, here's a gun so you can shoot me, after I kneel, so you don't get a big stain on your carpet.

Why would you like to know what I believe?

Yeah, like, Adam was perfect, before he -choose- not to be.
So He created the perfect man, and gave him te right to choose, and the man chose to be less. So don't blame God for the things man choses to do.
If God wanted 'robots' He would have created them.

Yes, I said "you", meaning a generic you...or could I wrote that more clearly so you wouldn't get confused. Sorry.

Well...if I remember corectly, God gave the ten commandements because He was asked to give them, but He considered killing (Cain & Abel story), wrong, and they didn't have the commandements.

So the Gods "ethical code" of what's good and what's bad goes back very far. Any human who gains enough personal power, can realise that the things that He considers good are truthfull, because He's rules correspond with the way things actually work.

Anyone who makes an ethical code of what is right and what is wrong, and if that code doesn't follow the rules of God, is wrong.

Personal power? But Jim, what is that? =D

That would be a long explanation, but for this purpose...it's a humans understanding of how things work without thinking about it.

So Nacho, He didn't have to give them to us, but we asked Him to give them to us, so He did.

Actually doctor, it's you!

Smashed to a pulp against this nice beige wall you have in this office.

Those commandments - without putting them into context and relating them to a certain situation - are as stupid as trying to divide mankind/life into "good" and "evil".

If a guy would have shot Hitler, would that be an evil action? If a poor homless guy would steal some bread from the bakery to survive - would that be a reason to throw him in hell after he passed away in winter?

I have my own standards and morals and that is much smarter then following some lines written thousands of years ago...

Yeah, killing Hitler would be a sin, and stealing also.
But why would you try to convince Hitler that he's wrong and why would you ask for bread when it's easier to kill and steal?
The path to heaven is not easy. I hope you get the sarcastic point here.

I apologise for the double post.

God made the ten commandments so that people who didn't realize what a bad thing to do is, don't make mistakes before they know that they are mistakes.

Wait, you are saying that there was no ethical code telling what the Ten Commandments tell before they were given to Moses?

False. They were... And some of them were much rich and extense than the ten commandments...

That's  why we need a God? To give us something we managed to get without his help? man... The more I know about that "God", the more convinced I am that he is a truly incompetent.

Nacho, the commandments are things you can realise as being good without reading/knowing about/have been told about them. If you don't realize what's good for you yet, you can read them and follow them untill you do.

Like eg. a flight manual, describing procedures for a stall. You can read the manual and do what it says and come out of it alive, or you can survive many stalls untill you figure out the answer yourself.

Nice to believers...
What is nice, and what are believers to you?

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Hahahaha, you all make me laugh =D
Anyone can learn why going against the ten commandments is wrong, on their own, without having to read/listen to them.
God made the ten commandments so that people who didn't realize what a bad thing to do is, don't make mistakes before they know that they are mistakes.

As for terrorists and the Nazi and their ilk, killing people is forbidden, whatever excuse you use to justify it.
I would only approve of killing another man, if he is trying to kill me and I have no other options.

God sends devils to do bad things, and that doesn't mean that He is evil. If He sends a devil to do his bidding that means He has a good reason to do it. Like punishing the sinfull. And if you think that God Edit: -doesn't rule- above all, including Lucifer and his minions, you're wrong. There is not a single thing that He can not do. And don't confuse a man's choice with an act from God here.

...Yeah, but I prayed to God to help me the other day, and He did, but I doubt papa smurf could do it.
That's all the proof I need of His existence.
He couldn't help me if He doesn't exist now, could He?

Knowledge is available, at a price.

If you want to know you need to go learn.
You can't get much without work.

If you have an epiphany that means that you gained some knowledge. That's a really good thing.

Yes, allpowerfull means just that, there is no one above God. But if He, let's say, kills a man, and says that others shouldn't do it, I would do what He tells me, and not do what He does.

Yeah, but likely is not the truth allways, and this is a big world, so the possibilities are vast.

Yes, I know what Occam's razor is. But not having all the facts will result in an incorrect answer, even using the same method.
Say that you see a small crater in the earth. Occam's razor suggests that it was a small meteor or a hand granade that made it. But it could be a much more complicated solution to its existence, also (eg. a child built it using a plastic toy showel while looking at a picture from Moons surface).

Yeah, but unicorns are fictional and cannot be seen. God's can be seen. Every man can do it, but it requires some practice and/or luck.

That's the spirit Akatosh! =D

Did you mark her love grove?

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Jim Reed:
Come on, you know exactly what Nacho meant when he said the believers created the supernatural being.
But, well, how do I put this, do you believe that there's an actual devil, as in, a conscious (supernatural) being devoted to eventually fight a war against God's army...?

Yeah, I know what he said. I don't know what he meant.

As for the devil...do you really want to know? Should I even bother to explain, when I doubt that your scientific self-importance will permit you to consider the fact that it doesn't know shit?
I haven't met Lucifer himself, but I've met some minions of his in person (5 times that I remember, after I became aware of their existence, and a few times I didn't yet know what it was).
It isn't a pleasant expirience.

Unless it's the tiny creations who created the supernatural Being, of course!

So let me get this straight, if I created God by believing in Him, I could believe in unicorns and create them too?