Messages

Bingo bango... Frisby.

Me thinks you avoid my main questions...

1.  How do you rehabilitate someone.
2.  If they are rehab'ed, how do you know they are ready to be released back into society?

If you are inhumane to criminals though, then you aren't much better than they are.

I'm sorry, but in my opinion violent criminals are sub-human.  They gave up any claim for human rights when they violated the rights of another human.  We don't have the right to kill them, and my idea of prisons is designed only to let them survive, nothing more.

I don't see how a child molestor has the right to a second chance.  He has abused the child on purpose, not by accident or mistake.  Personally, I believe they should be locked up for the *rest* of their lives, not just the 25 year maximum or whatever it is.  Same goes for rapist and murderers.

Also, drunk drivers who kill be should be tried for murder.  People who speed, too.  They know what they are doing, and if they don't, they shouldn't be driving in the first place.

Also, slightly off topic...

Iqu, you're a sad, sad man. Revenge is for children.

and...

Kant was a dirty deontologist f*ck.

Ooh, naming calling and swearing... maturity, ahoy.


I'm going to be netless for a week, starting in about two hours.  I'd like to continue this discussion, as I am genuinely interested in your ideas.  I may not agree with them, but that doesn't mean I won't listen to them.  If you do want to continue it send me a PM thru the boards, some time in the week.

Due to some incredible balls-up by someone working for the electoral roll in the uk, I am legally registered to vote under the name "Iqu".

Also, due to a horrendously bad mispronounciation of my name by a science teacher, my friends now know me as "Spleen" in real life.  Quite apt really, as I have a champion immune system.

Hugs
Iqu

I cut myself one a week thru alcohol related accidents.
I've been hit by a milk float.
I've been told I might have brain damage.
I've been beaten up by a gang.
I've been stabbed in the throat, with a just-sharpened pencil.
I broke a tooth on a Burger King Whopper in LAX airport.
I've put a cigarette out on my arm (proving a point).
I swallowed a large coin, and it's still stuck... I revolves once a month causing much pain.
My knee kinda dislocates itself from time to time.
I have daily nosebleeds.

I'm sure there's more but the brain damage is kicking in again.

And the current prison systems are so damn cheap...

My proposed system is very cost effective.

And you'd be happy telling the child of murder victim that they'll never see they're parents because it would have cost a bit more at tax time?

Would you be happy telling them;
"Sorry, rehab don't work for everyone.  Pisser, huh?".

"One research project looked at 61 previous studies of sexual recidivism using a 4-5 year follow up period. This research on sex offenders found that 13.4% recidivated with a sexual offence, 12.2% recidivated with a non-sexual, violent offence and 36.6% recidivated with any other offence".
Hanson, R.K. (1997). "Predictors of sex offence recidivism." Research Summary. Ottawa: Solicitor General Canada.

"A long term follow-up study of child molesters in Canada found that 42% were reconvicted of sexual or violent crime during the 15-30 year follow-up period.

In addition, the long-term follow-up study (15-30 years) of child molesters showed that the average recidivism rate for this group of offenders is actually lower than the average recidivism rate for non-sexual offenders (61% versus 83.2% respectively for any new conviction)".
Hanson, R.K. (1996). "Child molester recidivism." Research Summary. Ottawa: Solicitor General Canada.

Yes, it would involve being released. And who are you to say that once someone has broken a rule, they are completely untrustworthy and worthless as a human being.

Who are you to say everyone can be rehab'ed.  And again I ask, how do you know and can prove if they are or not?

You're a sadistic bastard. I find it hard to believe you would condone treating anyone like that.

Hmm... murderers, rapists, child molestors?  What do they deserve?  A medal?

I also never claimed punishment was self-righteous. I just claimed it was for children.

The thing is, to punish someone implies moral righteousness, which is a load of crap.

Self-righteous, morally righteous, hmpf, I'll give you that one.

Look at people who are put into solitary confinement, which is much like the prisons you describe. If harsher penalties worked, then no-one would ever be put into solitary confinement. That fact that people are put into solitary though, shows that it is ineffective in stopping problem behaviour.

What harsher penalties?  The prisoners go into solitary after they've committed a crime inside.

You propose prisons that are not likely to be any more effective than current ones. Not only that, your proposed harsher prisons are inhumane.

1. My prisons would be less expensive, and more of a threat again (re)offending.
2. What's humane about rape and kiddie fiddling?

Upgraded surveilance gear.  Sure, the idea's sound, but the practicality of it is ridiculous.  It would cost far too much.

Back to the rehab thing again, huh?  One of my main points is that Rehabilitation doesn't work, unless they want to change.  Most criminals don't want to change, most don't feel remorse, most don't even think what they have done is wrong.  Also, how do you know when and if someone is rehabilitated?

How can you say that "you can always make up for wrongs, even if it's only preventing others from making the same mistakes"?.  What possible way is there for a killer to make it up,  and wouldn't it involve being released back into society?

I'm not saying that by making prisons "just a little worse" will make them more effective.  I agree the prison system is far too inadequate.  What I'm saying is make them a *lot* worse.  Enough to survive, infact (see previous post).  I suggest a prison system where criminals are genuinely scared of the consequences.

As to your last point.  Yes, I've read the whole thread.  I checked again, and all I can see from your previous posts is:

1. You think punishment is crap and self-righteous.
2. Rehabilitation, whether it works or not, is the answer.

How do you suggest rehab prevents someone from committing a crime, someone who hasn't committed one before?  If you seriously believe rehab can cut crime, then you are a very naive person.

Like CJ said, it's the "threat" of punishment.  With much harsher prisons, more people will not want to commit a crime due to the fear of the consequences.

Surveilance Bracelets.  These tell you where a person is.  They can still commit a crime, you just have the proof of where they were after the fact.

Humane removal from society where the person can be taught why what they did was wrong...  Could you explain this in more detail, please.

The upmost thing...  I was not trying to twist your words, and I apologise if it seemed that way.  It's just that rapists, killers and paedophiles *can't* fix what they've done, to any extent.

Punishment.  It just doesn't work at the moment, nor does rehab.  The only way to fix this is to improve them, but rehab doesn't work unless the person wants to change, and even then there's no actual proof (s)he's different.

You say that you need better policing.  The police can only catch you after you have done something.  If convicted, you enter a inadequate prison system.  This is not enough of a deterrent to stop people commit the crimes.

You seem to dislike punishment as a whole.  What would you suggest, instead of punishing someone, in order to prevent people committing crimes?

Hey

Anything I knock up that I can't use is now going in my "Wowser, Free Stuff..." box.

Hugs
Iqu

Um, I didn't "defending yourself".  Besides, hitting back is not a defence, it's retaliation.  Blocking and running is defending yourself.

You'd want this rapist to "stop doing it".  How d'you suggest that happen?  A stern talking to is just not going to cut it.

"Do their upmost to reverse the damage they've already done".  The only way to do this is to go back in time, and stop it from happening.  This can't be done.  No amount of apologising will fix the emotional scars left on the victim.

Ergo, punishment.  Knowing that the rapist is in prison for the crime is some comfort to them.  However, most are living in fear of the day they get out.  What guarantees are they given that they work rape again? None.  That's what's wrong with the prison system, in the western world.

Not everyone can be happy, peaceful people.  It takes something that's uncivilised and barbaric to scare the bad element away from crime.  If I could click my fingers and make the world a better place I would, but the criminals would still be here, and it wouldn't take long to bring it back to the mess we currently have.

Iqu, you're a sad, sad man. Revenge is for children.

Sure, revenge is somewhat childish.  If someone punches you in the face, do you thank them for it? or punch them back?  If someone raped your mother or your sister, would you pat them on the back?  No, you want them to suffer, too.

Right, time for Iqu to stick his oar in, as this is something Iqu feels very strongly about (and there aren't many things).

Most of you will disagree with my opinions, I understand that, I want you to understand these are my genuine feelings on the subject.  Not some random post that's trying to be argumentative or arrogant.  With that disclaimer in place, I shall begin...

Prisons and the whole prison system we have is wrong.  I whole-heartedly agree with punishment, but the prisons we have in the so called "civilised" world are inadequate forms of punishment.

My friend was homeless over Christmas, he was cold and hungry and had no where to go.  He decided to smash a bank window, and then report it to the police.  His result was spending a night in a warm cell and getting free food.

This in itself, isn't to bad.  But it led to him vandalising other things, and ended up with him being sent to prison for three months.  He came out healthier, as he'd been eating properly for a change... but he was still on drugs, which were easier to get on the inside, and now had no fear of punishment.  Now he can break the law and he knows he can have a place to stay.  Where's the deterrent in that?

The prison system according to Iqu is:
1. Your cell in 3ft x 3ft x 6ft.
2. There are no windows.
3. There is a shower head above you.
4. There is a drain below you.
5. There is a hole in the door which can be opened to pass in food.
6. The food consists of one cup of brown rice, per day.
7. You are naked.
8. There is no toilet (see no. 3 and 4)
9. No visitors, except lawyer.
10. There amount of time you spend inside depends on the crime you commit.

That's it.  Much like Iraq under Saddam's control, yes.  However, Saddam was imprisoning innocent people.

I admit, some people may be innocent, that's inevitable.  If the wrong person is imprisoned they will receive a cash settlement, based on the amount of time spent in the cell.  This will be payed for by the money the prison system saves compared with the current system.

Death penalty.  Out-lawed.  If someone has commited a crime worthy of the death penalty, then surely they've commited a crime worthy of suffering for?  Supposing someone raped and killed your children.  Would you want them to (a) Die? or (b) Suffer for the rest of their life?  I know which I'd pick.

Yea, revenge.  But isn't that what most people want in a punishment?  Someone who's being raped doesn't want the guy to be "rehabilitated", and the let go a few years later.  If that happens, they're terrified.  Same with someone who's lost a loved one, they don't want the person to walk around free.

Rehabilitation.  This just doesn't work.  Most criminals arent rehabilitated, they just take some time off while they're inside.  I'm not saying that they *can't* be rehab'ed.  Some of them genuinely change.  What I'm saying is; "You can't force them to change, only help them if *they want* to change".

Morals.  Talking about morals is a joke.  You see, you may have a really good set of morals, but that doesn't mean the world shares it.  In truth, I don't share the same set of morals as my parents, according to my dad; Racism is ok, drugs are not.  I'm the opposite.  So if two people that closely linked can differ, think what a paedophile's morals are and compare them to your own.

That's why we have the moral majority, you say.  Well yea, but the moral majority is usually based on religion or politics, not on social ethics, not on what is right and wrong.

The only way round this problem is to draw up a brand new set of laws, which is voted on by everyone, any colour and any sex.  This new set of laws should say two things:

1. Description of the crime.
2. Penalty for committing it.

A simple, long list of crimes with the amount of time spent in prison, and if need be, the amount of monetary reparations paid to the victim(s).

With this in place, as well as prison-the-Iqu-way, I can only see the crime rate going down, as people will be genuinely scared of the punishment.  At the moment, getting caught for something doesn't scare me or the people I know, and it's only my personal morals stopping my from breaking the law very often.

Thankfully, I haven't committed anything serious, yet... but they way things are, I wouldn't rule it out.

Hugs
Iqu

Oh, yea.  Suicide/drugs would be legal.  Suicide only you die.  Drugs:  You would have to go to a doctor and pharmacist, and request them.

1. standard shirt
2. looks kinda grandad, collarless
3. looks blouse-y
4. i'm not to sure about...

Thing is tho, they all look like she's standing behind a cardboard cut-out, they need some depth to them...
and maybe a widening of all of the collars, they look a little tight.

Hugs
Iqu

Mmm... Jagged Alliance 2...

If only my CD drive worked...

Kresha.

Thank heavens some one else pic-posted, I was starting to think I'd imagined this whole thread...

* Iqu likes Archangel's pic, for the cutesy-stoner of the wolf...

Hugs
Iqu

"Lump City (part one)" - when satan has ski to work

In reality...  (kinda...)  
Early 2004.

Um...
Why is it there twice?

(Downloading)...

And why is your avatar the screenshot?

Outbreak

STR:   2
(hooked up to life support machine, and pumped full of steroids)
INT:   3
(almost brain dead, but able work out how to create a bourbon drip)
WIS:   1  
(my T-shirt is emblazoned with some witty yet philosophical comment...  and has drool/crumbs motif).
DEX:   4  
(the new heart is working a treat, but I'm on my fourth kidney)
MANNA:  8  (doctors have been saying "it's a Miracle he's lasted this long" for ages).

(Charisma: Unknown.  I can't get the nurses to respond with anything other than:
"Now, Mr Iqu, you know you're not supposed to...  Eek, get you hands off me you lecherous, old creep...  and you can put that away right, now").

Amount of Children:
4, all of which are in therapy.

Married:
Divorced, and currently being sued.

Time spent defending country:
12 minutes (beaten up in bar after misunderstanding with urinal).

Class: 70 per cent proof.

6 thru 10
(yea, I have too much time on my hands).


Speaks for it's self, really.


I couldn't resist "Ride a Cock-Horse to Banbury Cross"... upon reading, I found it had nothing to do with beastiality.


Woohoo, nudity.  In context, too.  I think.
* Iqu starts singing "It's fun to stay at the..." with the arm movements, too.


Hey diddle diddle, the cat a the fiddle, the cow jumped over the moon;
And it would seem Farmer Giles has been smoking his "special crop" again.


Peter Piper picked a peck of chilli peppers;
A peck of chilli peppers Peter Piper picked.
If Peter Piper picked a peck of chilli peppers,
Where's the peck of chilli peppers Peter Piper picked?

Hugs
Iqu

(Kinda stuck for ideas at the moment... Maybe more, maybe not).

Behold and tremble... Five.

Jack Sprat
Could eat no fat,
His wife could eat no lean;
And so,
Betwixt them both,
They licked the platter clean.