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Yes, Elektroshokker's.  Looks like he logged in here not too long ago, so a PM might get his attention 

Though, if I recall, it used an old GTK or something and may need to be rewritten anyway.  I suppose we could bung it out in Python and use iniparse & PyGtk to make it pretty.

I'm up for programming a new config tool if needed. Is there a preference of language and widget toolkit? Because Python and wxWidgets would certainly get it done fast, but creates the requirement of python and wxPython to be installed. If we only want to use it for Linux then most distros appear to come with Python so that's not much of an issue, and I suppose if a dev REALLY wanted to idiot proof it they could prebundle wxPython, but that may be more of a hassle than wanted.

Of course, I'm going to wait around a wee while to see if Elektroshokker is around and can throw the code for his tool at us.

• Characters: this was another area where I felt that much improvement was needed. Beyond the living room exposition dump, we learn nothing about these characters that might actually make us care about them. There doesn't really seem to be any believable development as the story goes on and many of the actions taken by them are illogical and unrealistic.

I will throw in what is both a praise and a criticism of the game related to this. One of the things I wished there was more of was the characters interacting more than just one-on-one with Trilby. One of the better elements of the living room exposition dump was the character's interjecting with each other. It showed what the characters thought of each other, and it also made them feel a little less like the artificial NPC that only does things on player prompt. This element of the game mostly disappears after that, and they go back to being driven almost only by player-prompt. But those interjections were a nice touch while they were there.

I think if there was more inter-NPC interaction, it would not only make them feel like real people but the change in character interactions would also really help show some paranoia setting in when Phil decides he doesn't trust anyone anymore.

I've never really enjoyed games with multiple-endings I've played, but I certainly get a bunch of reasons why they try.

There are two obvious player desires they can fulfill: Curiosity and Self-expression. The first one is quite obvious to understand: Wanting to see what would've happened under certain circumstances. The second one is actually a whole reason why some people play certain games; they want to express their own self or at least some fantasy of theirs in a fictional character. This is basically why WRPGs sell at all, and is the fundamental difference between WRPGs and JRPGS, and really why they're too separate thematic genres that share mechanics. But a key part of this self-expression is the player wanting to feel like their choices mean something or just doing things they want to. Remember that one NPC you just wanted to murder so you could stop having to deal with them, but the game wouldn't let you? Those moments lead to players wanting to express their own will and opinion upon the game world itself. Self-expression is also why RPGs can be quite irritatingly shallow and self-glorifying experiences; people want to play their own fantasy, and usually that fantasy will be an empowerment fantasy, so RPGs end up in the scenario where usually, your character can be amazing at everything and you slowly progress towards becoming basically a god.

Another really good usage is that if you're running a game where there is a theme of choice, particularly having to make hard choices. Then because games are best as narrative simulation rather than narrative depiction, it makes sense to make the player make tough decisions. ( I always hated "Be Gandhi or be Hitler" mechanics, there needs to be more "Pick what you think is the lesser of two evils" mechanics )

Another element that requires a lot of nonlinearity is that it can create a sense of a truly organic world. Where you can do anything (within some reasonable bounds), rather than have everything be an exactly picked sequence of events.

So really, the major reasons I can think for including multiple plot tangents are: curiosity, self-expression, thematic interest, or immersion.

However, I hate multiple endings on their own. I don't think just the ending changing is good for any of these elements. I think if you want to do any of these, the game should change quite extremely and go on very very different tangents from many different points in the plot, and the difference is apparent before the very end. It also greatly improves replayability if the game has entirely different plot points happen. But this requires a lot of effort to create a truly variant story.

But I agree, I'm not really a fan of using multiple endings to make one ending better than all the others. They should mostly just be different, but they can also be "better" of "worse" in different kinds of ways. I like the idea of there not being a single ending where you can get everything you want, you have to make sacrifices. Then don't tell or imply the player made a "bad" choice. Give them both the benefits of their choice, and the downsides, and let them evaluate if they're happy with the outcome. Using it to create "proper" endings just seems like an artificial way to draw out the game experience by trying to get them to play it again.

[SO WHAT'S ALL THIS THEN?:]

(To the mods, I have no idea if this belonged here or in the Critics Lounge, which is technically about suggestion hunting, if you feel it would be more appropriately placed there, feel free to move it.)

SO WHAT'S ALL THIS THEN?:

Basically, I feel for a community about creating Adventure games, there is not a lot of discussion about adventure games, what elements about them are good or bad, and not just blanket statements like "the story was good" but rather what about the story was good, and also what about it could have done with improving. And this is the kind of thing I personally am really interested in. I don't know if anyone else out there is interested but I hope there's a few, so I thought I'd try an experiment. I would start a thread, nitpicking a game from AGS History, not because I want a place to voice my own opinions but because I want to hear people's opinions. I want people to point out things I had not thought of, or argue against my critiques or praise, or other people's critiques or praise. Any kind of interesting discussion about what is bad or good about these games. If it got some discussion, I would start another one later on for a different game and keep going, and start a series of nitpick threads. And maybe if it was popular enough, others would start their own threads in time. Really, I don't have much to lose (other than looking like some pretentious bastard who writes too much about video games).

So if this interests you, please:

• Make sure you've played the game, and can remember enough about it.

• Read other people's posts, or at least their TL;DRs and decide if you should read the whole post.

• Write your own post, sharing your own praises and critiques, and responding to other posts. And if it's a bit long, provide a TL;DR. Remember, you don't have to comprehensively analyze the game, just pick a few things you want to talk about.

As much as I'd prefer people wanting to talk about the game, if you find this stuff interesting but don't feel like you have anything contribute, feel free to mention that you're interested in reading stuff like this, so I can get an idea of how many people in the community value these kinds of discussions. But enough about that, it's time to nitpick.

5 DAYS A NITPICKER:



So for the first nitpick I decided to go with what is quite possibly a corner-stone adventure game of the community that seemingly everyone has played and should hopefully have an opinion on: 5 Days a Stranger. If it's been a long time since you've  played the game or you haven't played it (where have you been?) you can acquire it here and I strongly recommend playing it yourself before reading the rest of this post, as this could get spoilery.

EDIT: I decided that I should consider finding a Lets Play for those that played the game years ago and don't quite remember everything, but can't be bothered replaying it all. I would prefer videos without commentary, but I'm not likely to find them. So here's part one for an LP by someone called DeceasedCrab, I have no idea if he's annoying or not: 5 Days LP Part 1

NARRATIVE, SMARRATIVE:

One of the things 5 Days appears to be trying as horror fiction is playing with the idea of paranoia in a group. However, in 5 Days I never remember suspecting anyone in the group, possibly because it implies supernatural involvement very early on in the newspapers, on the television, etc. I'm not sure if that's intentional though. Had Trilby spent the whole game insisting everyone else was trustworthy whilst we the players did not trust anyone we'd probably feel quite disconnected from the player character merely through having a very different opinion on the scenario. I still feel like the game missed an opportunity to explore this paranoia idea.

Perhaps the weirdest thing about this game to me is how most of the characters appear pretty fine with the whole experience. Only Phil really changes over the course of the game at all.(SPOILER FOR TRILBY'S NOTES:)

Spoiler

This is quite weird considering that Simone apparently goes through a complete mental break down after the events of the game itself.

[close]

For a game trying to play with the idea of group paranoia, there's not an awful lot of paranoia in the group.

OH SWEET JESUS THE PUZZLES:

Most of the difficulty of 5 Days comes from you not knowing where to look for something. Perhaps the worst part about the game is a few scenarios where you find yourself wondering: "Why would I have thought to do that?"

When you're looking for Simone and Jim at the start of the game, you have to talk to Simone before you can find Jim at all. That does not make any sense already but it's made even worse by how you find Jim. Jim is up a tree that you have to interact with to realize he's up there. But he's only up there after you've spoken to Simone. So if you were unfortunate enough to go outside first, and interact with the tree, you would not bother to interact with it again after talking to Simone. The game pulls a similar irritating move later on when you're supposed to examine the pool on the second day when it has not visually changed. Why would I have thought that something about the pool would've changed? I can't see anything different. This kind of thing is a common mistake in adventure game design. You have to think to yourself: "Why would the player ever think to do this?" and very importantly: "Why would the player think to try it again?" And sadly this kind of thing is very easily fixed. You should have just been able to find Jim before Simone; there was no reason to impose that restriction. Something visually should have changed about the pool so that the player would think to look at it.

TL;DR:

When paranoia is a theme, you should try to give people a reason to be paranoid.
When paranoia is a theme, why are the majority of the characters calm?
Unless the player has a reason to think something has changed and to try again, they won't.

Anyway, I skipped over a lot of stuff because I wanted to stay under 500 words. But that's my nitpick. I hope some of you have something to contribute or at least found that interesting.

I'm uncertain of what the thing I've circled in red is. Is that a park bench? If it is I should be able to see the surface of the seat because it seems below the horizon line.

Now, this could be a matter of opinion, but the clear area on the right behind those bushes seems distractingly empty by comparison to the left side. It could do with some trees I think.

I'm not sure how many people here are going to bother to listen to this for more than a minute, because it takes it's damn time, but if I introduce one more person to this amazing Track/Album it'll be worth it.

Lots of Metal is obsessed with sounding as harsh as possible and being as fast as possible. This focuses being a grand pilgrimage of Stoner Metal.

The 63 minute and 30 second long masterpiece, Dopesmoker:

[embed=640,360]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJhRNnG65ps[/embed]

And yeah, I have listened to this all the way through before, on two separate occasions.

As a skeptic, I will say that talking about personal stories of stuff that you can't seem to explain is interesting and can produce some great stories.

My only personal issue is "Heard/felt/saw something I can't explain? Must be the remnant of a person who once lived but now their mind/soul/spirit is still around manifesting itself as sound, vision, etc etc. Despite the fact the only other 'evidence' for soul/spirit/mind-separate-of-body even existing is other stories exactly like this." Just because you can't find a "normal" explanation doesn't mean you get to pick the unjustifiably precise one of your choice. And why always ghosts? I mean, come on.

For an interesting twist, I encourage future posters of their paranormal stories to explain them in terms of leprechauns instead of ghosts.

I was dating that girl for 2 weeks. Then she started taking weird and cryptic stuff 'bout moving to my place and having babies.

Then *poof!* she magically vanished. No clue, nothing. Her phone number get erased from my cellphone. Her mail disapereared from MSN messenger. Dunno what happened.

Obviously she was a leprechaun in disguise and is forbidden to have relationships outside of their society, so her family took her away and used their leprechaun magic to wipe the number and mail.

I swore someone touched me on the shoulder.  I looked around, and nobody was there, and nobody could possibly have touched me and hid without me noticing.

Leprechaun. They're short and you didn't look down far enough.

As we were watching TV, the bottom left corner of the rug moved away from the wall. It then appeared as though there were a figure standing behind the rug, between it and the wall. The impression extended about a couple of feet up from the bottom of the rug, and it was clearly visible that the rug was no longer touching the wall behind it. This impression then appeared as if a person were walking along the length of the rug, from left to right. The rug uniformly pulled away from the wall, and then fell back, exactly as though there was a physical presence holding it out from the wall. When this impression reached the end of the rug, it was simply as though the apparent figure walked out from behind it, and the rug fell back flat against the wall.

None of the three of us ever saw a physical presence in the room with us, or any type of spectral apparition. My youngest sister at the time was about 11 or 12 at the time. I was about 16 or 17 I believe. All three of us independently saw this take place. After it happened, we all confirmed it with each other. I personally walked over, and touched and felt the rug and confirmed that there was no strings, no mysterious gusting, nothing that could apparently have caused what we had just seen. All three of us witnessed it, and vividly remember it. None of us can explain it, and still we are very unsure what exactly it was that took place that day. We all agree that the rug, without any apparent outside force acting on it, moved away from the wall, in a fashion mimicking someone walking along behind it.

Invisible leprechaun decided the room need reorganizing to perfect the feng shui.

Many years back I dreamed of a medium-sized white airplane, with a dark blue rear stabilizer, nose diving and crashing into water killing all aboard (at the first part of the dream I was on the plane but when it crashed I was watching it happen from outside).

Two days later Alaska Airlines Flight 261 crashed into the Pacific Ocean off the coast of California killing all aboard.  It really creeped me out!  Now people dream of plane crashes all the time (usually in the days/weeks before they get on board) but I wasn't flying anytime soon and the dream was very vivid (I remembered the look of the plane even days after when I heard the story of the crash).  Sure it was probably just wild coincidence... but who knows?

--

A few years later, while sleeping, I awoke from a terrible dream that my father had been admitted to the hospital for a heart attack.

The very next day I got a phone call from my mom that my dad was in the hospital (had some chest pains).  He turned out to be fine (not a heart attack but similar symptoms) but it was just like in the dream.  Coincidence?  Maybe...

Leprechauns were spying on your dreams and decided they seemed like pretty cool ideas and enlisted the help of the leprechaun mob to make it happen.

Readin a good horror story on the internet (creepypasta), really creeped out.
Alone in an apartment on the third floor of an apartment block, girlfriend is out with her friends, it is 2 AM.

I hear footsteps in the stairwell and rattling of keys at my apartment door. The door does not open. I dismiss the sound as "figment of imagination".

Minutes later, the noises repeat and this time I stand up to go take a look through the peep hole in the door. There are no lights in the stairwell, no sign of anyone outside the door. Nobody in their right mind would be running around in the stairwell without light on in there...

Put on the safety lock on the door, and turned on all the lights in the apartment before going to bed.

It was simple, subtle and perfectly explainable with logic, but still creeped the ever living shit out of me!

Leprechauns arriving home late, they have good sight in the dark so didn't need the lights on.

I can't explain when I sat home one evening by myself and suddenly someone hit me hard over the back (Like I mentioned in my first post) There was nothing imaginary about that...no drugs involved...it felt like someone hit me with a whip (I was sitting in my dead girlfriend's old chair btw) hehe......Or when I visited my brother in his house in the countryside...in the middle of the night in my room, someone laughed from the closet...we were the only in that house and my brother was several rooms away from me...that freaked me out MAJOR!!! hehe

I have much more to tell....hehe

You said something to offend an invisible leprechaun. Really you should try to be more culturally sensitive. Leprechauns like to read joke books in closets. Everyone knows that.

Well, I've had my fun. But I do seriously encourage it. It'd make the thread quite amusing.

You like your thoroughly unpronounceable titles don't you? I finished it, but I think I found a bug that I don't have time to check right now, but here's what I THINK happened:

Spoiler

I don't recall actually getting the wig off the Jack in the Box, I think I accidentally used the feather on the balloon and it turned into the Balloon + Hair

[close]

Well, here's a version with a lot more defined shade, and a lot less Ambient light EDIT: And a shift in the view, of course.:

Edit: Old Version

Planning on throwing more mess on the floor.

Double Post of Horrible.

New version, in the process of adding more stuff, gave the bed a stronger shadow.



I'ma go back through my other posts and make the images hyperlinks just to clean the page a little...


Edit by ProgZ (combined posts):  Please don't double post, especially not in such a short time from your previous post.

So. I decided the easiest way to tackle the angle/perspective issue was to remake the whole image.

Edit: Old Version

Everything was remade, except the poster, which I just edited in. I'm much happier with this version, so it was worth it I guess. I will probably end up tweaking it more/adding in more stuff.

Yeah. There was intentionally an exaggeration of the ambient light, but you have convinced me its too much of an exaggeration. So when I get the time, I will edit that down.

On the topic of the angle. I can produce similar (but getting it exact would take forever) shots, just with an unusual set up. While the unusual shot was intentional, it has been putting some people off. So I am considering abandoning my beloved incredibly insane shot. Even if I don't, the set ups I made didn't have the camera very high, so the light bulb in the foreground would be incorrect (probably.) I shall sleep on it.

New version! This one just fixes a partial erasure of a shadow I did by accident in the last image. And tweak some stuff to make the perspective more correct.

Edit: Old Version

Is this game from first-person view? Because I couldn't imagine character moving in room with such close and steep perspective.

No it isn't. The angle is particularly atypical just because I decided I didn't want a "normal" angle.

New version! My attempt to address many of the issues spoken of so far.

Edit: Old Version

It looks okay, this is the last place I expected an AoM poster.

Yeah, I decided to put a poster up so I just picked something. The problem is after painting the poster now I want one.

I'm pretty damn happy with this, considering I don't have lots of experience making backgrounds ( but I do have painting/drawing experience I just tended to focus on character work. ) But  I am perfectionist so I want to make sure there's no obvious flaws/good ideas I haven't thought of.

Edit: Old Version

Newest Version

Any suggestions/criticisms/rotten tomatoes are welcome.

Despite being very rough around the edges. (Mainly in the graphics department but you already knew that.) this game was very enjoyable. Humor is great. I love the fact that you can try so many things and get unique, humorous responses (Like attempting to talk to most things).

If you ever decide to make another project. I'll certainly be excited. 

This may be a bit "doom and gloom"ish, and I don't really think this shall become of AGS in particular buuutttttttt.


In my 5 years of Linux usage, hundreds of hours playing FOSS games. Joining Opensource communities and getting involved. Meeting the devs, and making friends with some. I've seen a few projects in their starting days.


And so far, the huge majority of opensource projects that ignore portability and being cross-platform, ESPECIALLY Linux support, have been failures. Due to lack of interest and support. AGS already has it's own interested and enthusiastic fan base, so it could easily not meet the same fate. But with most projects, the majority or entirety of the developer base are Linux users. Because many Linux users look for and take notice of opensource projects and support them because they emphasize and believe in the Copyleft movement. And most Linux users are extremely technical and proficient in programming. Every Linux user I know knows at least one programming language. But most know around 3-5. I use C/C++ and Python and Lua myself.


You can talk about total usage figures and how "Linux and Mac are an insignificant minority." How about considering maybe not how many computer users out there use Mac/Linux/BSD. Try thinking about how many of them would be likely to contribute and work on a highly technical project, for free, compared to Windows users.

EDIT:

Adding this because I feel I may have come across the wrong way. I'm not trying to say Linux is superior. Nor that it turns it's users into a race of superhumans. It's just people who like to program, like Linux's focus towards developers, and people who like the opensource movement and process, are drawn towards projects that follow it, like Linux and BSD.

Whoa. This is big news.

I personally would love to see the Editor opened. Mainly because Linux + Mac could do with a good Adventure Game tool, even though a port would probably take a while before showing up...


The engine being opened would also be cool (Do both of them use C#?)

If people are concerned about the ability to obtain content, then you could have that section of AGS still closed. I think the GPL is the only license that disallows that. Licenses like LGPL/ZLIB/MIT/BSD would allow for it.


I think some people here are thinking that it being open means that any random can make their own contribution and it has to show up in the official version on the main website. Which it doesn't.


But anyway. I look forward to seeing some Editor code sometime soon! If you decide to go for a small team of programmers instead, cool too!

Been trying some codecs, nothing so far, been searching for WFL specific ones, but I can't even find a mention of WFL as a proper video format, properties tells me it's an ASF video, but those are typically asf/wma/wmv.

Odd, I coulda sworn I read it supported videos, oh well, I'm probably mistaking. The game continues in WINE, but crashes in the Linux port.

** ERROR **: Resource not found.
aborting...
Shutting down Allegro due to signal #6
Aborted

Is the Linux Port error.

Video playing error: File not found or format not supported: Z:\home\<USER>\Desktop\TM\WFL\tm001.wfl

Is the error in WINE, and continues as I said before.

Hey all. I'm encountering an error saying it can't find the videos in "The Marionette" when the videos are there. I'm running Linux, and getting it in both the 2.72RC2 Port and WINE. Not the slightest bit sure what could be causing it, anyone have any ideas?