KQ9 is no more

[Erpy]

One point, though: when they got permission from Vivendi, the guys behind the KQ9 project bragged that their strategy had worked. Create so much buzz around the project that Vivendi wouldn't dare to shut them down for fear of bad press. At the time I thought that was a pretty underhanded thing to do. Maybe Activision thought so too and decided not to play along. In that case I would say they got what they deserved. Of course, it's the fans whose anticipation was built up and exploited who pay the price.

Erm...I personally think that the effectiveness of that "strategy" was blown way out of proportion by the internet community, especially by the folks who organised the petition. VU didn't shut down TSL earlier to destroy any fan-work containing IP they owned, they approached them to stop unauthorized use...but I believe the willingness to work something out was there from the start with VU. In the end, TSL got the very same agreement AGDI got (and accepted) and SQ7 got (and rejected). Neither AGDI nor SQ7 had a mass of fans write a petition in order to broker an agreement and I personally believe TSL would have gotten their fan license regardless of any petitions. Of course, it was in VU's interests to pretend the petition tipped the scales, since it suggests only fan projects with an extremely large following can get a fan license, reducing the possibility of other projects approaching them for a similar license.

Was talking to a guy involved with the project on MSN this morning. His summary was that the TSL crew were way too keen on trying to get their project endorsed as the official KQ9, following the SQ7 path (after THAT went so well ) and had even been pursuing a contract for a commercial release with Vivendi and then Activision. If that isn't asking for trouble, I don't know what is.

I heard a similar rumor once and I can see how that complicates matters because if a fan project is pushed as a commercial proposal, it stops being a fan project in the IP holder's eyes and thus if that commercial proposal is rejected by the IP holder, the proposer can't easily say: "Well, too bad, we'll just publish the project under the fan license you already granted us" without the risk of consequences. I don't know what I would have done in their place, since it was already established the only way for the project to get all its planned chapters out of the door (rather than just the first two) was if it WOULD go the commercial route.

As for changing the names, it's not that easy. Especially the first chapter takes place in the same country as KQ6...complete with characters and landmarks from that game. Changing names would be like selling homemade drawings of Mickey or Donald, but calling them Roger and Steve...a rose by any other name and all that stuff.

As for AGDI...we obtained reluctant permission from Activision to continue for the time being around the time VU Games and Activision were still in the process of merging and by that time all our projects were already released in some form, so as long as TSL fans don't go out of their way to drag AGDI into it by writing letters to Activision saying stuff like "Why are you letting AGDI off the hook and not TSL?", I think we'll be fine, though I'd be lying if I said this whole thing doesn't create a slight sense of anxiety with me.

[Darth Mandarb]

This whole thing sounds really fishy to me...

I think it's either a meek and compliant acquiescence to the C&D so they can work on it "under the radar" and then it will magically "leak" onto the interwebs (and be impossible to contain) or, and I find this the more likely scenario, they are [after 8 years] sick of the project and are using the C&D as an excuse to stop production that the fan(s) will accept.

Personally, if it were my project, I'd tell Activision to suck it and keep making it.

Or I'd do something really smart-ass like change the title to "Keeng's Quest" or "Queen's Husband's Quest" and change some spellings throughout the game and make the enemies a bunch of idiots in a stupidity cult  called "Lack o' Vision".

Meh ... to be honest I don't care either way as I wasn't going to play the game (most likely) anyway.

I just can't stand big corporations pulling stunts like this.

[NsMn]

And I was convinced that people understood by now that, if you're making a fangame, telling the owing company is the worst thing to do possibly...

[Radiant]

Sad news, indeed! It reminds me of Crimson Echoes, last year: another fangame that was weeks away from its full release.

It would be like if Lucas had somehow lost the rights to Star Wars in the middle of filming the prequel movies. Sure, he could probably have rewritten the story and made it not be about Obi-Wan and Anakin and Palpatine and Luke & Leia's mom, but what would be the point?

Ironically, Star Wars was made precisely because George Lucas wanted to tell a Flash Gordon story that he didn't have the rights for.

[Sslaxx]

As for AGDI...we obtained reluctant permission from Activision to continue for the time being around the time VU Games and Activision were still in the process of merging and by that time all our projects were already released in some form, so as long as TSL fans don't go out of their way to drag AGDI into it by writing letters to Activision saying stuff like "Why are you letting AGDI off the hook and not TSL?", I think we'll be fine, though I'd be lying if I said this whole thing doesn't create a slight sense of anxiety with me.

Hopefully what's happened with TSL won't impact upon AGDI. That said, I do hope you're putting plans in place if they do.

[LimpingFish]

What ever happened to original ideas?

Most video game publishers will hold onto the rights for many older games purely so they can keep re-releasing them to make more money out of them.  

As is their right. I don't see why the fan community thinks it has any claim over something they don't own, created by somebody else. If a publisher wants to sit on an IP and let it rot, then that's their decision.

Fan games don't interest me. I just don't see the appeal of continuing a story you didn't start in the first place, with characters who aren't your own.

If you must ape somebody else's work, make it an homage. At least then it will belong to you.

[mkennedy]

How'd the guys from the "Quest For Glory 4.5" game get away with it? That game had lots of questionable content, and if there was ever a target for a C&D order they would be an understandable target.

[Snarky]

They were shut down as far as I recall.

[Dualnames]

The weekly fan games shouldn't be Well, all fan games have the urge to go commercial and go for approval, because it feels to work on something really big. And that's the emotion that leads to all the choices that kills them. I'm using my name in this game, but I'm not going to tell anyone about it, at least anyone important..oh okay..a lawyer or a company that owns the right.

With me it's sort of different because no company owns the rights to this game anymore, and their tracks are lost to be honest. I've made a huge effort to find who has them, but no go.

[Dave Gilbert]

Honestly, the biggest surprise (for me at least) was that this project was even still around in the first place!  10 years is a long time for any project, even a freeware one, although it looks like they were getting somewhere with the episodic thing.

Here's a funny anecdote.  Back in 2003, the KQ9 team were holding voice over auditions for the game here in New York, so I figured I'd go.  In chatting with the people there,  it was obvious that most everyone there already knew each other from the KQ9 forums.  The auditions seemed to be merely an excuse for them all to meet.  They were a bit surprised that a complete stranger (me) had shown up.   Some of these guys had flown clear across the country to attend, and others even came from other countries.  I think I had traveled the shortest distance out of anybody there.

Anyway, that's the impression I got of the project as a whole.  That it became more of a community of people hanging out rather than a group dedicated to finishing a game.  Still, it's a crying shame that it was shut down so abruptly after being given the green light. What a bait and switch.  Hopefully they will move onto to bigger and better things.

[Dualnames]

Hopefully they will move onto to bigger and better things.

20 years?

[MrColossal]

Anyway, that's the impression I got of the project as a whole.  That it became more of a community of people hanging out rather than a group dedicated to finishing a game.

Hey, we call it Mittens, they call it Auditions

[Mr Flibble]

The statement on their website makes it sound like Activision asked to see it after having bought Vivendi as part of some ongoing struggle, as opposed to them sending it voluntarily.

What bothers me is that you just know that Activision C&D'd it because some unsalaried secretary was given the game and a list of "Properties we own but you haven't heard of because you weren't born" and she saw "King's Quest" on the list and saw "King's Quest" on the game and said "nurr durr" and ticked her little C&D box.

Bile thusly ejected at the machinations of corporation I'd like to point out that I wasn't going to play the game anyway. I suppose I'm just irritated by the logic of Activision. I understand the principles of protecting IP but they're missing a big PR and publicity opportunity here. And it's not as if the King's Quest IP does anything but occasionally generate a slither of sales from the retro collection anthology, and it's not as if a fangame and carefully plotted press releases about games that inspired decades of fanaticism would increase their revenues from those, right...

[Eggie]

It's so weird this happens.
I mean one of the most surefire ways to make your game properties endure and keep people interested is by ENCOURAGING people to make their own fan-made content. And these guys are so willing to go around expressing their love for this old, dusty franchise they spent eight years making this whole thing from scratch without a mod tool or graphics resource in sight to help them.
It seems counter-intuitive to pass up that kind of free, powerful endorsement that had so much potential to rekindle interest in this ancient intellectual property they just have lying around.

Just another example of an old company not understanding how the online fan-networks can benefit them... just like the music industry I guess.

[Darth Mandarb]

Just another example of an old company not understanding how the online fan-networks can benefit them... just like the music industry I guess.

Amen brother.  Amen.

[CShelton]

I blame the Devs for dragging their feet because:

1. If you can't finish a game in 8 years! something is very wrong.
2. They knew Vivendi was merging, why didn't they finish things up before the new company came into the picture.

That game was Vaporware, never to be finished, endlessly in development, by way of Duke Nukem Forever.

[DazJ]

Think of it this way.

If a company YOU own makes a successful series of games and then an outsider comes in and makes an unofficial sequel, your beloved series will always be associated with that from then on. It was THEIR series of games (despite being handed over) and they had every right to do what they did.

When I was younger I made a series of amateur horror films. Four in fact, and uploaded them to the internet. A couple of months later another amateur group decided they wanted to make a 5th instalment. Bear in mind there would be no financial gain for either of us, I still said no to them. The reason being it was MY series of films and I made them how I wanted.

That's just my opinion on it.

[Anian]

Think of it this way.

If a company YOU own makes a successful series of games and then an outsider comes in and makes an unofficial sequel, your beloved series will always be associated with that from then on. It was THEIR series of games (despite being handed over) and they had every right to do what they did.

When I was younger I made a series of amateur horror films. Four in fact, and uploaded them to the internet. A couple of months later another amateur group decided they wanted to make a 5th instalment. Bear in mind there would be no financial gain for either of us, I still said no to them. The reason being it was MY series of films and I made them how I wanted.

That's just my opinion on it.

Well there is a difference, they made a Broken sword fan game, nobody associated that from there on as a part of the series, just a good fan game.
But if you really feel that strongly about it why not overlook the project or add something to it or at least look it over to decide if it follow's the spirit or the idea of a project, that way you give your project a boost. Since when should a company like Activison or similar be afraid of a fan a game of an old adventure game.
Maybe they shouldn't have named it KQ9, just something similar, that could've solved the problem maybe.

On your example, don't know what the actual conditions were, but as you described it now, that's just strange behaviour from you, if not selfish. But still, I don't know the whole story, just sayin' what it looks like to me from your description.

[DazJ]

I can see why it came across as selfish but the reason was because it was MY work. I wouldn't want it tarnished by an inferior product.

We could discuss this forever but unfortunately, the license-holders are the ones who make the decisions.

[Intense Degree]

I think it's either a meek and compliant acquiescence to the C&D so they can work on it "under the radar" and then it will magically "leak" onto the interwebs (and be impossible to contain) or, and I find this the more likely scenario, they are [after 8 years] sick of the project and are using the C&D as an excuse to stop production that the fan(s) will accept.

Personally, I think you've hit the nail squarely on the head there, 8 years with nothing to show but a demo must be seriously disheartening.

There is a petition up now to save it but I would imagine it will accomplish exactly zero, being worth exactly the virtual paper it isn't written on.

Sad to see this one go.