Status of the Double Fine Adventure

[Parafia]

For 3 milion dollars me and Gribbler, could build a studio and make point and click adventure games for the rest of our lives. Things like that make me angry.

[Snarky]

I don't think we can say the money has been wasted or frittered away. Yes, there have been kinks, but it's not at all clear that they're the cause of the current problems (for example, I'm pretty sure Bagel got moved to a more meaningful art position within a month or two, after the initial arrangement didn't work out). The issue seems to be almost entirely that the game design is too big for them to complete in the time (=budget) available. That they didn't fully realize this sooner shows some poor management, yes, and if I was a shareholder in Double Fine I would definitely be angry, because having to spend that much more on development is going to make it harder to turn a profit. But as a backer and prospective player, I just want the game to be the best possible, and if Double Fine want to pour more resources into it to make that happen, great!

I remember calculations at the time of the Kickstarter showed the funds covering about one year of development, so if they were looking at three years (and cut it down to two), the budget overruns seem pretty much in line with what you might expect. The question is really whether the time they're taking makes sense given what they're making, and we really have no way to tell before we see the final outcome. And even then, reasonable people could disagree on whether e.g. the resources spent on concept art were worth it. (Given that the striking design is one of the strongest and most memorable elements of classic Schafer games, I'd probably be inclined to defend that decision. The rimlight system they put so much work and pride into, OTOH... maybe not.)

I also don't think comparisons to other projects are all that meaningful, particularly ones in completely different genres and art styles (from just a quick look at screenshots, the two you mentioned don't blow me away, but of course stills don't tell the full story). You also have to consider how far along they were in development when they did their Kickstarter campaigns, to what extent they're drawing on outside funding, and what the stated goals of the campaign were. As many people have pointed out many times, the Double Fine Adventure Kickstarter was in part about creating a behind-the-scenes documentary series, and that part is already being delivered to very high quality.

[Gribbler]

the Double Fine Adventure Kickstarter was in part about creating a behind-the-scenes documentary series

Wait. So the backers paid to watch some videos about making a game? How expensive can it be to shoot a short video in the office?

[Snarky]

Yes. See the original pitch:

Over a six-to-eight month period, a small team under Tim Schafer's supervision will develop Double Fine's next game, a classic point-and-click adventure.  Where it goes from there will unfold in real time for all the backers to see.

2 Player Productions will be documenting the creative process and releasing monthly video updates exclusively to the Kickstarter backers. This documentary series will strive to make the viewer as much a part of the process as possible by showing a game grow from start to finish, with all the passion, humor, and heartbreak that happens along the way.  Double Fine is committed to total transparency with this project, ensuring it is one of the most honest depictions of game development ever conceived.
[...]
For anyone interested in the inner workings of the game industry, either professionally or as a fan, this project will be a landmark in exploring the art of development.  For people that just love great games, this is an opportunity to help bring one to fruition.

(Once the campaign raised so much more money than they targeted, they explained that they would expand the project and it wouldn't be done by the original timeline.)

The "some videos" are a professionally shot and edited documentary series, filmed in multiple locations with interviewers, sound and camera crew over a period of (as it turns out) several years. So far it consists of ten full-length episodes (ranging in length from about 30 minutes to almost an hour), plus a number of "special focus" features called "Side Quest" that delve more deeply into particular team members or aspects of the production. I don't know exactly how much it's costing to make, but it's clearly not free.

[Ali]

I agree. Gribbler is seriously underestimating the amount of time that goes into documentary making.

Documentaries are really intensive, even beyond shooting. They produce masses of material. All of that material has to be watched, annotated, possibly transcribed, then sequenced. That takes time and money.

[Ilyich]

Is anyone angry about the fact that Tim Schafer went overbudget on pretty much every game he's ever worked on? I somewhat doubt that, because when the soulless publisher's money get "wasted" - it's clearly a matter of realizing artistic vision or at least fixing the leaks. And in the end, despite the cuts, we probably ended up with richer, better games than we would've had if they were perfectly on schedule/budget. How is this different? So, Tim's pretty bad at time-management and scaling his concepts, big news, that's not why we love him, is it?

And as hard as it is for us to understand how would one spend over 5 million on a point-n-click adventure, remember that everyone at Double Fine is a high-level professional with a solid salary, who work in a nice office with good equipment. And from what I can tell from the documentary (which is wonderful and is alone worth the admission price and then some) - we haven't yet seen a 2D point-n-click adventure of that level of quality, at least in the presentation department.

Double Fine's problem(although problem is not exactly the right word here ) is that with the unexpected success of the Kickstarter and the hype that it brought with it, this has become their flagship project on which their reputation will hang. That means they need to deliver the best and the biggest game they possibly can, which is exactly what they're trying to do. And that seems like a good thing for us, players.
So, don't get angry at them wasting money just because you know the exact numbers. Many games spend more on their marketing.

the Double Fine Adventure Kickstarter was in part about creating a behind-the-scenes documentary series

Wait. So the backers paid to watch some videos about making a game? How expensive can it be to shoot a short video in the office?

Change "shoot a short video in the office" to "Shoot hours upon hours of high-quality footage in the course of all 2 years of the development and cut it into a comprehensible and interesting narrative" and you get the picture. I think the documentary is around 5 hours long at this point, and all of it is very well made and edited.

[Gribbler]

If it was clearly stated in the Kickstarter campaign that backers pay for behind-the-scenes videos it's allright I guess. But personally, I still think they had better spend more of that money on actual game making than "professional" video shooting.
"Hey let's make a video of our artist drawing a room. We gotta hire sound designer, sound director, all high-salary professionals of course, with years of experience. We had to buy HD cameras, hire experienced cameramen, maybe few grips to hold the mikes (top quality, obviously) and such. Oh, and we have gotta pay for the studio to edit all this. Phew, we are ready, finally. Now the artist can draw his location. What? There's no money left for the artist? Bummer!"

You know, maybe I should try and raise couple million kickstarter project which I will thoroughly document in the Caribbean... From a yacht. 

Oh, right! I can't. I'm not a famous game designer from the 90s.

[Ali]

Grips don't hold mics.

[Gribbler]

My bad. Add professional mike holders to the list But still, couple grips would sure come in handy on a documentary set, right?

[miguel]

Well, although I still think that 5M (or 3M) is more than enough to make several quality point & click games,
if what we are getting here is the top professionals of the trade gathering to make THE point&click game, then yeah, it's going to cost money.

[Gribbler]

I'm just trying to make a point that somebody's screwed up budget priorities on this project. Badly.

Well, I guess we will have to wait and see if actual people making this game were as professional as the ones filming them while doing so.

[Ali]

My bad. Add professional mike holders to the list But still, couple grips would sure come in handy on a documentary set, right?

Oh yeah, stuff always needs gripping! But the costs for the documentary were very clearly set out in the original pitch. In fact it was a key selling point which might even have paid for itself in terms of the extra pledges it brought in.

I agree with Ilyich. With creative people like Tim Shafer we're always asking 'why won't the publishers/producers just throw money at them and then leave them alone to do their stuff?' I think we should try here and see if it works.

[Trapezoid]

2 million a year to keep a decent sized team employed isn't that crazy. Especially if they're talented-- they have to be paid decently or some other company will lure them away.

It's easy for a bunch of AGSers to say we could stretch that money out forever. But we're used to making half-hour games for free. And not having health insurance.

[Stupot]

remember that everyone at Double Fine is a high-level professional with a solid salary, who work in a nice office with good equipment.

2 million a year to keep a decent sized team employed isn't that crazy. Especially if they're talented-- they have to be paid decently or some other company will lure them away.

Perhaps I was naive when I jumped on the bandwagon and backed the DFA, but the high salaries of expensive artists and designers wasn't really what I envisaged my money going on.  I backed as a fan of Tim Schafer and the fact that I wanted to see a new adventure from him.*  The Double Finers, cool as they may be, aren't really people who need a 'kickstart' to be honest.

That said, the documentaries have been amazing (despite only having two episodes so far this year), and there's no denying that the problems encountered by schafer and co have made for some intense drama

^{(and had hoped Gilbert was going to be more involved, as we have discussed)}

[Igor Hardy]

But we're used to making half-hour games for free. And not having health insurance.

Man, are we tough!

Good to know someone like Schafer is watching out for the much more delicate DF-type guys out there.

[Mati256]

Schafer just screw the budget, and now theres the possibility that the game might never be released. And we know about this only after their second Kickstarter finished. That's another budget they can screw up, and theres also the Indie Fund, so it should be a fun year for Double Fine! Maybe Gilbert did the right thing when he got out of there.

[m0ds]

This is why I didn't back it. Because I would prefer him, or Ron, or whoever is the "name" we are paying for, to hire three other guys, an artist, animator and programmer, and make a game (with AGS). THAT would get my money. But then, I'm not Xbox generation. I actually look for reasons.

But we're used to making half-hour games for free. And not having health insurance.

Kudos. And they would do the same if game making really mattered to them. Seriously, when I ask for a mil, please by god cut me down and tell me I should just make a game because I love doing it. Because if it isn't mostly just for that, I'm doing it for all the wrong reasons.

That said, I hope it works out! It's still all certainly very interesting to follow

[Anian]

Kudos. And they would do the same if game making really mattered to them. Seriously, when I ask for a mil, please by god cut me down and tell me I should just make a game because I love doing it. Because if it isn't mostly just for that, I'm doing it for all the wrong reasons.

That said, I hope it works out! It's still all certainly very interesting to follow

To be fair, they have much larger expenses.

In any case, I didn't actually support this, not only because I had no money, but also the sell of "a game" instead of a planned out project is really immature and kind of unfair to other projects which actually have some work behind them before asking for money.

[m0ds]

Hehe they do! But IMO they have larger expenses because they created them. They didn't have to. The same way Ron G has "um" and "er"'d about using AGS for 10 years. He could do it, he just favors the commercial vibe over the actual "just make a game" one, IMO. And that's kind of the AGS motto. Just make a game.

Knife, fork - eat your dinner.

"No, I need a golden fork first."

Right. 

But then, it's personal preference too no doubt. I am stoked for the 15k Nelly 2 and have almost zero interest in "the DFA", despite loving Grim Fandango and such. People with less usually do more. At least, in my experience they do :/

Yahtzee, for example, earns a lot, has a lot of worldwide attention, yet he'll still go back to a freeware engine just to make a freeware game because that's what he enjoys and knows his players do too. A favorable mentality in my books, that earns in my books the title of "game developer". What Tim Schafer is...well, to me, not a game developer these days. A businessman, with certain motivations and intentions. If he'd have wanted to just "make a game" he'd have picked up RPG maker like the rest of us and gotten on with it.

I realize there is a business behind DFA and it requires more than your usual fare. I do hope it works out, and everyone feels positive and not ripped off at the end of it. But come on, to dick around with 3 mil. That's stupid. Doesn't matter what medium it is, book, tv, film, game, whore house - 3 mil is a stupid lot of money and if you can't make something with it, the hell are you up to, seriously? ESPECIALLY veteran game makers who have seen and been foiled and embraced by budgets for over 20 years, and must by now have nothing short of an expert understanding of them... It's very odd IMO!

Anyway, yeah I can't really interject cos I didn't contribute to this project. But those are my 2 cents as an outsider..!

[miguel]

Gathering millions of dollars to accommodate top but expensive professionals, Tim Shafer and Ron Gilbert to produce a fantastic adventure game is something that we could all be excited for. We would expect the best game ever.
Something is wrong or went wrong in the process because there's this "feeling" in the air that the money was misused somehow.

In movies you pay Brad Pitt 30M because he'll grant 100M just by being there. With Broken Age, Shafer takes Pitt's role. It's all very commercial and like Mods said, it looks like it became a business priority first and a top quality game after.
Like someone said before, if Shafer was trying to do the best game he could ever do and publishers/producers where the "bad" guys, we'd be supporting Shafer like he was our family. Who cares about money when a fantastic game is on the making? Right?