Trying out a new art style... sort of

[auriond]

Thinking of making a third-person game next, and trying out animation... The problem is that with my current art style, animation is pretty much out of the question if I want to finish the game in this lifetime So I'm looking to combine a simpler character style with the backgrounds that I know how to do.

Here's a mockup of the result. The room's not finished, just some things thrown in to give an idea of what the background art style will look like. The character is drawn in the style I did for Trinity long ago. The problem is I don't know if these two clash too much.



Any other critique or comments are also most welcome

[miguel]

Here's my humble opinion as I am also going for a similar style on my current project:

Although you've said the background is not finished, I think you could pick stronger colours on both character and BG.
Successful adventure games rely on strong colours and it does look a bit washed away...

But I'm not answering your question, Am I? Well I think you got it the right way, see, if you put on cleaner/darker lines on the BG it will look flat, this way there's a sense of depth.

What I don't like is the gradients, I prefer more drawn detail and maybe stronger painted shadows.
The handle on the door turned out perfect but not the cupboard ones.

This said, your character looks very good as the rest of the image does, it's clearly above average in it's own style.

[GarageGothic]

I think the character and background styles match quite well. You could probably add a bit more contrast to the background to make up for the lack of outlines (if you cover the left side of the screen with your hand, the remaining part of the background looks hazy compared to the character, as if someone smeared vaseline on the lens). Some stronger shadows might do the trick, as miguel suggested.

I really dig the simplistic character style which somewhat reminds me of my own game (using pre-rendered characters with a combo of cel-shading and sketch filter - I'm lazy):



Good work! Now show us some animations

[auriond]

I hear you on the colours and the stronger shadows. Thanks, I'll work on it some more.

GarageGothic, that's exactly the style I was aiming for, except maybe less detailed. Beautiful screenshot, by the way.

Animation, you say? Presenting my first ever attempt at animation from scratch. It took me the entire morning (actually, about three hours). My problem is that he looks kind of hunched forward. Please feel free to tear to bits.

[Jakerpot]

Just make his spine straight 
It's a nice work! How do you animate that? Do you draw each frame or you just edit it?

[auriond]

It's a combination of both, really. I start off by sketching a base animation with no details. Then I go over the base by copying and pasting the lineart over it, and editing to match the base.

Here's the base animation, if it helps any.

[Sythe]

Here's my humble opinion as I am also going for a similar style on my current project:

Although you've said the background is not finished, I think you could pick stronger colours on both character and BG.
Successful adventure games rely on strong colours and it does look a bit washed away...

Do you mean strong contrasts when you say 'strong colours'?

Because I don't believe this is correct.

Full throttle had a lot of washed out backgrounds (even in the day scenes), and it was pretty successful.

[Ali]

Sythe: I'm not sure what you mean by 'washed out'. I would describe the full throttle screenshots as high contrast and highly saturated (i.e. with strong colours).

However there are plenty of beautiful games that don't use strong colours, like Machinarium and Siberia. Low contrast is something that is probably better to avoid, because it can lead to flat, undynamic images (see Nelly Cootalot!).

auriond: This reminds me of Hotel Dusk, which is very positive. What I don't like about it is the lack of detail. GG's image is much richer and would be much more fun to explore in a game. If I were you I'd consider combining that character style with a 3D, or photomontage backdrop. The contrasting styles could create something unique.

[auriond]

Thanks Ali. The background isn't finished, but what I was aiming for was something like The Marionette's backgrounds, except perhaps less detailed, to match the character. GarageGothic's example has convinced me however that more detail might be a better idea. Quite a pity, since I was actually trying to achieve something faster to draw. I'll work some more on that background.

[Sythe]

Sythe: I'm not sure what you mean by 'washed out'. I would describe the full throttle screenshots as high contrast and highly saturated (i.e. with strong colours).

Against what standard?

However there are plenty of beautiful games that don't use strong colours, like Machinarium and Siberia. Low contrast is something that is probably better to avoid, because it can lead to flat, undynamic images (see Nelly Cootalot!).

I think the washed-out gritty sort of feel has a certain appeal to it. I don't think it's valid to argue that adventure games should have bright colours and sharp contrasts just because 'that's how adventure games are'.

[Ali]

As I said, I don't think games need strong colours, but I'm still uncertain of what you mean by 'washed out'. Low contrast, or low saturation, or both?

Full Throttle is a bit less saturated than the other backdrop (is that the Dig by the way?), but not much compared with this low-saturation screenshot:



I do think low contrast images have a tendency to be flat and uninteresting. Certain graphical styles work with low contrast, but it's often less exciting.

I'd call the Full Throttle backdrop high contrast because it creates depth through areas of light and dark colours. Here's an image that uses low contrast in all of the important areas, from the dreadful Journey to the Center of the Earth:



It looks distinctly flat in comparison with both of the images you posted. Admittedly the terrible composition is part of that, but the floor could have been broken up with pools of light.

[Sythe]

Full Throttle is a bit less saturated than the other backdrop (is that the Dig by the way?), but not much. I'd call it high contrast because it creates depth through areas of light and dark colours.

Yeah that is The Dig.

Here's an image that uses low contrast in all of the important areas, from the dreadful Journey to the Center of the Earth:
It looks distinctly flat in comparison with both of the images you posted.

I can certainly see your point. But, I actually don't think the problem with the image you posted is a lack of contrast. (And this may just be a mix-up of definitions.) The problem is that you have a lot of ambient lighting, which results in weak shadows and lit back-faces.

The human eye takes a lot of information from shadows and highlights about the depth and physical orientation of a scene. If you remove this information I think you tend to get that flat effect.

[miguel]

Don't want to star a discussion that is far from the initial post, but as I said, I'm working on drawn images and this topic is very useful to me.

Saying that, I do believe that until AGS is not capable of adding such atmosphere effects mentioned in a comfortable way, games made with it, that have higher resolutions should adopt a colourful, high contrast visual as to appeal to the general public.
Imagine all those Disney movies having their colours desaturated, they just wouldn't be the same.

Someone mentioned "The Marionette" (great game!) and it balances very well the issue in hands.

[Ali]

I can certainly see your point. But, I actually don't think the problem with the image you posted is a lack of contrast. (And this may just be a mix-up of definitions.) The problem is that you have a lot of ambient lighting, which results in weak shadows and lit back-faces.

I think it must be a mix-up with definitions! To my mind, flat ambient lighting and weak shadows is precisely what has produced a low contrast image.

High or low contrast in an image doesn't necessarily have anything to do with colour. Film noirs often use high contrast images black and white images. American soap operas often use low contrast images with high saturation. Journey to the Center of the Earth is aesthetically the soap opera of the adventure game world!

Imagine all those Disney movies having their colours desaturated, they just wouldn't be the same.

I'm also sorry to hijack auriond's thread! However, I must challenge the idea that Disney always uses highly saturated colours. Some of the most beautiful Disney animations use low saturated backdrops:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_QdHn8FT7SdY/RtUW_-HtdUI/AAAAAAAAAN0/WdUgZph0RxM/s1600-h/101c.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_QdHn8FT7SdY/SMHpp8qhf6I/AAAAAAAADrM/k6GzvkBVeOw/s1600-h/SB_25.jpg

[auriond]

Oh no, please do continue. I'm very fascinated by the direction this discussion is taking, and it may come in useful to whoever else is trying to decide on a palette for their game.

Personally, my taste in aesthetics favour low saturation. I have received feedback on The Marionette's backgrounds being too washed out and blurry, though, so I'm open to trying new styles and palettes.

[Sythe]

Imagine all those Disney movies having their colours desaturated, they just wouldn't be the same.

Right, because Disney is quite garish, and thats very much part of the animation style / genre.  (No disrespect to Disney of course.)

But by equal merit, can you imagine a gritty cult-classic like Blade Runner with garish pure colours? I think that it would be almost rudely inappropriate to marry any sort of serious crime fiction with saturated colours and brightly lit scenes.

I think it must be a mix-up with definitions! To my mind, flat ambient lighting and weak shadows is precisely what has produced a low contrast image.

High or low contrast in an image doesn't necessarily have anything to do with colour. Film noirs often use high contrast images black and white images. American soap operas often use low contrast images with high saturation. Journey to the Center of the Earth is aesthetically the soap opera of the adventure game world!

Yeah I think we are in agreement. The definition problem comes down to what type of contrast one is talking about. When I say high-contrast I mean that there is a great difference between hues used in the image, and a significant difference between highlights and shadows also. I would put Full Throttle in the "washed-out" genre because it uses a rather limited set of colours for any given scene, which don't produce a great deal of contrast on their own. But as you also point out, hard lighting (mostly in the form of shadows with few highlights) is also added which produces the sense of depth you were talking about earlier.

I need to study colour theory more, then possibly the definitions will be more clear to me.

[Snarky]

Oh no, please do continue. I'm very fascinated by the direction this discussion is taking, and it may come in useful to whoever else is trying to decide on a palette for their game.

Personally, my taste in aesthetics favour low saturation. I have received feedback on The Marionette's backgrounds being too washed out and blurry, though, so I'm open to trying new styles and palettes.

Personally, two things I thought detracted from the graphics in The Marionette were the pastel palette and the smooth chalk or airbrush effect (esp. on faces). It gave it a very eighties aesthetic that I find pretty cheesy, like the posters at a hairdresser or the celebrity sketches made by street artists. That made it hard for me to take the story seriously, because I was constantly getting these negative associations. And yes, the smoothness or chalkiness does come across as blurry in the backgrounds.

Your fundamentals are really good, but I wish you'd try something different with the finish, and tweak the colors a bit. Your new wip screen seems like a good start at developing a different look.

[miguel]

Ali: I see your point, great screen shots you gave. I was thinking, when I wrote the sentence, on some different movies from Disney.

I guess we can conclude that the mood needed for a scene/background is what matters when deciding on your palette, although I rather be transported and immersed to another world through "happy" colours than those somewhat depressing and foggy scenarios. But that's only my own taste speaking.

Saying this, I wouldn't want Blade Runner to have its colours changed a single bit

[auriond]

Personally, two things I thought detracted from the graphics in The Marionette were the pastel palette and the smooth chalk or airbrush effect (esp. on faces). It gave it a very eighties aesthetic that I find pretty cheesy, like the posters at a hairdresser or the celebrity sketches made by street artists.

Ah, that's what comes of being a true child of the eighties. Yes, I've had such comments on my digital art style before. It's a result of having developed a habit of overrelying on the smudge brush in Photoshop. I'm trying to kick the habit.

Does no one have anything to say about the animation? If not I'll just straighten his back and go on my merry way.  Thanks everyone for the comments and the insightful discussion.

[Matti]

The animation is a little short but he seems to put more weight on his right leg and thus looks like he's limping a bit. Otherwise it's nice and smooth.