Cannabis' Reclassification

[Calin Leafshade]

So cannabis is to be reclassified as a Class B drug.

For those of you who dont know what that means, It opens up personal users to 5 years in jail and an unlimited fine.

The advisory body to the government on drug issues recommended against the reclassification arguing that it was far less dangerous than alcohol and cigerettes. The government ignored the scientific advice and sacked the head of the committee for "criticising not advising"

What are peoples thoughts?

Firstly should it be a Class B?

Secondly should the government ignore scientific advice and clamp down on dissent of government policy?

[Bulbapuck]

Brentalfloss pretty much voiced my opinion in this video. (about a minute in)

It's stupid, it's really really stupid.

[Chicky]

I hate this argument. If you're going to sell tobacco and alcohol then why not bud? Alcohol is far worse for you than weed is, i've seen friends lying in a pool of vomit and blood from alcohol; when we were 13! The whole bloody world smokes weed and i've never seen someone throw up/pass out (let alone injure themselves) unless it was used in conjunction with alcohol. Hell i'm smoking right now and it 10am.

Shit happens i know, but it really would be nice if people didn't associate weed with other class B or C drugs.

[Nacho]

Cannabis increases negative effects of tobacco... and 90% of people smoke weed along with it. "It is not worse than tobacco" is a big phalacy.

Anyway, I would legalise it. I would feel a bit sad for those weak people who can't live without it (as I feel sad by alcoholics) but it's okay, it's its life...

[Chicky]

Yeah there's something like 3 times the amount of tar in cannabis compared to tobacco but the legality of tobacco means addicts smoke it everywhere, therefore smoking 10, 20 or even 30 times more than the recreational cannabis user.

Cannabis certainly shouldn't be treated the same as tobacco, we would have stoners falling asleep at the wheel everywhere but should be treated in the same sort of manner as alcohol. The problem with this is that alcohol is easily tested for, but cannabis can stay in your system for up to 3 weeks so blood tests would be useless.

[Calin Leafshade]

Cannabis increases negative effects of tobacco... and 90% of people smoke weed along with it. "It is not worse than tobacco" is a big phalacy.

Fallacy is spelt with an F. Phalacy, if it was a word, would probably refer to a penis (Phallus).  

Though what you said is arguably true. Joints are smoked without a filter and thus the effects of the tar are increased.

However there are lots of ways to take THC into the bloodstream. Smoking is just a more social way of doing it

Anyway, I would legalise it. I would feel a bit sad for those weak people who can't live without it (as I feel sad by alcoholics) but it's okay, it's its life...

Thats quite a loaded statement you've got there. Not everyone who smokes weed is some junkie miscreant who will kill for his next fix. Weed is largely harmless and less addictive than nicotine by a long way.

I really see no argument for canabis to be illegal if cigerettes and alcohol are legal. If it were legal it could be regulated. The trade would be taken away from criminals. The tax revenue would be a much needed boost to the economy. plus many more benefits.

We need a dutch person in this discussion. Im fairly sure crime rates in the netherlands are actually quite alot lower than both the US and the UK and there arent drug crazed nutcases wandering the streets killing babies

[zabnat]

I really see no argument for canabis to be illegal if cigerettes and alcohol are legal. If it were legal it could be regulated. The trade would be taken away from criminals. The tax revenue would be a much needed boost to the economy. plus many more benefits.

Actually, I think tobacco is legal because of lobbying and legacy. Alcohol on the other hand is legal because it makes you feel like you were hit by a train in the next morning.

I think it should be legalized. Negative effects on health are much smaller than on tobacco or alcohol, especially if used in some other way than smoking.

[Bror_Jon]

We need a dutch person in this discussion. Im fairly sure crime rates in the netherlands are actually quite alot lower than both the US and the UK and there arent drug crazed nutcases wandering the streets killing babies

Most European countries have lower crime rate then the US and cannabis is illegal in every country except Holland, so it's not likely that the ban of cannabis in the US causes it's high crime rate.

For an example:
The US had a homicide rate of 5.6 in 2007 while France had 1.6, UK had 1.4 and Germany only had 0.9.

This is also a good example, since you wanted to compare with Holland.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2e/Burglaries_per_1%2C000_pop.svg

I want to make it clear the I do not take sides in whether it should be legal or not, I just thought the idea of legalization how bring the crime rate down was weird.

[Intense Degree]

I can't agree with legalisation or that it is no worse than tobacco.

I would guess that anyone who has been a weed smoker, or around them, has a mate whom it has affected. Plenty of my mates smoke tobacco but it is only amongst my friends who do weed/skunk that I see some people (not all by any means but those who do it more) who start losing interest in going out, seeing other people, or infact doing anything that doesn't involve crashing round a mates house, or their own and smoking it. This doesn't happen just because of tobacco or alcohol (although of course they have their problems too).

To be honest I'm mistrustful of the "science" quoted by various people which seems to range from "it does nothing to you" to "it will destroy your mind". But from my own observation I know that it affects some people to the extent of losing their jobs, breakup of relationships etc. and just seeming to not care. I admit that this is probably a small percentage of people who smoke it (but probably a greater percentage of "heavy" users), but to me that is more than enough reason to prevent its legalisation.

[Matti]

I really see no argument for canabis to be illegal if cigerettes and alcohol are legal.

There is no argument. The prohibition of cannabis is one of the most ridiulous things I could imagine. And if you look at the history of the prohibition (in the US for example), the reasons were always different. At some point they said it's making people aggressive, in the 70s they said it makes people pacifistic and less patriotic. Also, that it's a gateway drug and therefore dangerous. Well, all of that is just plain bullshit and Cannabis surely should be legalized.

If it were legal it could be regulated. The trade would be taken away from criminals.

Yeah, that's a point too. People who want to smoke it, do so, despite the laws. but if it would be regulated you wouldn't get low quality stuff from the street that is mixed with dangerously unhealthy additives.

The tax revenue would be a much needed boost to the economy. plus many more benefits.

I think they're planning to legalize it in California just for that reason. The state is broke so it could provide a useful income source. For that I envy the californians (but not for Schwarzenegger..)


Edit: Damn, it's snowing outside. What an odd autumn...

[Victor6]

I really see no argument for canabis to be illegal if cigerettes and alcohol are legal. If it were legal it could be regulated. The trade would be taken away from criminals. The tax revenue would be a much needed boost to the economy. plus many more benefits.

Unfortunately there's folks out there who think alcohol and cigarettes should be illegal too, however that's a tough thing to do (Prohibition was a mess in the 1930s). Just because society has accepted these 2 recreational drugs it doesn't mean it should accept any more.

As long as cannabis remains illegal it restricts the rate of consumption, which in turn lessens the overall damage it can cause to a society. Once you remove the restriction there's a potential risk, and you'll have a hard time putting the genie back in the bottle if things don't go as planned.

[For the record, I smoke, drink, and enjoy cannabis responsibly]

Regarding the criminal element. If they lost cannabis they'd just move to something else, or import greater quantities of say, heroin. Alcohol and tobacco are legal and they're still sold illegally due to criminals dodging the tax duty.

[Bror_Jon]

As long as cannabis remains illegal it restricts the rate of consumption, which in turn lessens the overall damage it can cause to a society. Once you remove the restriction there's a potential risk, and you'll have a hard time putting the genie back in the bottle if things don't go as planned.

Just a thought: Make a "Systembolag of cannabis"
Systembolag = The Swedish governmental organ that are the only ones allowed to sell alcohol. It has made it very easy for the Swedish government to control the alcohol intake of Swedes.

[Matti]

Plenty of my mates smoke tobacco but it is only amongst my friends who do weed/skunk that I see some people (not all by any means but those who do it more) who start losing interest in going out, seeing other people, or infact doing anything that doesn't involve crashing round a mates house, or their own and smoking it. This doesn't happen just because of tobacco or alcohol (although of course they have their problems too).

Many of my friends and acquaintances smoke weed and some of the most 'successful' ones (who study effieciently or earn money) are also the ones who smoke the most. Cannabis does not necessarily make people lazy or uninterested. The drug isn't the problem, the people are. It depends on how they deal with drugs, not if they do drugs or not. And I think every adult can decide for himself what drugs he wants to consume and how much.

As long as cannabis remains illegal it restricts the rate of consumption, which in turn lessens the overall damage it can cause to a society. Once you remove the restriction there's a potential risk, and you'll have a hard time putting the genie back in the bottle if things don't go as planned.

What couldn't possibly 'go as planned' ? Do you think all the people would start to smoke weed all day just because it's legal?

Also, why should the 'overall damage to society' increase with legalization? I myself am heavily addicted to nicotine and caffeine and I also drink much. When I smoke weed I drink and smoke less, so the damage isn't at all higher.

If people want to do drugs they do so, may it be illegal drugs or alcohol. I don't see any argument that could lead to the conclusion that legalizing another drug would result in a higher damage for society.

[Chicky]

When I smoke weed I drink and smoke less, so the damage isn't at all higher.

I agree, weed is 10x more satisfying to a smoker.

[arj0n]

Cannabis increases negative effects of tobacco...

And it increases even more when also drinking alcohol...

When I smoke weed I drink and smoke less, so the damage isn't at all higher.

I agree, weed is 10x more satisfying to a smoker.

Still the combination of a smoking tobacco+weed and drinking seems to be the danger, it doesn't matter how much you smoke/drink...

The drug isn't the problem, the people are. It depends on how they deal with drugs, not if they do drugs or not. And I think every adult can decide for himself what drugs he wants to consume and how much.

True as long as it isn't hard drugs. Almost no one can resist that and just use it for only once in a few months or something.

As long as cannabis remains illegal it restricts the rate of consumption, which in turn lessens the overall damage it can cause to a society. Once you remove the restriction there's a potential risk, and you'll have a hard time putting the genie back in the bottle if things don't go as planned.

The rate of consumption will not go up by legalizing it. People who are buying it, will keep buying it.
And their consumption will still be the same. So I think it rather will keep stable.

Legalizing soft drugs give us at least one positive thing:
getting rid of those street dealers who drive those big fancy cars.

Oh, and when people should need it for medical use but they don't get a approval from a doctor,
they then can just buy it normally. Always better then those stupid pills.
I do know a person like this who is suffering from a neuromusculaire disorder and I made a joint per day [with a very limited amount of pot] for that person so she didn't had to take those slackening pills. And it did work way better.
With those pills she felled asleep in her chair within 5 minutes and also peed in that chair... Not with a small joint.

[Victor6]

What couldn't possibly 'go as planned' ? Do you think all the people would start to smoke weed all day just because it's legal?

There's a chance some people might. We can't take a rosy view based on our own current experiences, we have to look a the bigger picture. As you pointed out, the drug isn't the problem, people are. If the state can't trust society to use it responsibly, they can't risk legalizing it.

For example alcohol is fine in moderation, it's the binge drinkers who start fights in the city center at 3am that get the press (and society) moaning. It is a mind altering substance, it does affect peoples judgements, and with that comes the potential risks of wide spread use resulting in disasters.

[Pinback]

Class B eh? Gosh, look at the time, it's 1984 already!

Weed should so be legal. I'm an artist goddamnit, and weed is the fuel to my creative fire!
On the plus side, Peyote and Absinthe are basically legal where I live, hooray!

[Nacho]

Cannabis increases negative effects of tobacco... and 90% of people smoke weed along with it. "It is not worse than tobacco" is a big phalacy.

Fallacy is spelt with an F. Phalacy, if it was a word, would probably refer to a penis (Phallus).  

Hehe, sorry ^_^. Typoman attacks again.

[Darth Mandarb]

I do not smoke weed [anymore] but I support its legalization.

There are over 2 million alcohol related deaths each year [source] *

There are over 400,000 tobacco related deaths each year. [source] *

The whole "there are no marijuana related deaths" myth is silly.  While nobody overdoses on it, there are still related deaths/injuries but they are dwarfed by the number of alcohol/tobacco related deaths.  I couldn't find any reliable "yearly deaths caused by marijuana" facts but that right there says something in and of itself.

Anything can be abused if you don't moderate your consumption of it.  Sugar can kill you if you use too much of it.  It can lead to obesity, heart disease, diabetes... the list goes on and on yet nobody bitches about the legality of sugar or the huge (pun intended) problem of obesity it creates (or adds to).

* these "facts" were found by a quick 'net search.  I don't support them nor claim they are accurate.  Just using them to illustrate my point(s)

[The Bedminster Incident]

We discussed this back in school (in Germany, that is), and had the Netherlands as an example. After legalisation, the consumption rate went down to, I think, about 40%(-ish) of what it was before.
The cool kids do it because it's illegal? Well, then the solution is obvious.

By the way, there was one judge in Germany who fought for legalisation of cannabis. After stating that if it was illegal, so should alcohol be, he got so many letters with death threats (mainly from Bavaria) that he immediately got police protection. Made me think a lot.

Shrugging,
/tbi