Final Fantasy 13 OH HERE IT COMES ;D

[xenogia]

To best honest most AAA video games in recent years haven't grabbed me.  I think the last game was Fahrenheit for me, and even that fell apart 3/4 of the way through.

[auriond]

I contend that FF has always suffered from massive hair syndrome. It was just that in the early games, the sprites were so super deformed that nobody ever noticed.

[xenogia]

All we need now is Final Fantasy EMO.. its been slowly getting there.

[LimpingFish]

Tell us more stories about Bad Nintendo master Limping Fish!

At last! A use for my repository of (un)interesting videogame-related trivia!

Though, it has to be said, better people than me have chronicled the history of East-to-West videogaming.

For instance, Nintendo's localization and censorship policies in the 8bit to 16bit-era are explored in this nifty article here.

But to demonstrate the attitude changes when trying to package an eastern game for a western audience, you just have to look at box art through the ages. We went from the totally different (say, Strider Japan vs Strider Europe) to the almost identical (FFVII's box art is practically uniform across the board).

To best honest most AAA video games in recent years haven't grabbed me.

The sense of excitement and wanting to play eagerly awaited titles is largely gone from my videogaming life. :'(

I contend that FF has always suffered from massive hair syndrome. It was just that in the early games, the sprites were so super deformed that nobody ever noticed.

Indeed. The hair seems somehow worse when witnessed in 3D.

Another point about the first games is how they started off by aping the basic D&D-esque fantasy elements. Fighter, Thief, Mage, loot, etc. You played as a party of nobodies who took on certain characteristics depending on how you leveled up and such.

It wasn't really until FFIV-VI that we started being sold the wacky lone hero experience.

Anyway, none of them are a patch on Chrono Trigger!

...or Terranigma.

[Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens]

to be honest the gaming industry seems to be getting its best content from the Europeans of late.

I've found this to always be true, actually.  Look at the plethora of interesting and original commodore 64 and Amiga games for instance; note that I didn't say they were 'good'; usually these one/two-man show games were saddled with absolutely rotten gameplay mechanics, but so many of those games had wonderful, fresh ideas and approaches.  Take for example Bob's Bad Day, where you are literally decapitated and your head is dropped in a maze which you rotate to navigate through levels.  Weird?  Yes?  Creative?  Hell yes.  The Japanese are not what I would call 'creative' as a culture; they seem to hit their stride at being clever mimics that take something they really like and then refine the hell out of it until no one really cares anymore, and that's really the problem behind their rpgs; they've plowed the soil without putting anything back in and now the fruit is withered.  Their games always seem to be at their best when they have either American or European writers putting together coherent stories for them and at their worst when they peddle their usual brand of Japanese bullshit mysticism wrapped up in some other strange 'Gaia' package.  Frankly I'm sick of Gaia, purple hair, and massive, pointless diatribes by central characters moments before/after a climactic battle.  This is exactly why I abandoned console rpgs and returned to the more pleasing (if less flashy) pc rpgs like Arcanum, Dungeon Hack, and the various Lands of Lore-style games.  They almost always have more actual substance to them and a level of mature dialog that makes me feel like I'm part of a real adventure and not some childish, over-the-top fantasy.  Shit, even when I was a kid the anime aesthetic seemed immature and silly to me, and as an adult it's just like they're insulting me every time I read a line of poor, children's book dialog.  Who isn't tired of "I'll never forgive you!" and "Come again!" by now, for fuck's sake?

I mean god, "I'll never forgive you!" ?  Really?  How is that a momentous comment when the villain just killed your best friend?


Edit:  Oddly enough, a majority of gamers seem to have enjoyed jrpgs better when they tried to conform to european standards (rollable stats, custom classes).  The gerrymandering of the FF series back and forth between a full class structure of 'plain' characters to the lone-baddass-who-happens-to-need-a-party illustrates the struggle between Japanese and european approaches, and not surprisingly my favorite titles are the ones that allowed you to develop your characters into different classes (aside from FF3 US which aside from having an epically gay antagonist who needed his teeth kicked in was fun).

[xenogia]

to be honest the gaming industry seems to be getting its best content from the Europeans of late.

I've found this to always be true, actually.  Look at the plethora of interesting and original commodore 64 and Amiga games for instance; note that I didn't say they were 'good'; usually these one/two-man show games were saddled with absolutely rotten gameplay mechanics, but so many of those games had wonderful, fresh ideas and approaches.  Take for example Bob's Bad Day, where you are literally decapitated and your head is dropped in a maze which you rotate to navigate through levels.  Weird?  Yes?  Creative?  Hell yes.  The Japanese are not what I would call 'creative' as a culture; they seem to hit their stride at being clever mimics that take something they really like and then refine the hell out of it until no one really cares anymore, and that's really the problem behind their rpgs; they've plowed the soil without putting anything back in and now the fruit is withered.  Their games always seem to be at their best when they have either American or European writers putting together coherent stories for them and at their worst when they peddle their usual brand of Japanese bullshit mysticism wrapped up in some other strange 'Gaia' package.  Frankly I'm sick of Gaia, purple hair, and massive, pointless diatribes by central characters moments before/after a climactic battle.  This is exactly why I abandoned console rpgs and returned to the more pleasing (if less flashy) pc rpgs like Arcanum, Dungeon Hack, and the various Lands of Lore-style games.  They almost always have more actual substance to them and a level of mature dialog that makes me feel like I'm part of a real adventure and not some childish, over-the-top fantasy.  Shit, even when I was a kid the anime aesthetic seemed immature and silly to me, and as an adult it's just like they're insulting me every time I read a line of poor, children's book dialog.  Who isn't tired of "I'll never forgive you!" and "Come again!" by now, for fuck's sake?

I mean god, "I'll never forgive you!" ?  Really?  How is that a momentous comment when the villain just killed your best friend?


Edit:  Oddly enough, a majority of gamers seem to have enjoyed jrpgs better when they tried to conform to european standards (rollable stats, custom classes).  The gerrymandering of the FF series back and forth between a full class structure of 'plain' characters to the lone-baddass-who-happens-to-need-a-party illustrates the struggle between Japanese and european approaches, and not surprisingly my favorite titles are the ones that allowed you to develop your characters into different classes (aside from FF3 US which aside from having an epically gay antagonist who needed his teeth kicked in was fun).

I have start playing more of the new homebrew stuff that I see popping up for old platforms, most notably c64, zx spectrum and amstrad cpc. 

[auriond]

Shit, even when I was a kid the anime aesthetic seemed immature and silly to me, and as an adult it's just like they're insulting me every time I read a line of poor, children's book dialog.  Who isn't tired of "I'll never forgive you!" and "Come again!" by now, for fuck's sake?

I mean god, "I'll never forgive you!" ?  Really?  How is that a momentous comment when the villain just killed your best friend?

It's a staple of Asian drama, and is enjoyed (or derided) by adults and children alike. Same for the anime aesthetic.

LimpingFish's theory is fascinating. So the best games happened when they weren't trying to pander to an international audience? I actually sort of agree with that, if only because the introduction of voice acting kind of rooted the game in a certain culture and geographical location. I've watched the trailers for FF13 in both English and Japanese. Somehow, the entire feel of the game changed when heard in overly-American accents against some English R&B song. In Japanese, the drama was amplified tenfold, in that uniquely Japanese-weepy sort of way, and seemed to match the visuals better. Not saying that that's somehow preferable, but somehow hearing the American accents kind of grounded it in America, and that is just jarring enough to really affect the immersion.

[Chicky]

It's out now, fyi. This game is sweet, best Final Fantasy since 7. The visuals are beautiful and the Blu-ray player really shines on those HD pre-rendered cutscenes, no nasty compression like on the xbox 

[Al_Ninio]

Are you serious? It's the most terrible, most linear Final Fantasy yet.
Nothing but a series of dungeons (well, tunnels more like) with no character interaction, no exploration, no NOTHING.
The visuals are impressive, the cutscenes are indeed very easy on the eyes but there is virtually no gameplay aside from "walk forwards, battle, watch cutscene, repeat", the story's the same jumbled mess as usual... I did not enjoy this game one bit. Scanning planets in Mass Effect 2 is more fun than this.

[auriond]

I have to agree with Al_Ninio, but not entirely. It really is ridiculously linear - the most linear FF indeed. But I still think FF12 was worse. Couldn't get past the first part of the game even - lost interest entirely in the storyline. This one is all style and no substance, but that just means it's bland, not actively awful. The story is actually easier to understand than some of the previous FFs. I do enjoy the battle mechanics which remind me of FF8, although a much dumbed-down version. And of course, the graphics are always a plus.

[Chicky]

You're putting forward the same argument everyone does before they get past the first 5+ hours of gameplay, it opens up a lot and the combat is a long shot better than most RPG's. You need to level your team members into specific roles and create some decent paradigms and learn how to use them. It feels like a dungeon game at the start but throws a shit load of visual stimuli to keep you interested. Then once you're used to the game mechanics you can start learning the more complex elements. 

It's not as hardcore a RPG as previous games but is a tonne more enjoyable to play. The story isn't a jumbled mess, it's easy enough for this dopey stoner to follow. As for the character interaction, they talk to you when you walk up to them but you have the choice to ignore it and walk away, some characters you can engage in further conversation by hitting x.

At least back up your argument a little guys!

[Al_Ninio]

Glad you enjoy, I'll... play a less mediocre game.

[Chicky]

 

[auriond]

I'm well past 5 hours of gameplay by now, though I didn't check exactly where I am. Possibly 12 hours or so? I got the game on pre-order on Saturday.

You're right about the paradigms. That's why I think the battle mechanics are fun, though still dumbed down compared to some of the older FFs. Eidolons are tough to figure out how to use properly without automating everything though. The paradigms were a fun touch, I'll give them that. I still miss being able to control every member of the fighting party though. Still, the GAME itself is ridiculously linear. Where are the side quests? Where is the world map?

[Bulbapuck]

[...] Where are the side quests? Where is the world map?

Not having gotten this game yet, this worries me.

I loved ff12 because there was so much to do, is the game really as linear as al_ninio and auriond says? Hmm.. Maybe I should wait with this until the prize goes down.

[LimpingFish]

Apparently, it's not very good.

Very wary of picking it up now.

[R4L]

FF3 is my favorite on SNES.

I watched some of the battles on youtube, and people are saying how "epic" they are, but I can't see how it's even fun. Looks like a slower version of Diablo II, set to some battle music.

It looks OK, but definitely not as good as some older entries.

[Gravity]

I just can't understand how people can still be interested in the Finale Fantasy games. I lost interest in the series after Finale Fantasy Tactics and while I tried a couple of the newer ones, they just never held my attention for long. Props go to gamers who still find the series exciting but how much longer can they keep the series afloat?

[Chicky]

Why don't people just play the game for themselves instead of judging it on the opinions of single reviewers, this is stupid. If you don't want to fork out the cash then rent it first! It's pretty simple and if you couldn't care less about a new Final Fantasy then leave it be.

I'm not a massive Final Fantasy fan in any sense, but this one is great fun. Just because a load of fanboys got too hyped up about the release and are now devastated that it wasn't exactly like their initial vision, doesn't mean it should be overlooked.

I only argue this point because 4 of my irl friends are playing this atm and we all love it. I can see why the hardcore FF fans would be disappointed seeing as it is lacking in some places, but i honestly think it's the best console game on the market. The art direction is very imaginative without alienating the player and the story is  perfectly detailed without becoming confusing. I genuinely think that the combat system is better than any previous RPG and it gives the game an awesome flow, you never want to put the controller down!

If you're a Final Fantasy fan don't cripple your chances of enjoying a great game by focusing on expectations that it doesn't meet. Play this without the Final Fantasy mindset and you will soon see that it is a great game of it's own accord that takes some of the best aspects of some timeless RPG's.

[auriond]

First you say to back up our arguments, then you say we're just a bunch of fanboys who got our hopes up

If you don't think of it as an FF game, it really is quite fun. And that eye candy is seriously sweet.