Gay, the insult

[Raggit]

I've been working at a restaurant for a while now, and something happened the other day that has really got me thinking.  Most of the waiters and waitresses are in the 16-20 age range, and so this shouldn't be surprising. 

Now, I didn't see this happen, but I saw the aftermath.  Apparently, one of the co-workers called one of the waiters gay, either as a joke or meant as an insult.  (Not really sure, as I didn't see it happen.)  Upon being called gay, he responded furiously, "Don't talk to me you stupid bitch," out-front where customers could hear. 

A little while later, he was back in the kitchen and the manager was scolding him about saying something like that in front of customers.  All the waiter could respond with was, "But I'm not gay."  Even though that was not relevant to the talk he was having with the manager.

I have wondered for a long time why being called gay is such a terrible blow, especially to adolescent males.  But they use it as an insult ALL the time, and to them, it seems to suggest that you're less of a male if you're gay, or at least that's what I've assumed they think.  Either way, listening to them talk is a constant stream of "Faggot," "Gay," and "Queer."

What potential do they see in that to be an insult?  And if it's such a terrible thing, why do they dwell on it?

[shbaz]

It's a threat to my ability to find a mate if my potential mates think I'm only interested in men.

[Ryan Timothy B]

I really don't know.  I say it quite a bit myself.  I don't ever get offended by someone using the 'gay' insult on me, because I either know they are joking, or because I know I'm not gay so who the hell cares.

Sometimes when it's used, it can be uncomfortable though.  Like when you're in a unfamiliar crowd and you don't want your initial appearance to be damaged, while the person who said the gay insult becomes to appear more dominant or as the alpha male.  I kid you not.  lol

Also as shbaz stated, it can possibly destroy any chance of the opposite sex finding any interest in you.  Unless you're female and are being called a lesbian, then in most cases, the opposite sex will find you more interesting.  Not so much for me, but I know lots of guys who sometimes do find lesbians or bisexuals more appealing.

[Oliwerko]

I have only one explanation for this:

Rotten society full of shit  


Almost all people will react like that when you call them gay. Don't ask why. It's unexplainable. It's like racism. No point.

If someone called me gay, I would say something like "oh yeah, I've always found you sexy, man!". It's really dumb to call someone a gay. It's equal to calling him a black/yellow anything.

It's just one of the revolting sides of modern society, nothing more, nothing less.

[TwinMoon]

I have wondered for a long time why being called gay is such a terrible blow, especially to adolescent males.

In your adolescence you're still searching for your sexual identity, so I guess it's insecurity that makes you real touchy about being called gay. And I know there are men who are scared about being reduced to a piece of meat by other men, but they're pretty much all idiots.

As for the hostility towards gay people, I haven't a clue. It's probably a cultural thing (young people see their friends / family making fun of homosexuals so they don't want to be gay because they don't want to be made fun of).

[Radiant]

Yep. I never quite understood that part myself.

Where I live, most common insults involve disease - which is nasty, but then these are insults we're talking about. So then at some point I found myself in the US, where apparently the worst insult you can give to a male student is calling him a girl.

Now I don't know about the rest of you, but personally I'd find girls much more pleasant than such things as cancer, typhus, cholera and smallpox...

[Ryan Timothy B]

Where I live, most common insults involve disease

What kinds of things do they say?  "Andrew has cancer!" or "Get away from me smallpox carrier"  Weird, I've never heard of that.

[Radiant]

What kinds of things do they say?  "Andrew has cancer!" or "Get away from me smallpox carrier"  Weird, I've never heard of that.

Essentially, yes, but it doesn't sound as good in English.

[Stupot]

Interestingly, I'd be more defensive if someone was to genuinely enquire about my sexuality than if someone was to call me 'gay' as an insult.

For example if I was walking down the street and some kiddy shouted "Oi, gay boy!" I'd igmnore him and think he was a twat... but a few years ago my sister asked me if I was gay, in the most non-insulting, understanding way possible, and I flipped.  She must have honestly thought I was gay and was trying to get me to admit it... and I took offense to that.

I'm about as straight as they come, I'm just really shy around women, especially when I quite like them.

[Ryan Timothy B]

You know what Stupot, I think you're right.  If someone I knew (or even worse, didn't know) sincerely asked me if I was gay, I'd probably flip out too.

[InCreator]

It's a threat to my ability to find a mate if my potential mates think I'm only interested in men.

Possible.

But I think that it's not the word or its meaning that offends, but thought behind it. I mean, usually if one goes calling other gay, that's a try to insult as heavily as possible. "Gay" was simply word chosen to use as "teh ultimate insult". It could have been aswell anything else. Term "gay", for straight men, is a term that tries to isolate and expel the named one, making him not a member of the social group ("not one of us") and forcing him into another group.

Most of the heterosexual males I know are either homophobes or simply deny it's existence, or are a bit less than neutral... "whatever as long as you leave my ass alone" is most common take on the subject. More or less, I'm too. Beautiful talks(or brainwashing) of tolerance and gay pride is what media does, not really casual people. That depends on country too, of course. But even many of those "politically correct" in public act different way when with friends etc.

If it's told as an insult, it's an insult.

[LimpingFish]

Calling a heterosexual male gay is only useful as an insult because the heterosexual male ego is so stupidly one-dimensional.

In the deepest, darkest, most primitive corner of his brain, the average heterosexual male believes his masculinity is all he really has to entice the female sex. Which is why the average heterosexual male is no more psychosexually complex than the average chimpanzee. If all it took to win over a prospective mate was to stand on a rock and thrust our scrotums in the air, then we would happily do it.

To take away our masculinity (in the hetero sense) is to deny us our ability to hold the status of Alpha Male. To be accused of being gay by another prospective Alpha Male is something the ego can deal with; it simply dismisses it as jealousy, or an attempt to weaken a rival in the eyes of a prospective mate.

But when the accusation is made by a prospective mate? The ego is castrated.

Like most things related to sexual politics, it's all utter and complete bollocks.

[Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens]

I think you're really over-analysing and over-generalising there, Fishy.  I don't think it's some kind of social stigma, nor do I think it's about some primitive need to defend masculinity (in a great majority of cases).  What it comes down to is the simple fact that there are still people out there who find homosexuality distasteful (unsurprisingly) and don't want to be associated with it on any level.  This especially applies to members of certain religious groups who are quite adamant against what they consider perverse acts.  I personally am not a pro-gay person, but I certainly wouldn't get insanely angry if someone called me gay as a joke or an insult.  Insults are funny, that way; they affect people differently, and I've seen people get fighting mad over being called niggers and spics or people being called crackers and honkeys far more often than I've seen anyone get into a fight over being called gay.  It's really all about a person's internal control and ability (or lack thereof) to shrug off personal attacks more than any sort of primitive male-ego boosting.

[Becky]

If someone I knew (or even worse, didn't know) sincerely asked me if I was gay, I'd probably flip out too.

That in itself is pretty fucked up.  What is so wrong with someone enquiring about your sexuality that the thought that you could be anything other than straight straight straight! is enraging? 

[Vince Twelve]

I've got to agree with Becky.  I've been asked if I was gay several times, mostly because I have several gay friends and lived with one gay friend for three years.  Being asked a legitimate question like "Are you gay?" in no way made me somehow less manly or more homosexual.

And the idea that some dude calling you gay will somehow diminish your ability to find a female mate...?  I just can't follow that.  I'd wager that any girl within earshot of someone freaking out upon being called gay would likely be more inclined to assume that your overreaction is due to your sexual insecurity and thus be less inclined to to doodle you.  If you simply called the person on being ignorant in thinking that "gay" is a derogatory term, and shrugged off any further insults from the Neanderthal, I'd figure your stock would go up.

Ladies?  Confirmation?

[brokenbutterfly]

Ladies?  Confirmation?

You have mine  Anyone who freaks when called gay might not be as manly as he thinks. That's what most girls will believe, and maybe we're wrong but that's how this reaction would make us feel.

Over here guys don't use "gay" as an insult so much, they use "homo" or our own word for it. When I speak in English to American or British friends, I don't like using the word "gay" to refer to something I don't like. Mainly because I have gay friends, and I don't like the word being linked to something negative (people consider it negative enough as it is). "That movie is so gay!", seriously, what's that supposed to mean? Just say that it's bad, and everyone will understand.

[LimpingFish]

I think you're really over-analysing and over-generalising there, Fishy.

Guilty as charged. But I would also consider instances of heterosexual men becoming angry solely because the thought of one man penetrating the anus of another sickens them, fairly insubstantial; though such a reason may adequately validate any homophobic reactions they might experience.

I agree that being called "gay" hardly rates as an insult, and certainly wouldn't move me to react, violently or otherwise, and that someone who reacts to being called gay would probably also react to be being called a pussy or a wimp in exactly the same manner.

(EDIT: No need for the bit that was here. )

I was implying that such an "insult", to an insecure hetero male mindset, could be, within the confines of their fragile ego, socially devastating, if it comes from someone of the female persuasion; in fact, I would say a reaction would therefore be more likely.

In that way, I think it can be linked to a more primitive social outlook.

Of course, not every heterosexual male would respond in this manner, and it would take one that wasn't just sexually immature, but immature in general, and possibly unstable, to react in a violent manner.

"That movie is so gay!", seriously, what's that supposed to mean?

Indeed. The word "gay" has come to represent everything which doesn't conform to an ideal, personal or social, which is accepted as "Normal". Or possibly even "Right".

That haircut is GAY, that car is GAY, that dog is GAY. And GAY equals WRONG. And WRONG will not be ACCEPTED.

Maybe that's the biggest fear of all.

[Disco]

And the idea that some dude calling you gay will somehow diminish your ability to find a female mate...?  I just can't follow that.  I'd wager that any girl within earshot of someone freaking out upon being called gay would likely be more inclined to assume that your overreaction is due to your sexual insecurity and thus be less inclined to to doodle you. 

I quite agree with this reasoning. Nearly every time I hear of an outrageous, never-in-a-million-years, over the top scandal going on it is by some loud-mouthed anti-gay personality who was caught doing something they supposedly abhorred. It has reached the point where my first instinct if I hear likewise is to assume the perpetrators are indeed homosexual.

Regarding the "flipping out" if being asked if I were gay, Becky has it right. I too have been questioned often, but I tend to respond in the opposite. If a guy asks me out or tries to give me his number or something, despite not being gay myself I think the attention is nice. I am the first to admit that I am not in the least an ideal specimen of testosterone, so can understand why people would be curious.

What I think is really wrong with the culture is that many men feel the need to act in a  certain way that solidifies their sexuality in the eyes of others, even against their true conscience. That sounds to me like one of the easiest ways to waste a life.

[auriond]

I dunno... I know quite a few ladies who find gay men all the more attractive. Forbidden fruit and all that. Plus there is a kind of "stereotype" emerging that "gay men are cuter". I guess this means that they take better care of their image.

I have a few gay friends myself, but they're all female. I assume that this means any gay males I know are probably not willing to come out of the closet. I've always thought that the stigma against two men together is much stronger than two females together. "Butch" is nowhere near the level of insult that "gay" seems to have in society.

I wouldn't try to guess why, not being a male, but I think it's really very sad.

[LimpingFish]

If a guy asks me out or tries to give me his number or something, despite not being gay myself I think the attention is nice. I am the first to admit that I am not in the least an ideal specimen of testosterone, so can understand why people would be curious.

Interesting points, Disco.

How many straight men will admit to being flattered when hit on by another man?

And has society reached a point were it's legitimate to surmise someones sexuality by comparison to certain ideals?