Greece in trouble

[Nikolas]

A 15 year old teen, was shot dead from a policeman in the night of the 6th of December. Since then, all hell hos broken loose, with no end in sight (still to early).

It does appear to me that these are the results of the recent crisis, which seemed to somehow overpass Greece, but obviously didn't!

http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/english/world/10525742.asp?scr=1
and
http://www.theage.com.au/world/greece-riots-violence-erupts-after-teen-shooting-20081207-6t2m.html

[Akatosh]

Ouch. Seriously... OUCH. I mean, street brawls? Barricades? Fire bombs? Tear gas? Good thing there are no casualities yet (apart from the unlucky teen), but if it goes on like that... urgh. I hope people calm down before a catastrophe happens.

[Nacho]

Indeed, Akatosh... What is this thread about, Nik? We can only send our sympathies and hope nothing *really*  bad happens (apart from the unfortunate incident with the dead teenager...)

So... That. Hope everybody is ok and it ends asap.

[Nikolas]

This thread is about the news and the situation which seems pretty fucked up right now. The tension is rising actually, as more news come in, from the unfortunate shooting of the teenager...

There's nothing we can do really, but I just felt like sharing the bad news...

[Eggie]

Jesus, that's ridiculous. I hate it when people decide they're living in a bad 'what if' novel and do stupid stuff like this.

[passer-by]

Just a passing remark:

I do believe the dead kid should be alive and well and rebelling. But

was not shot dead while strolling in the park holding hands with somebody young and cute.

It seems that everybody forgets to mention the situation under which this **** event happened.

[Nikolas]

Passer by: I do agree largely with what you're saying.

The kid is being hailed (in facebook and everywhere else) as a "hero". Even worst there are "eye witnesses" (who happen to belong in anti-goverment groups), who mention the group of kids are "innocent". Of course by no means the cops should shoot, but never the less it's a slightly more complicated situation than an "innocent hero" is being shot just like that...

[Vince Twelve]

Sounds awful Nik!  You keep that family of yours safe!

[Phemar]

Those policemen have the coolest looking helmets. Looks like something from a Stanley Kubrick film.

[Trent R]

A "hero"? More like an unfortunate idiot.

Both sides are to blame, the cop should have fired a warning shot (I don't blame the other cop for throwing a stun) and the kid and his buddies shouldn't be pelting cops anyway.


~Trent

[Ghost]

Unfortunately, that boy will now be whatever media makes him. I hate it when they use a death to sell some additional issues.

Nick, "thanks" for sharing those links; I must admit that without them, I would've missed the issue completely. And that alone is frustrating: that over here, hardly one and a half country away, these flares are "non-existent news".

(edit: You know how to read the quotation marks around "thanks")

[Nacho]

I' ve read different versions about "the shooting". Well... to be honest, the Spanish media is basically saying that the policemen ejecuted the guy for doing nothing, because they feel in the mood of killing someone that day.

I don't believe it... I am not that naïve to think there there are no cowboys in every policial corp in every country, but I simply can believe that one day a policeman wakes up and says "Okay, I am going to shoot to the first kid I see".

Can someone tell me what happened? Short brief, please, I don' t want to read the links

[RickJ]

From what I've read a group of thirty attacked the police car in which the two policemen were patrolling.  The  police stopped the car to disperse the group because I guess that would be their job.  Instead of dispersing the group continued throwing stones and other projectiles and advanced on the officers.   

The article I read also said that it is not uncommon for large groups to ambush the police.  It also said that these people responsible are leftists.

 

[Nacho]

I' ve read that as the "police version". And then, a battery of "witnesses" telling that the police, basically, executed the guy. O_O

[Darth Mandarb]

Stay safe Nik!!

The victim's friends will, of course, say that the cops straight-up executed their friend.  They'll actually believe it too (even if it was strictly self-defense on the cop's part they'll never see/admit it).  The media will, of course, take the side of the story that is more dramatic and spin it from that angle.

I think it sucks that the young fella lost his life, don't get me wrong.  But he assaulted a police car ... did he think the cops in the car were going to throw candy at him?  It was a stupid thing to do (no matter what his reason was for doing it) and that level of stupidity had dire consequences.

[Nacho]

When things like this happens, I allways have the same feeling, which is sorta: "Ouch! those polices are beasts! How can they have such an easy trigger? Wow!... Eeeeerm... Yes... but.. But I think that things like that are never going to happen to me, since I don' t like to mess in that situations".

Same here. Death allways sucks... But seems that death finds those who like to tempt their fortune.

[Nikolas]

Darth: Indeed what you say.

It is, however, rather truthful that in most parts of the world you don't expect to walk towards a car, with no weapon on you and get shot dead...  It certainly was stupid but it does appear that they were 'taunting' the police, rather than anything else. They were a group of around 30 youths, having too much fun and being morons...

There's a lot of trouble in Greece over the recent years, exactly with the same people. You get leftists making a parade for the... 17th of November, (important date for greece, thus the name of the terrorist group in greece), and you also get some groups around smashing things. Every single year. It's not uncommon for groups to create havoc and problems.

Then again to die for that is simply awful, no matter what.

Still, with this incident the world seems to have exploded, to the extend that everyone right now seems to be dissatisfied with the situation we're in. All of them, for everything. There is a high level of aggressivness to the people right now, and this is how they react. Had things been better, the reaction would be totally different (at least I'd like to think so).

[Nacho]

Dissatisfied with the situation? Can' t they wait till the next elections? Burning cars and making riots is not the way to show you dissaprove a situation, specially in a democratic country.

I mean... when were the last elections? If they were not that long, deal what "you" (Greece) voted.
If they were a long of time ago, the next elections can't be far. Wait, go, vote, and try to change the situation as civilized people do.

I wonder how media would see this if the situation was exactly the same but with extreme right doing the riots and not extreme left... "Heroes" would surelly turn into "vandals" soon. For me, both situations are vandalic.

[Darth Mandarb]

I like to think that this kid would have known better on his own ... but it's always the case that individuals are smart, groups of people (mobs) are stupid.  People find themselves caught up in the mob-mentality and doing things that, on their own, they'd never do.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I have been in a vehicle surrounded by "hostiles" before ... it's a totally helpless and scary situation.  You can't get out of the car, but you feel like you can't stay in the car either.  You never want for wings so badly!

It is, however, rather truthful that in most parts of the world you don't expect to walk towards a car, with no weapon on you and get shot dead...  It certainly was stupid but it does appear that they were 'taunting' the police, rather than anything else. They were a group of around 30 youths, having too much fun and being morons...

A civilian car sure, I would agree... but a police car though, as part of a mob?  It was just a stupid thing to do.  I think a wild lion is cute but I'm not going to approach it and start petting it no matter how justified I might feel in doing so.

I wish they were releasing more information ...

I'd be curious to know if the officer that fired the stun weapon was in possession of the only "less than lethal" device in the car (night-sticks are useless in the confines of a vehicle and mace and/or pepper spray would (at those ranges) have had the same effect on the officers).  I'd also like to know if the officer that killed the kid thought he was firing "warning" shots.  When there's a mob surrounding you it can be difficult to find open air to fire deterrent shots.

I'd also to be curious to know if all the mob participants were actually weaponless (bats, sticks, pipes, etc count as weapons)  I find it unlikely that they were. I mean if they were willing to mob around a cop car I'm sure they were holding some kind of weapons, but that's just a hunch on my part.

[Nacho]

Well, Darth... If a mob surrounds your car, you can call this guy:



And I partially dissagree with the "Mobs are stupid". Well... I agree that they are, but I' ve found myself in riots and I've left the place asap... I don' t really see it as an "excuse" (I know you are not telling it is an excuse...) but it is a point for my theory of "this never happens to "normal" people".