I have a problem with future.

[MrColossal]

Trapezoid:

http://www.thelonelyisland.com/theheist.mp3

there, enjoy!

[TheDude]

So, be it Rap/Rock/Hip-Hop/Country/Whatever, if it 'glorifies' violence, drugs, or other bad things, I consider it shit. Songs about those things where the point is, 'they're bad', are okay (in my opinion).

I don't think you can say a song's shit solely because it glorifies drugs, if that's the case then you're not really listening to the music, just the lyrics. So if you take one of the songs that glorifies drugs and change the words then it's no longer crap?

My top 5 or so bands... 4 of the singers have died of a drug overdose. Cobain (Nirvana), Layne Staley (Alice in Chains), Shannon Hoon (Blind Melon) and Andrew Wood (Mother Love Bone). I don't think music hugely influences whether or not you will take drugs since a lot of my music is about drugs and i'd never touch them, not even pot. I think if your music/mtv/media influences what you do then you're just a sheep anyway.

The best song about drugs in the world
Alice in Chains - Junkhead (it doesn't glorify drugs or say they're "bad", get it from Kazaa and it's not rap either, they sound a bit like a dark U2 :P)

[Trapezoid]

Archangel and MrColossal: Okay, I figured there would be rap songs like that. What I meant was, I want to hear a song like that break the top 40, and permanently change the expression of all other gangsta rap to come.
But that won't happen, because it's not as marketable. Nah, I just wish black culture would regress back to funk. Funk was so much better.

Edit--sorry, the mp3 wouldn't download, actually. Point still stands, there are decent-minded rappers, but they're neither trend followers nor trend setters.

[MrColossal]

I was joking Trap, download the MP3 is hilarious

[DG is WRONG!]

I agree with eventlab.

DG just argues for the sake of arguing, and he often ends up just calling people's opinions 'wrong'. If not explicitly, then vicariously at least, and if not deliberate, then easily interpreted.

Just give it a rest DG and agree to disagree, as opposed to trying to act all smart and pick out every little thing.

Darth wasn't blaming EVERYTHING on MTV etc, and it was pretty obvious to everyone else. He just used MTV as a prominent example because it's so popular and DOES demonstrate a lot of what he was trying to say, which is easier than quoting 5,000 different resources.

There. I've had my rant. I can rest assured in the knowledge that this post will NOT go unattacked...

[DGMacphee]

Just give it a rest DG and agree to disagree, as opposed to trying to act all smart and pick out every little thing.

No.

Darth wasn't blaming EVERYTHING on MTV etc, and it was pretty obvious to everyone else. He just used MTV as a prominent example because it's so popular and DOES demonstrate a lot of what he was trying to say, which is easier than quoting 5,000 different resources.

And I've said (many times) that blaming MTV and mass media is a superfluous as blaming Marilyn Manson for the Columbine shooting.

Look, I've shown why I think Darth hasn't thought carefully about his original theory. I didn't just call his opinions "wrong" -- I backed up my claims with why I thought they were wrong.

And if you or Darth or anyone wants to take this so seriously that you feel I'm attacking you personally, then fine, think that.

But I'm not -- don't take it so personally.

I don't just argue for the sake of arguing -- I do have a point, and that is to show that some people haven't thought about their points of view very carefully.

[SpamWich]

Everyone knows that DG has the IQ of a dead fish.

And smells even worse.

ha ha ha ha..

The lurker

[DGMacphee]

At least I got the balls to post while logged in.  

[evenwolf]

DG, regardless of this particular situation, admit that nit-picking exact phrases, AGSers, and examples is a method you commonly use in your replies of debate.

You do this often and with much passion.   But who is your intended audience?

To me, it seems like the particular person to whom you are replying is your sole audience.  You quote them line by line, so naturally that person will read through your long post and reply.

However, you just said that your reason for posting "is to show that some people haven't thought about their points of view very carefully."

That works if your intended audience is Mandarb in this instance, because he will read your posts directed to him.  (Although I don't know what good it will do, because no one will ever agree that they are not smart or informed on the issue.) But the rest of us have very little interest in following you quote by quote, out of context of the original debate.   I hope you think about what I am stating because I don't think you understand my point of view.  

Sometimes huge bodies of text directed at one other person contribute very little to a debate.  Rather, they can be distracting and self-serving.  That's why most of us choose to ignore eachother rather than try to debunk individuals we think are speaking out of their asses.  

I wish for you to realize these posts are distractions only so you will consider making future posts that everyone will be interested in reading and replying to, which will make debates flow so much better.

Please reply as a whole and not to each segment or fragment, completely out of context. Thank you.

[DGMacphee]

Listen, Evenwolf, I appreciate you giving me advice on the proper way to argue, but the sad truth is I don't intend on debating for an audience.

My comments are directed to Darth and only Darth, thus the reason I'm replying to him -- anyone else who wants to read them can do so.

He has an opinion and so do I -- Thus, we talk about it.

If you don't like the way I write (or even what I write), then don't read it -- more power to you.

But you can't just expect me to conform to the "Evenwolf School of Replying to Threads" just because you don't like my methods.

And on another topic, why do this here and now?

This thread is supposed to be about what is wrong with society and problems with the future, as the title says.

Granted, at times I am a bit of social problem, but realistically my impact on society is rather minimal.

Having said that, wouldn't it be better to send me a private message if you have a problem with my writing methods?

[evenatlab]

JUXTAPOSITION

"Listen, Evenwolf, I appreciate you giving me advice on the proper way to argue, but the sad truth is I don't intend on debating for an audience.
My comments are directed to Darth and only Darth, thus the reason I'm replying to him -- anyone else who wants to read them can do so."

"Having said that, wouldn't it be better to send me a private message if you have a problem with my writing methods?"

----------------------------------------------------------
"And on another topic, why do this here and now?"

I haven't been sitting on this for months.  The thought arrived the moment I read your latest batch of posts. Therefore my critique arrived in text shortly afterwards.  I am not an embodiment of the "DG posts like an asshole club", simply someone who had an opinion and didn't feel like letting it build up.  Yes, my opinion was something outside of the topic but I hope you appreciate that I did not start a new thread- as I deemed unneccessary

"at times I am a bit of social problem, but realistically my impact on society is rather minimal."

Whereas I am trying to restore social order for all society???

[Las Naranjas]

Discussing by going through quote by quote of another's post comes accross as very aggressive, and it's a barrier to open discussion, since it seems to be a method of shutting down another's view rather than explaining your own.
It also seems, to use Even's phrase, like nit picking. I think it's preferable to give a wholistic expression of your viewpoint, and within that explain waht leads them to differ on specific points that you might find in their posts.

Quoting line by line really puts me off talking to someone if they do it to me. Leave that for those stupid debating things where people have to argue a point with 3 speakers and all that rubbish. The small minded can be attracted to that and be left there whilst the rest of us, who actually want to explore an issue or topic rather than spewing rhetoric and sophistries can actually talk and listen rather than endlessly rebut.

[DGMacphee]

Even, in regards to your JUXTAPOSITION, My replies fit the context of this thread.

I said drop me a PM because a thread about popular culture destroying the fabric of society isn't the best place to condemn my replying style.

Or if you prefer, start a new thread on it -- we can all discuss whether I'm arguing for the sake of arguing and how we can better my replying style. (Though, I think that's a little extreme, but I'm up for it).

As for the "at times I am a bit of social problem, but realistically my impact on society is rather minimal", it was a joke -- a self-deprecating one too. It wasn't directed at you, it was directed at myself.


And Narangas: I can't debate the asthetical nature of my reply method -- I'm writing it and other people read it. So, really, I know nothing about how I come across.

But my style is my style -- It's how I've been writing here for the last two years or so.

If it sounds agressive and "nitpickish", then that's how it goes I guess (though unintentionally) -- When I read a sentence from someone and see a point (or a joke) to be made, I reply.

It's easy for me the way I do it, and do not mean to isolate other readers.

The thing is, everyone has a style.

Some write long labourous paragraphs of text, other write a few lines.

Some use long, wanky words, others use short, lazy words.

Some don't even punctuate properly.

Some don't log-in to post.

But isn't that what being a community is all about?

[evenwolf]

Communities also like to gripe at eachother and use circle explanations.

*nudge nudge*

This is not a jab, but are you saying that you can only take in pieces of writing line by line rather than as a whole?  Because if so, I'll drop this whole thing right now.  Afterall, I am leaving the computer lab!

Ah, but I love ya.



p.s. Peter: you cannot honestly think saying so will make it happen.  People are holding convictions and all that junk. They will surely speak.  Besides, who are you?  

[Peter Thomas]

Okay.....

now this is becoming personal for some....

The only comment I have to DG is what evenatlab alread posted. If you're aiming at one person, send a pm.

But at the same time, I think it's a little silly that people feel they have to logout before they can post. As long as you don't live in Australia, I don't think DG's gonna waste his time hunting for you....

So there. The debate has ended.

This post can now die, despite the fact that I just bumped it...

D'oh...

[Las Naranjas]

Quite simply, whether you are aggressive or not, the style still comes accross that way.

If in real life, I did not look in peoples eyes when I talked to them, they may think I'm distrustful. That may be untrue, but I should understand that if that's my style that's the impression I will convey, and should I want to communicate better, that style may need to change.

Whether you are aggressive or not, if your style conveys that impression when you don't want to, it is a flaw in your comuunicative skills.

Unless you want to alienate people and antagonise them, I suggest changing your style, because as it stands that's what it does, and as a communicative measure it is very poor for that.

As a journalism student, do you want to end up doing interviews for Today Tonight or 4 Corners and the 7:30 report?

[DGMacphee]

Actually, I want to do radio.  

Narangas, if I have a fault in my communication, then so be it -- I wasn't born with a roadmap on how to be an excellent communicator.

I mean, my communication skill are just as flawed as anyone else's here.

Even yours.

he only comment I have to DG is what evenatlab alread posted. If you're aiming at one person, send a pm.

But my comments fit the context of the thread.

This last page doesn't.

[Nacho]

I went to bed when the first misterious poster posted, now I see it's grown   It was kinda disturbing because I'm sure that DG does not really care about who he/she is, but some people would, and some evidences aim to me...  

So, misterious poster... Log on! DG does not bite, having fights regullary is healthy, and the "excuse me" period that comes after is lovely!  

P.S: There is an evidence that I'm not the misterious poster... I can't write that well!  

"Words Farlander does not have a slightly idea of what do they mean:
-Vicariously.
-Rant"

[Las Naranjas]

But I am posting for an audience, I want everyone to read this because it has a certain universality.

[DGMacphee]

But people can still have communication flaws that can alienate certain members of a collective.

EDIT: I'm taking leave now cause this thread has climbed close to the 100 post mark and we're talking about something that's miles away the original topic.

That and I need an afternoon nap.