how far is too far...

EchosofNezhyt · Tue 03/07/2012 16:21:02

Quote from: Vince Twelve on Tue 03/07/2012 16:07:45
A Serbian film

Quote
A Serbian film

I'm curious now... Was it worse then the human Centipede 2?

Anian · Tue 03/07/2012 16:43:43

There was a discussion about this before.
As WHAM said, make sure you have a reason for crossing lines and showing stuff that's edgy. Personally, from what I've read, I wouldn't watch the Serbian film because it's annoying and basically things feel forced to violence to make it brutal and I just don't want to watch that, not because I'm disgusted, but because I just really don't wish to spend my time like that.
It also doesn't show creativity - making things scary without showing them always has a better effect, because instead of disgust you get pure scare and nervousness. Watching a guy take a saw in his hand and showing his hand in a cuff, stuck to a radiator and then something like scream and change of scene, gives far cleaner feelings and dread than actually showing how the hand is sawed through.

There's a good example, I also mentioned before, like Gilliam's movie Tideland (the book is weird as well) where there's a point to everything and everything scary, weird and sick for a reason and has a point. A lot of Palahniuk stories are like that as well. Use extreme things as spice not as the main ingredient and you'll get a much better response from people.

selmiak · Wed 04/07/2012 22:21:28

Quoteif you develope a game that is meant to be provocative, how far can you go before you cross the line?

if you want to be provocative you have to cross a line. Where would be the provocation for anybody if you just redid stuff done a thousand times before. And once you crossed the line you will see how far you will go from there.

About a serbian film, this is a stupid film, just a collage of weird and ugly sexscenes. But not as bad as all the august underground films or slaughtered vomit dolls. Well, after all this sick shit I was a bit disappointed by the end.

Spoiler

After the main guy did terrible things to his own son and fucked everything else that was in his way and smashed the director guys' head on the ground I expected him to smash this guy's head so hard that there would be a hole in the back of his head and then stick is dick in there too. That would have been a fitting end and somehow funny in the overall sick mood of the film...

[close]

EchosofNezhyt · Wed 04/07/2012 23:07:22

That sounds pretty horrible. But after stuff I've seen the internet nothing suprises me anymore/grosses me out.

As for how far is two far, When your only crossing the line to push the limits not for a story reason.
People who say social experiment this and that always sounds kinda lazy to me.
I'm all for a dark story but theres so many ways to express and get reactions and people to feel emotion then going to an extreme.
Horror genre seems to do this alot imo.

amateurhour · Thu 05/07/2012 01:34:18

For me "too far" is when a director takes a left turn and lets the villain get away with it just to fuck with the audience and say, "well, you guys didn't see that coming, see this is secretly a message about how we're desensitized to violence and root for the hero and everything has to happy ending BUT MY MOVIE DOESN'T!"

Like, an example where it's done right is Natural Born Killers, an example where it's done wrong is Funny Games. I hated that movie, and not just for the fourth wall breaking, but just in general. It didn't make me think, it just pissed me off, which is what the director said his intentions were. I think if you're making a movie just to piss people off (i.e. Human Centipede 2, the first was actually enjoyable) then you're doing it wrong.

Then again, I'm not a director, so whatever, to each their own.

Armageddon · Thu 05/07/2012 02:11:42

I actually I rather like when directors do that well, watch Gran Torino. It also had a lot of racism that poked fun at how politically correct America has become, people make a big deal out of everything. Just do what everyone else said, don't be offensive jut for the sake of it, make sure your story fits like Indigo Prophecy or Heavy Rain.

EchosofNezhyt · Thu 05/07/2012 02:17:28

Quote from: Armageddon on Thu 05/07/2012 02:11:42
I actually I rather like when directors do that well, watch Gran Torino. It also had a lot of racism that poked fun at how politically correct America has become, people make a big deal out of everything. Just do what everyone else said, don't be offensive jut for the sake of it, make sure your story fits like Indigo Prophecy or Heavy Rain.

I love indigo prophecy.

steptoe · Thu 05/07/2012 08:24:54

How far is too far?

Good question.

I expect culture may play a role in this as well as other groups.

My views (as an uncivilized westerner):

Generally, whatever you deal with should be true to itself in terms of what you should allow players to see and what THEY expect to see.

If you deal with a violent group then violence is what the players expect, not just a slap on the wrist.

Nudity, well, if it's tastefully done, provocative and true to the story that's fine but showing what could be termed as a 'porno' is I think too far for say AGS. EG: A fat, ugly woman in a nighty beckoning a young lad on could be conceived as 'provocative' yet 'funny'.

The people who love gore should be allowed, if warned, to view it in its true form. In games/films it is all pretend and no one actually gets hurt, most people are not that stupid.

If they WANT to see a guy get chainsawed then let them. An example would be a train going over someone cutting them in 3. If they are warned about the game content then it is their choice whether they play it or not.

Look at Quake, Doom and others like it, you go around blasting enemy brains out!! As in 'Hostel', the viewers who expect gore get gore in spades.

In this day and age the limits have been well pushed forward and not much is taboo, except stuff like rape,incest and bestiality etc.

Forewarned is foretold, they say.

Armageddon · Thu 05/07/2012 09:45:00

A great example of true violence (violence and gore are not the same obviously, I personally think just a small amount of gore can be shocking in it's own way if you don't have any before it) is A Clockwork Orange, everything in that film considered 'offensive' had a reason for being there. It was to explore the dark side of humans, lust, greed, and anger. It was a masterpiece. Something that everyone should watch if you want offensive content not just for the sake of being offensive.

Andail · Thu 05/07/2012 20:01:32

Good post, Armageddon.

EchosofNezhyt · Thu 05/07/2012 20:05:43

Is that movie good? It was looking up a list of the best movies and I ended up watching "One flew over the cuckoo's nest" instead.

amateurhour · Thu 05/07/2012 22:46:39

Personally I think it's overrated compared to modern film standards but for it's time I'm sure it made jaws drop in the theater. Honestly, I'm not a huge fan of Kubrick though. Most of his stuff doesn't appeal to me, and like Tarantino, he's a really talented man who's perpetually short an editor who's not a yes man. (i.e. their films are always like 40 minutes too long)

EchosofNezhyt · Thu 05/07/2012 22:48:44

I'm not a Tarantino fan, Anywho I might have to check it out.

Not to derail the thread (You can pm me.) But does anyone have any recommendations for some movies that are dark?

Perkele2012 · Thu 05/07/2012 23:24:44

Quote from: Frito Master on Thu 05/07/2012 22:48:44
I'm not a Tarantino fan, Anywho I might have to check it out.

Not to derail the thread (You can pm me.) But does anyone have any recommendations for some movies that are dark?

Try martyr if you havent seen it yet, french movie, quite gruesome. Or you could try hierro, a good spanish movie

Ali · Thu 05/07/2012 23:27:42

Not all dark in the same way as the (mostly horrible) films which have been discussed so far, but all concerning violence and suffering:

Old Boy
The Cook, The Thief, His Wife and Her Lover
Naked Lunch
A Touch of Evil
Pigs and Battleships
Sansho the Bailiff
Grave of the Fireflies

EchosofNezhyt · Thu 05/07/2012 23:34:48

I don't mean the horrible shock films, I mean more like good story driven movies that are dark.
Like depressing or around that.

Eric · Thu 05/07/2012 23:38:13

Quote from: Frito Master on Thu 05/07/2012 22:48:44
Not to derail the thread (You can pm me.) But does anyone have any recommendations for some movies that are dark?

I just adjusted my list to take out Grave of Fireflies, and I second all of Ali's other recommendations. Here are some others:

Come and See
Happiness
Bad Lieutenant

Perkele2012 · Thu 05/07/2012 23:45:10

Quote from: Frito Master on Thu 05/07/2012 23:34:48
I don't mean the horrible shock films, I mean more like good story driven movies that are dark.
Like depressing or around that.

I can recomend both films,martyr is quite shocking but has got quite a story to tell.
Hierro is very dark and depressing.
You should see the orphanage if you havent seen it yet.

EchosofNezhyt · Thu 05/07/2012 23:52:39

Thanks guys.

Edit: I watched the scene from Happiness... That was very awkward.

kconan · Fri 06/07/2012 10:03:23

Quote from: Frito Master on Thu 05/07/2012 22:48:44
Come and See
Happiness

Its funny, I love "Come and See" as much as I disliked "Happiness" (yes I know its critically acclaimed and the director has an impressive overall body of work). The former is one of the best war movies I've ever seen. Everything about "Come and See" was ahead of it's time, especially the use of sound.