London Subway

[nihilyst]

There was an "amateur" video on the news, made by some terrorists, showing, how to create bombs, where to detonate it in a bus to kill as many as possible and some other stuff.

I don't get it, how someone can be such blindfolded by his hatred, his belief or whatsoever. I just don't get it.

My condolences to all, who are involved ...
nihilyst

[Andail]

Terrorism is carried out by persons who take advantage of the desperation of their people. You can't wage wars against it, nor can you refute it by debating over holy scrolls.

I agree. And I would probably extrapolate that some terrorist "foot soldiers" have been brainwashed into believing that what they do is in the name of their religion, without really having exposure to an environment that fosters enough context for them to understand just how insane that is. Does that make sense?

It makes heaps of sense.
I just try to make people focus on large political systems and motions rather than bad/good people, or bad/good religions.

I see it like:
Centuries of colonialism constitutes horrible living conditions, no resources, food, etc
which leads to ->
extreme poverty, low education
which leads to ->
people more receptive to brainwashing by fanatics
which leads to ->
terrorists, which will focus on their malefactors

the way certain people see it:
Bad people residing in strange far away countries want to commit evil crimes for no reasons.

[passer-by]

I see it like:
Centuries of colonialism constitutes horrible living conditions, no resources, food, etc
which leads to ->
extreme poverty, low education
which leads to ->
people more receptive to brainwashing by fanatics
which leads to ->
terrorists, which will focus on their malefactors

I think I can see your point, but your phrasing indicates (to me, at least ) certain regions of the world, the usual suspects. I find it disturbing, because what we call "terrorism" may occur everywhere , for various reasons and it's almost purely political (or financial?), while religion is used to make the hesitant ones follow. I don't think blasts in large scale and the like are the only means these people use.

[Sylpher]

As far as I understand it, and please excuse my generalities here, there is an endless loop going on. To help those who are just up in arms confused how something like this can happen it is as simple, and at the same time complex, as eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.

Innocent people were killed in 9/11, and I would guess innocent people before 9/11 have died...  Don't let too many people know. When people [stereotypical American] hear of innocent people killed in Iraq (Iraq having had little to do with 9/11, but this is beside the point) they are able to dull down the information because it is justified for the innocent people lost in 9/11. Likewise, people responsible for things like this feel it is justifiable to kill innocent people (And not government organizations) because that is how they have found to strike back against attacks on their hospitals, use of illegal weapons and other such wonderful things America and its allies find justification for using.

I am not going to pretend one side is ultimately right. I think what happened today is terrible. 9/11 was terrible, bombing hospitals and sniping ambulances is terrible, bombing crowded subways is terrible... It is all terrible, and in the end… very few are completely innocent in someones eyes. (No, not God... Pay attention!)

[BOYD1981]

Something I find rather bizarre about today is that there has actually been less media coverage than when Diana died.

On that day in 1997, radio stations stopped playing pop music and just played sad tunes, TV was non-stop coverage of her death, people were openly crying in the streets, it was crazy.

Today, radio stations continued playing their normal music, TV has had some interruption for news coverage but not too much, and ordinary people continued to go about their daily business.

Yet which of the two events was more important: one person dying in a car crash, or several people being killed and injured by terrorist bombs? Completely bizarre.

tv coverage is exactly what the terrorists want, the more they get the more impact their acts have, it's also good for news stations because it means they get higher ratings and more money from their affiliates.
the best thing the media can do in a situation like this is to not just film panic and chaos that will scare us about what MIGHT happen instead of informing us about what HAS happened.
as for the religious side of it all and the whole "eye for an eye" argument and "ooh they've had it worse and it's just desserts" stuff i just want to say it's pathetic, i am a great believer in revenge but those people most definitely aren't taking revenge on the people repsonsible for their "suffering" over the years: the church and organised religious masses that all hate one another for no reason other than that their beliefs are a different version of the events that really happened from which religions were derived.
but apart from all that i hope that dave gilbert turns up safe.

[Anarcho]

My sincerest condolences to everyone in London...I heard about this when I woke up and immediately thought about all you Britteneers.  This is a terrible tragedy.  However, I appreciate the sentiment that we need to address WHY people are doing these things, instead of just bombing their countries into oblivian.

Let's hope Dave is ok, I'm sure he's fine.  Hopefully everyone will check in real soon.

-Logan

[Sylpher]

If you are referring to my post as pathetic, BOYD, I believe you misinterpreted what I was saying.

[BerserkerTails]

Talking to Dave right now. He's okay everyone.

[Privateer Puddin']

awesome news

[BOYD1981]

If you are referring to my post as pathetic, BOYD, I believe you misinterpreted what I was saying.

i wasn't really referring to anybody's post, just the general attitudes towards trying to justify or injustify and things that are said after a seemingly religiously motivated attack like this.
like i said, i believe in revenge but only on those people responsible, which if you think about it is pretty impossible as the people responsible for all the bad stuff of back then are now dead as are the people that went through it.

[Dave Gilbert]

Holy freaking CROW.  Talk about Ignorance at 10,000 feet. 

Who knew that while I was watching Daffy Duck cartoons on the airplane TV (hey, it was either that or "Ice Princess"), there was utter pandemoneoum down below.  My family was freaking out and instigating a worldwide dragnet for news.  I arrived in NYC totally unaware of what was going on, and when I found out I felt sick to my stomach.

I honestly don't know what to say right now.  I was a witness to the 9/11 tragedy, and I wish that you Brits didn't have to go through this now as well.  A terrorist attack, no matter how big or small, is always horrible because it is so unexpected and it always affects innocents.  It leaves you feeling vulnerable, exposed, and scared.  I can't even begin to understand the mindset behind such attacks.  I am only reminded of something I read once in an editorial: "The attacks will stop when they realize they love their children more than they hate others."  Of course it's never that simple, but it is a sad, sad age we live in when people will gleefully sacrifice themselves and their family to kill innocents bystanders who didn't harm anyone. 

I hope this won't turn into a political discussion.  Leave that to the polititians.  As of now, know that my thoughts and prayers are with you all. 

[chapter11studios]

Who knew that while I was watching Daffy Duck cartoons on the airplane TV (hey, it was either that or "Ice Princess"), there was utter pandemoneoum down below.Ã, 

Wait, what's wrong with "Ice Princess"?

[Chicky]

Great to see you're safe Dave. Out of all the people i knew going to/in London you were the last left to check in uninjured. I feel as usual that the media coverage has really tried to blown things out of proportion, they seek the most distressed person to interview and show the most graphic images on television to simply win by shock factor. Which ultimately gets people a lot more worried about the situation and causes grief. I know it's important to bring people the news and help people realise how important these things are, but you'd think that they could do it with a little more respect.

Also, it was just quality sig material. I hope you don't mind scotch.

[Kinoko]

Phew, so everyone's accounted for. I never realised how many people I knew in London until this happened and now I've been wondering and waiting for word from all sorts of people. Glad you're all okay!

[TheYak]

I heard the news this morning.  My deepest sympathy to the victims and their families. I do, however, admire the way Londoners have responded to the attack.  The response plan was executed, people remained calm (as possible, considering the circumstances), and the situation is being dealt with in a very collected manner.  TV coverage aside, this reaction is their greatest asset.  The only reason for attack against civilians to to instill fear in the populous, not giving them that reaction doesn't repair damage from the attack but does make their attack essentially worthless (as regarding their cause).

From an American viewpoint, I've always viewed Britain as a sibling and today, my brother has made me proud.  Since we've little control over our government's or military's response to events like these, we should take a long look at the people actually affected.  In this case, I think it's far more encouraging than any governmental response we've seen in the days since 9/11/01.

Ken Livingstone (the mayor), regardless of what the population's thought of him concerning other policies, gave an excellent oration - one that is more apt to give courage and pride in one's country than a speech that feeds the terror in the people's heart and provokes anger and hatred.

[Mr Flibble]

I think its commendable how Londoners are trying to carry on as normal today. I think the phrase Mr Blair used was "business as usual".
Whilst at first this may seem disrespectful to those who have lost loved ones, letting something like this cause a big wave is like letting the terrorists win.

I wouldn't have considered this point of view, but when I heard it on the news earlier I thought it was quite profound, since these were the words of a commuter as he stepped of a train.

Glad to see Dave is alright.

[Nikolas]

I can't believe it.

I used to live in Athens (Greece), where nothing really happens. Almost nobody gets hurt with terrorist (as far as I now) and we had one or two casualties at a time. Not this thing. This goes far beyond control.
Just like that killing 37, 1000, 3000 people (9/11), I just can't believe it.
Where are we standing now?
(My wife, who is 5 months pregnant was in the TUBE the time of the bombs, near Earls Court...)

What's the next step?

I don't know, really. I have the impression that there's gonna be another war against terrorists... (who always happen to be Arabs).

Just a pointer: Arabs extend to a lot of countries, most of which are really just friendly (at least to us UNAN). I've been in SYRIA and TYNISIE and they're just great.

The whole idea about this post is one (after a long way):
Do not be afraid! There is a lot of fear going round, and it comes from the news or from CNN (I don't know exactly, and I don't want to be misinterpreted). Of course it's worth living, and of course the people who did this should rot in Hell, in prison, or wherever (I'm avoiding to write that they should die, though). The last thing we need is another war somewhere in the Middle East (where inoccent lifes will be lost, no meatter Iraqi, American, Brittish, Greek or any nation)

NO MORE VIOLENCE!

May God rest the souls of those gone...

[Layabout]

Dave ilbert, and what a freaky coincidence that the mayor when 9/11 happened, Rudolph Guilianni was right near liverpool st station when the first bomb went off yesterday. Good to hear of you blissful ignorance, and that you made it fine.

[m0ds]

Disgusting and horrific, but to say "bound to happen" wasn't on every Englishman's mind would be a lie. Why Blairs speech had to be so similar to Bush's I don't know, but yes - lets not get into politics. Condolences to anyone effected I'm glad you're back, Dave! We were worried, and even moreso was your sister!!

[Ali]

Something I find rather bizarre about today is that there has actually been less media coverage than when Diana died.

In a sense that's not such a bad thing. I think the authorities (including Blair) and particularly the BBC have dealt with the attacks calmly and without hyperbole. This is appropriate to the nature of this attack.

It is not an iconic strike or one designed to kill on a grand scale. It is an attack designed to spread disruption and fear. The best defence is then for us to continue, as far as is possible, with "business as usual".

My hope now is that this attack isnt allowed to disrupt the G8 talks, and doesn't give our leaders the opportunity to sidestep the question of poverty.