New Bible Translation Promotes Fornication

[Gregjazz]

There's plenty of evidence that Christianity is the true. You people just don't want to see it.

'The heavens declare the majesty of the Lord
The skies proclaim the work of his hands.'

God's not going to force you into believing in Him, He's just going to put the evidence before you and let you, of your free will, decide.

[Blackthorne]

There's plenty of evidence that Christianity is the true. You people just don't want to see it.

'The heavens declare the majesty of the Lord
The skies proclaim the work of his hands.'

God's not going to force you into believing in Him, He's just going to put the evidence before you and let you, of your free will, decide.

Oh BLAH BLAH BLAH!

Like there isn't other planets with other skies........

God..... it's such an egocentric human construct..... it's so selfish.  The creator, a diety, may or may not exist, but we certainly created 'GOD' so we wouldn't feel so damn lonley and small in the universe.... I mean, shit, up until 500 years ago it was FACT that WE were the center of the universe.....

Bt

[LGM]

And it was also FACT the Earth was flat...

Every questionable theory in science now are "FACTS" cause nothing has come around to disprove them yet.. So maybe in 400 years, something will come along to disprove all these theories..

But nothing more than other theories have come along to disprove anything in the Bible yet.. unless I'm mistaking.

[Gregjazz]

God..... it's such an egocentric human construct..... it's so selfish.

Isn't the existence of God just the opposite of being selfish, though?

You also assume that God is manmade. There are other gods that are manmade, including Buddha, Allah, etc., but the reason man created them is because we seek religion.

Everyone has a God-shaped hole in his heart.

And Blackthorne, don't think that you're "not religious" or anything. Being "not religious" is your religion.

[remixor]

Threads like this make me sad. 

[Babar]

what is the point of fighting about this? I know that "Making someone see the light" may be a "noble mission", but the people here who will not care about any of that. And there is no need to make God jokes that provoke that behaviour just because they are god jokes

[DGMacphee]

I'm going to repeat my message from the first page of this thread so that all people, both Christian, Atheist, Buddhist, Jewish, whatever, can take note:

CHILL OUT!

I mean, what exactly are we trying to prove here? God does exist? God doesn't exist? Both are pretty much impossible to prove.

So, quit with the lines like "God..... it's such an egocentric human construct..... it's so selfish" or "don't think that you're "not religious" or anything. Being "not religious" is your religion." It's just pretty much provoking each other.

Have a serious discussion, yes. But quit with the taunting.

Listen, is anyone here is REALLY that desperate to prove or disprove the existence of God? Okay. Borrow a pistol off an NRA buddy and plug one in your skull. Then find out what you need to know, posses the body of Patrick Swayze and come tell me your findings. I expect a 30-page written report. In triplicate!

[Peter Thomas]

Thank-you, DG.

I could not agree more.

On a slightly defensive note, I hope I'm not one of these people being labelled a 'god-botherer' (as well as some less attractive terms). I just find it annoying how some people try to turn relgious discussions back on me. ie:

person: God sux0rs and we all know that rain is really god masturbating and then ejaculating all over the earth. Eva heard of da SECOND CUMMING? HAHAHAHA!
me: just so you know, I'm a christian. It doesn't particularly bother me what you post, but just so you don't deliberately try to start provoking me... you have been warned
person: shut up gaybo! I was just joking around! Why do you have to take EVERY SINGLE JOKE and turn it into a f***ing religious debate, dickbag. I don't want to hear your religious crap so don't force me to listen!
me: as long as you don't force me to listen to potentially-offending material of your own.
person: God will let you rot in hell you ball-sucker.
me: um... that's nice.

but yes, anyway, back on topic. Thank you dg. Discussion closed

[PaulSC]

I think religious discussions are fun and often quite interesting - nothing to get upset about, as long as people are fairly polite. To be honest, it kind of gets on my nerves when people try to stop discussions just because they don't like people discussing certain subjects. 'Course, if you think we're getting too off topic I suppose that's fair enough - I suppose we could always start a proper religious discussion thread for people who want to talk about it?

You also assume that God is manmade. There are other gods that are manmade, including Buddha, Allah, etc., but the reason man created them is because we seek religion.

Everyone has a God-shaped hole in his heart.

*sigh* Unless you can show otherwise, you have exactly the same amount of objective evidence to prove your god as they have to prove theirs, and that amount is this: zero. I heard a good saying recently that fits here pretty nicely: "If you can tell me why you dismiss all other gods, I'll tell you why I dismiss yours".

Just a little thing: Christians place the bible at the centre of their belief system, but the funny thing is how small a part the bible truly plays in their beliefs. If the bible was truly an accurate guide on how to lead an objectively 'good' life and find salvation, then *anyone* could read it and understand perfectly, and all Christians would have identical values. Instead, every Christian has a slightly different interpretation - every Christian is effectively a denomination unto themselves, *unless* they choose to abandon their own interpretation and follow someone else's. If a person has enough influence to convince a lot of other Christians to follow their particular interpretation, then lo! You've got yourself yet another new branch of Christianity.

The bible is like a blank slate that can be twisted to fit almost any persons personal beliefs if they really want it to, and so despite what they like to think, Christianity isn't doing a terribly good job of showing people the 'true path' – they're as conflicted as anybody! You've got Christians who hate homosexuals, Christians who *are* homosexuals, Christians who think money is the root of all evil, Christians who think Jesus would be a capitalist, Christians who think the Iraq war was wrong, Christians who think the Iraq war was right etc etc etc, and EVERY ONE of them believes they're the ones who got everything right and are going to heaven. Ha!

In summary: The nature of your religious beliefs has every bit as much to do with your cultural background and upbringing as it has with that divinely inspired little book. After all, it's a good bet that your average church in the middle ages would be happy to condemn just about every modern Christian to hell for being sinful monsters. In fact, just reading an English bible translation would probably be more then enough to condemn you to the good old 'lake of fire'. But of course, modern Christians don't care about that- after all, they're the ones who've got the whole "how to get to heaven" thing 100% right, right?

[Blackthorne]

God..... it's such an egocentric human construct..... it's so selfish.

Everyone has a God-shaped hole in his heart.

And Blackthorne, don't think that you're "not religious" or anything. Being "not religious" is your religion.

G,

   I appreciate the fact that in spite of it all, you are trying to do good, and believe in something.  I however, do not have a God Shaped hole in my heart.  I am comfortable with my own existance simply for what it is; I need no esoteric spirtiual reasons for my existance.  I just am, and I'm happy that way.  I love life, I love the people in it.  I don't need some silly belief in a diety to make my life feel more complete.  But that's just me - I'm content with simply living, needing no greater reason than that.  I don't crusade the anti-religion crusade, unless it's in my face or there is forum to discuss it.  I wouldn't run into a crowd, shout "All you God worshipping nuts IS crazy!!!!!!".  Truly deep spirtualism, for me, comes from being human.  Simply. I also agree, DG, that chilling out is a good idea.  Proving or disproving God's existance IS futile; it's a personal matter.  So, I won't tell you he doesn't exist if you don't tell me he does.  Perhaps we should ALL remember we are people, and that we should care and be courteous to one another.

Bt

[Gregjazz]

God..... it's such an egocentric human construct..... it's so selfish.

Everyone has a God-shaped hole in his heart.

And Blackthorne, don't think that you're "not religious" or anything. Being "not religious" is your religion.

G,

Ã,  Ã, I appreciate the fact that in spite of it all, you are trying to do good, and believe in something.Ã,  I however, do not have a God Shaped hole in my heart.Ã,  I am comfortable with my own existance simply for what it is; I need no esoteric spirtiual reasons for my existance.Ã,  I just am, and I'm happy that way.Ã,  I love life, I love the people in it.Ã,  I don't need some silly belief in a diety to make my life feel more complete.Ã,  But that's just me - I'm content with simply living, needing no greater reason than that.Ã,  I don't crusade the anti-religion crusade, unless it's in my face or there is forum to discuss it.Ã,  I wouldn't run into a crowd, shout "All you God worshipping nuts IS crazy!!!!!!".Ã,  Truly deep spirtualism, for me, comes from being human.Ã,  Simply. I also agree, DG, that chilling out is a good idea.Ã,  Proving or disproving God's existance IS futile; it's a personal matter.Ã,  So, I won't tell you he doesn't exist if you don't tell me he does.Ã,  Perhaps we should ALL remember we are people, and that we should care and be courteous to one another.

Bt

Don't get me wrong, though. I'm not trying to "force my beliefs on you". I'm merely presenting possibilities for you to consider. I want to let you come to your own conclusion whether God exists or not, but you must be open-minded enough to consider what I say.

Everyone has a God, by the way. Your God could be not believing in God -- atheism. That's your religion.

I'm glad for you that you are content with your beliefs. So you're completely happy? Completely at peace?

[makri]

Everyone has a God, by the way. Your God could be not believing in God -- atheism. That's your religion.

Not exactly. An agnostic doesn't have such "god" - not one of believing any more than of non-believing.

[KingBagel]

I've not been here for long, and my opinion probably means nothing to anybody, but reading through this discussion, I'd just like to say a few really fast things.

If you believe in God, then you do. If you don't believe in God, then you don't. I do. And I believe that we all have our own free will to decide. I believe that God created us with this free will.

You have the power to accept or reject God. If you reject Him and eventually change your opinions and start to gain an interest in Him, then you can make that change. If you believe in God and for some reason, want to convert to athiesm, then you can make that change. It's what free will is all about. There's no need to bash each other. (In fact, on a side note, it's sort of pointless to bash a Christian, what with the whole bit about Beattitudes and martyrdom, don'tcha think?)

What it boils down to for me, is this: if God doesn't exist, when I die, I lose nothing. But if I was an athiest, and if God does exist, then when I die I lose it all. What do you have to lose in Christianity? I don't know, and I don't expect an answer -- rhetorical question. I've never understood why anybody WOULDN'T want grace, but that's just my personal opinion. Again, free will -- I'm sure all athiests, agnostics, and non-Christians here have a reasoning, but personally, I'd rather be happy while I'm here with God. And if I am wrong and there is no God, how will I know? I'll die and that'll be it. At least I had peace while I was alive.

Okay, I said a few really fast things, but this got kinda drawn out. I don't mean to offend anybody, and I don't think I did -- at least I hope not. It's just all a matter of what we each want to believe. Just be happy while you're here; the world's about to end in twelve minutes.

Here, have a few pints.

[makri]

What it boils down to for me, is this: if God doesn't exist, when I die, I lose nothing. But if I was an athiest, and if God does exist, then when I die I lose it all. What do you have to lose in Christianity?

There's thousands of other religions too. What if they're right? You'd be damned for not believing in their teachings (or, worshipping a false god). Even if one of all the religions would happen to be right, you have tiny little chance of choosing the correct one.

The world isn't filled with just christians and atheists.

[KingBagel]

I never said they were the only two religions out there. But what can you gain if you believe in nothing? That's my whole point.

[makri]

But what can you gain if you believe in nothing? That's my whole point.

Personally, not having to build my world on absolute truths of religion or science gives me a peace of mind . As for afterlife gambling, you probably don't lose anything by taking your chances with one specific religion. Then again, maybe, say, Allah exists and lets in (the paradise) those who didn't deny him, muslims and agnostics.

In the end, we choose to believe whatever we need to believe in order to make sense of life, universe and everything. For some people it's some religion, for some it's science. And then there's some who don't have the need to believe either way.

As for the original topic, I think promoting fornication is always a great thing, whether it's in the bible or whereever.

[Gregjazz]

Yes, there are millions of religions out there, so you ask the question, "how can I know which one is true?" (following KingBagel's logic where it's pointless to not believe in some sort of God)

I incourage you -- if God exists, He will answer your prayers.

[PaulSC]

Here's a little challenge for the religious:

Place yourself in the position of an objective agnostic - a person with no biases for or against any particular religion or religious organisation. Then, try to build up a case for why your personal favourite religion is a more credible proposition then any other. Make sure every piece of evidence stands up in comparison to corresponding evidence from other religions (e.g. citing subjective religious experiences as evidence will not necessarily count, as such experiences have been shown to occur almost equally throughout members of all religions – and even regularly among the non-religious - only the interpretation tends to change).

Until religious people can do this, they should lose all privileges for suggesting people of other beliefs are wrong or irrational, in my view.

[SSH]

PaulSC, ditto try and prove there isn't a god. You can't prove it either way. If someone did PROVE it then all religions would just disappear. It's not about proof, don't you get it.

However, there is still such a thing as evidence. I can cite as evidence that God answered my prayer on such-and-such a thing. You may belive that that is just a coincidence, or I'm lying, or whatever, but it's still evidence.  The dictioanry says enidevce is "Something indicative; an outward sign". It doesn't mean it is proof. Don't get the two confused.

NB my point is linguistic rathern than relgious, here

[shbaz]

Don't get me wrong, though. I'm not trying to "force my beliefs on you". I'm merely presenting possibilities for you to consider. I want to let you come to your own conclusion whether God exists or not, but you must be open-minded enough to consider what I say.

Everyone has a God, by the way. Your God could be not believing in God -- atheism. That's your religion.

I'm glad for you that you are content with your beliefs. So you're completely happy? Completely at peace?

Haha, so my god is having no god? Exactly how do you come by that logic? I never did really understand that. The problem is that you have little or no understanding of exactly what science is and how it works. It isn't a belief system, and scientists don't believe in every theory there is. They're theories, which have possibilities of being true, and if they are proven beyond a doubt then they cease to be theories. They say, "How did this happen? Well maybe it was this.. or this.."

The very definition of atheism is the lack of belief in a deity. ANY diety. That means no god whatsoever, no worshipping satan, no worshipping god.

I don't have a credit card either, so I guess my credit card is not having a credit card.