What happened to the effort of playing?

[GarageGothic]

Some days ago, I opened my Indy 3 box and found, along with the disks and the manual, some folded paper sheets with my handdrawn maps of the catacombs. It was a very nostalgic experience. I remember, back in the day, when I made notes, drew maps and kept lists of locations with unsolved puzzles. Some of them still exist, like my maps of the QFG 1 and 4 forests and that nasty bamboo maze for LSL3, while others got lost somewhere along the way, such as my endless amount of Manhunter notes, all the names and clues I scribbled on the back of the photocopied manual pages (ah yes, the days of copy protection schemes ), or how about those licence plates and telephone numbers from PQ1 (did anyone actually use the in-game notepad?).

These days, when I play games, and somebody mentions a telephone number, a password or a name, I expect the game to record it for me. Not for a second do I consider writing it down. That's not how things are done anymore. (Of course, not recording an important phone number or password should never lead to walking deads. The player should be able to return to find the information - but isn't it more satisfying to actually make the connection yourself, than running around with the number on a piece of paper in your inventory?) Some games keep dialog transcripts, others use a journal to keep track of events (to be honest, I rarely use these features, as I complete most modern adventures in a couple of days, but they have become the standard). And this is a good thing, isn't it? Isn't it?

I started to think about why I am so disappointed with nearly every adventure game coming out these days. Either there is no challenge you just go through them in less than 10 hours, or you get frustrated with the absurd puzzles, download a walkthrough and go through the game in even less time (Syberia and Post Mortem are examples of these two experiences). Either it's a breeze or it's impossible. There's just no in-between.
Point-n-click may be to blame for some of the problem. Instead of finding out what to ask npcs about, you just click through the lists. My feeling is that you no longer pay attention to what's being said, because you're really just going through the options, hoping to trigger the next part of the game. Rather than actually observing and deducing, you stumble upon the solution by random. Is this why Myst style "logic"-puzzles have become so popular with game designers, because they are nearly impossible to solve unless you "get it"?

Has it become too easy to play games?

Should we, instead of simplifying interfaces and reducing the amount of work for the player, demand even more of an effort? To expand the process of playing outside the scope of the screen?

[Lucky]

I have loads of old notes as well, it's always so fun to find them, even when I don't remember what game they're from. : (I still have a little notebook full of Laura Bow 2 notes, and I still haven't beaten it. But, maybe someday...)

Unfortunately you're right. Making notes isn't useful anymore. Although I've always thought that popularity of Myst-style puzzles is due to Myst's popularity.

BTW, is making notes going to be useful in Shadowplay, if I may ask?

[GarageGothic]

(I still have a little notebook full of Laura Bow 2 notes, and I still haven't beaten it. But, maybe someday...)

Oh my god, yes, THAT was one game that required notes. As I recall you had to scribble down a whole hieroglyphic alphabet to be able to answer a riddle in the end.

BTW, is making notes going to be useful in Shadowplay, if I may ask?

Hehe, you saw right through me, didn't you . Yes, that was one of my motives for bringing this up, actually. I'm still trying to determine HOW much to aid the player in keeping track on the research. I think Shadowplay is one game that SHOULD really be played with notes, because it adds so much to the feeling of being a detective yourself (the first Laura Bow game actually came with a notepad and pencil in the box!) But on the other hand I don't want to alienate players who doesn't keep notes by making it too information heavy.
Currently, the only player aid in Shadowplay is Dinah's personal planner/diary where she notes tasks and appointments for that specific day. It's more or less like those "mission goals" screens in games like Medal of Honor, only better integrated with the game world. I'm working on a system for storage of clues that are no longer relevant, and thus need not fill up the inventory, but which the player might want to review. Some kind of scrapbook or something similar. I've also developed a system where Dinah summarizes longer texts, bringing up the main clues, for those players who don't want to read everything.

[Hobbes]

In spite of repeating myself, I applaud GK1 in this regard. Give the player a piece of a phonebook, and let him figure the rest out for himself.

Or, give Gabriel his notebook, the voodoo-code, etc. These puzzles were very intriguing. You had the stuff you needed in your inventory, but you still had to put all the clues together yourself.

I never forgot the day I played Day of the Tentacle and saw Dr. Fred open the safe. There were numbers sailing past and in my haste I penned them all down. However, later I learned that DoTT remembered the code for itself. I was very pleased with this.

So, my point is, I guess: Keep the notes stuff and all that in the player's inventory, but design your puzzles in such a way that there is still lots of thinking required to make it "click". And keep it logical.


Secondly, on the topic of modern game-conversations. True, it's mostly a click-fest nowadays. Just exhaust your options and you're done. In Buccaneer I tried to do this a bit differently. The outcome of each conversation is still the same, but at 2 moment (the first, when Richard talks to Margareth once he's out of his office; and the second, when Richard lures Edward Fish outside), I had the conversations branched. This gave the player a choice in how Richard would react to the NPC's. True, the same information is brought across, but in my opinion it increases the involvement of the player.

I hope I made *some* sense here.

[Trapezoid]

The problem is, this sort of thing doesn't suit itself to certain styles of games. Mostly Sierra's style, actually. You don't have to write much down in LucasArts games, but the puzzles are intricate enough and the story is fleshed out enough to make the game last and keep your interest. Their puzzles were still challenging, but never quite hang you up-- if you can't figure out one puzzle, there's usually a few other puzzles available that you can wander between.

[Dave Gilbert]

Can we say Discworld Noir?  That game used the note-taking device in a brilliant way.  Your notes could be used on inventory items.  So the game kept track of all important clues in your investigation, but it was up to the player to figure out what the clues meant.

Gosh I love that game.  I'd play it again if I could get it to work on Windows XP...

-Dave

[remixor]

To this day, I still instinctively whip out a piece of paper and a pencil when I find important clues in adventure games.  When I invariably discover I actually didn't need to at all, I'm always disappointed.



DG: DW Noir was awesome, in large part due to the element you mentioned.  What problems have you had with XP?  I played it all the way through on XP last year.  The only problem was that you cannot load a game immediately.  Every time you want to restore a game, you must start a new game (just skip all the intro cutscenes) and THEN load.  If you don't do this, the game will crash.  Hopefully, this is the problem you're having, since it's an easy workaround.  Good luck.

[MillsJROSS]

I still write down tidbits of info that I think will be important.

There is an easy solution if you want players to take notes or not. Give the player the option between easy or hard in the begining of the game that set a globalint.

-MillsJROSS

[Minimi]

I remember Sherlock Holmes cases on CD-ROM, I have one cd of it, and it consists of a large adressbook, and alot of movies which are shown when you finish someone. You had to listen carefully and make notes of persons, and dates, so you could find them or relatives of them, or check the newspapers, to find clues. I only finished the mummy's curse... the other 2, I couldn't find. But this is really cool, making notes.

I also made some notes by bladerunner, and I think it would be really cool if you hadn't had to do everything with the mousepointer, but that you DO get stuck when you didn't wrote a number. Only if you go back to the source you find it again. But this also makes programming alot harder, and requires much more effort.

[Rincewind]

I agree with Dave - DWN had a great notebook system, I love the way that you could just use a clue that you had written down and then use it on something around you to get different responses and comments. Sometimes they were helpful, other times just funny.

And yes, it is impossible for me to run it under XP as well - How do you do it, Remixor? (Heck, I can't even get the game to start...)

[Moresco]

Wow.  I don't know about mapping QFG or anything like that, but I had to map games like Eye of the Beholder to hell & back.  Other than those kinds of games, I never wrote anything down.

[Lazy Z]

I also remember making countless notes while playing older games (especially RPG's), and I still do it sometimes, though it's mostly a habitual thing. On the subject, I agree with Hobbes. Keep all the useful things in the player's inventory, so they don't lose any essential information, but integrate this info in a puzzle, so there is a sense of challenge.

Has it become too easy to play games?

I wouldn't say too easy, but most games nowdays are a lot easier than their counterparts from like 10 years ago (I'm currently playing through Zelda: The Wind Waker, and so far it's ridiculously easy...). I guess this has to do with the fact that contemporary games have to appeal to a wider audience, who are not exactly "hardcore" gamers.

[Teh Crabe]

Something also to keep in mind about newer games becoming easier, when you spend millions on artwork and development, you want to make sure customers get to see where all that money went.  Back in the lower budget days, I don't think that was so much a concern.

[ratracer]

If I look at myself I'm ever more often going thru wts, even for easy games. Perhaps I'm becoming dumber or more impatient, but nowadays if I'm stuck for more than 15 minutes, I'll go right to a wt!

That's sad, really, but, yes, nowadays I prefer simpler and easier games! I'm just probably  following the tide...

[Dave Gilbert]

If I look at myself I'm ever more often going thru wts, even for easy games. Perhaps I'm becoming dumber or more impatient, but nowadays if I'm stuck for more than 15 minutes, I'll go right to a wt!

That's sad, really, but, yes, nowadays I prefer simpler and easier games! I'm just probably  following the tide...

You haven't changed, dude.  The world has.  

I often think "Hey, you kids have it so easy!  When I was a kid, I would spent weeks or months on the same puzzle!  If we wanted a hint, we'd have to order a hint book!"  

I didn't get that hint book often, but not because of any willpower on my part.  When you're 12 years old and the only way to get a hint is to beg your parents for their credit card, you only ask if you're REALLY desperate!

Oh, but when when I DID get that hintbook, I would refer to it every 20 minutes until the game was won.  If the hintbook had been there at the very beginning, I probably would have done the same thing.  You would, also!  Look into your heart!  You know it to be true!

Anyway, I wouldn't worry about feeling dumb.  Games are supposed to be fun, right?

[GarageGothic]

Dave, you are so right.

In the old days you could be stuck in a game for months until you came across a hint in some gaming magazine or met somebody who knew the solution. I remember when a friend of a friend of mine used to call me five or six time each night to get hints for some game - was it Codename: Iceman? - which he knew I'd completed. God was that annoying.

As for hintbooks, I bought The Colonel's Bequest and the hintbook for it - I knew I would get stuck otherwise - while on holiday in London. I ended up having read the entire hintbook before even getting home and installing the game

[Captain Mostly]

I can't cope with making maps of games. I think that making so that the player HAS to note things down is appauling game design. BUT I think that it's a brilliant way to add depth to a setting if when you DO make your own notes you can easily find non-essential yet super-cool extras. Blade Runner had a superb clue-remembering system that logged anything that might just be important automatically, including a lot of stuff that never seemed to be of any real use. I guess if people REALLY want to make notes, there ought to be games for them, but I don't think it's healthy.