America

[Kairus]

I'm sorry to bring this topic again, but I've been reading a little lately and I came up with the conclusion that... um... that I was right before...
This was discussed in the thread "not everyone is American... gasp" a few weeks ago, even if the thread was not intended for that means. I stated that I was from South America and I didn't understand why people from the US called themselves after Americans and think the rest of us aren't. I was told that it's because it's the name of their country. Well... that's not true. The name United States of America is not said as United States of Mexico where Mexico is the name of the country, it seems to be more like United American States. That is, the country does not have a proper name, the name shows the condition of being a set of states that are in the American continent.
I also live in a country that doesn't have a proper name, the full name of my country in English would be "Republic Eastern to Uruguay", being Uruguay one of the most important (if not the most) rivers here, but, no one cares about the name, as there are no other people who would like to be called
Uruguayans. The situation is different with the name American, as all people from the American continent should be called like that. In fact, Southamericans do call ourselves Americans all the time (Americanos, as we are Spanish speakers). I have never seen anyone say Americanos to refer to US people exclusively, but sometimes I've seen them been called Norteamericanos (Northamericans should it be in English), despite the fact that Mexicans and Canadians are Northamericans, too, but it's not that common.
To support my point of view, let me tell you that the name America began being used in the XVI century, and the US were first recognized with that name in the XVIII century. So they didn't name the country after America, the name would mean "a set of states that are in America". Therefore, America is not the name of the country and calling the people Americans would be inaccurate, too.
There's no point in discussing this too much because obviously US people and the rest of the English speakers won't stop calling them Americans, but they should remember they're not the only Americans out there and. Even if the name of the continent is quite bad, it's a name we all share.

By the way, there is an interesting text about the name America in Microsoft Encarta (I have the one from '99), as a related link inside the article of Amerigo Vespucci.

[Darth Mandarb]

This is actually a good point!  I've often wondered about the origins of the name.

North and South America are commonly called (or were commonly called) the Americas.  So we became the "United States of [the] America"

But like so many things, after you call it that for so long it takes on it's own meaning.  So tUSA took on the moniker of just America.

Like (in the USA) a quarter is .25 cents.   But it's called that because it's 1/4 of a dollar.  But I would wager a lot of folks don't think of it as 1/4 of a dollar, they think of it as a quarter.

So, when referring to the USA  ...  it's clunky to say, "I'm a UnitedStatesian."  Or, "I'm a UnitedStatesofAmerican" so it was just shortened to "I'm an American."  I mean, it's not like they were gonna change the name of the country right?

That's my guess.

Here's an Interesting Article about how America got it's name.  It's a bit lengthy, but an interesting read.

I wouldn't mind if South Americans and other North Americans called themselves Americans.  But considering the connotation the word 'American' now has, I highly doubt any of them would want to be called that.

[evenwolf]

Interesting, yes but is there a new argument? We talked about this extensively already, however, perhaps some people are fueled up to discuss it again.

"Citizen of the United States of America" is just tiring.

Although I guess I could call myself a United Statesman.

[Darth Mandarb]

Although I wouldn't mind calling myself a United Statesman.

That does sound pretty cool!

I'm a United Statesman.

Of course some would find that sexist ... and insist on 'United Statesperson'.  And then I would punch them.

** sigh **

[TheYak]

I hereby acknowledge that I have had the title of United Statesman bestowed upon me and will bear the title with pride, demonstrating the proper respect and honor towards my new office.  

It's a good point you made, Kairus but you definately pummeled it into the ground.  My assumption has been that nobody would like to be referred to as an American but would prefer to be called by the name of their country.  I had a Russian exchange student awhile back.  Even though it was technically true, she hated to be called Asian.  I'm told by various members of these forums that people from England don't like being referred to as someone from the UK.  And people from the UK don't necessarily like being referred to as Europeans.  So, your insistance on the moniker, "American," is a tad confusing.  I will gladly respect your wishes and greet you as a Fellow American (TM).  

[edit: I feel I should mention that I couldn't care less if they changed the name of our country to The Best Inflatable Raft.  This way, you can ignore my opinion if you're not of my mindset.]

[shbaz]

United Statesman would still be conflicting with United States of Mexico, so essentially that would be changing the name because of a conflict and creating an entirely new one.

What do you think you're right about? Everyone knows what the continents are named. Are you suggesting that we change our name in light of this astonishing discovery? You still can't really say what we should be called. It's meaningless to say we need to start referring to you as an American, because that would envelope the entire two continents and be much too general. There's no government or group of allies linking all of the continents.. no group at all. Just a trade organization in North America. I'm still not going to call myself something else, because there's no justification for it. It seems like the entire basis for people in South America calling themselves American is just a matter of insulting the US by saying, "Hey, your name is meaningless. I'm American too. SO PPPTTTTT!!!" Is there some kind of continental pride that you have? Usually for someone to decide to take great pride in something there needs to be unification, a team, a country, a group of allies, something. The term European is heard so often because of the European Union. You don't hear African or Asian much unless just refferring to race. There's no reason for anyone to change their definition of America.

EDIT: Northa.. typo

[Las Naranjas]

I'm sure the vast majority of the board can recognise, in comparison especially to Darth's and Yak's posts, the the above is atypical of an Estados Unidense response and can be ignored.

On another note, it'd be funny if we called those from the United Arab Emirates Arabs, and the country "Arabia" and then be lost for a term for the greater region and ethnic group.

[shbaz]

It's much easier to ignore than to counter my arguments, isn't it?

If any other country on the continents had the name America in it, it would be an issue. They don't. End of story. Statistics and Poll laws would also dictate that it is illogical to take a 1/3 opinion as the minority based on an input of 3 in such a limited environment. I can assure you that you are quite wrong if you think that most Americans would disagree with me.

I think I should also add that I'd be really surprised if any American on this board genuinely stopped using the term in their day-to-day lives. It seems like more of an idle thought of, "Oh that would be cool," than a genuine agreement.

[TheYak]

We've got the name, does that please you?  Aside from very few protests, it would seem the vast majority doesn't want it.  I'm not sure how you can defend the nomenclature of a country that isn't even sure what it's own nomenclature means.  We are the United States of America.  The average citizen will not be able to tell you what the purpose of naming it that was.  Each State was not meant to be a traditional province but rather a state (which means country).  So, we are the United countries of the continent of America.  Technically, you really ought to call yourself after your particular state and everyone from Canada to South America is an American.

Of course, you're siding with tradition and common speech so you win this one.  I'm not likely to be able to convince half my neighborhood that they're not Americans if people from Brazil aren't as well.  We strive to spread democracy throughout the world when we've actually got a federation.  Even if you ignore the fact that the dictionary's changed since the days of the classical definition of democracy, we haven't exactly lived up to even the common ideals of our credo.  I'm really not going on an American-bashing trip here but I think that we've got far too jingoism around, especially recently.  If you love your country (directed to US-ers of course) then be proud of it for what it is, not what it isn't.  Damn, have I digressed.

[shbaz]

We're a Republic, actually..

I'm not going to feel any happier or sadder if we do or don't have the name, if our country was named differently it wouldn't bother me. As is that's not the case and there's no real justifying reason to complain about the label. It's not just common speech, there's no more logical term for it.

As I mentioned last time, when I mention I'm from Oklahoma most Americans don't even know where it is, most foreigners don't know what I'm talking about because they rightfully don't need to memorize the 50 states in the USA. Since there is one unifying government over the states, we don't lose the label of being a nation anyways.

If you love your country (directed to US-ers of course) then be proud of it for what it is, not what it isn't.

If you truly believe that, I hope you vote. I think it was you who told me you don't.. but I can't be sure. Americans who don't vote are letting a very small percentage control the majority, and you can be sure that many people who do vote do so because they have been strongly brainwashed that Bush is a good president. If you can argue with that.. I guess you didn't listen to the State of the Union and understand how many more lies he told this time than last.

[Las Naranjas]

I sorry buddy, but I couldn't actually find a coherent argument in there. I could see a unreadable mess of a block which did utililise elements like onamatapaea , ptttttt, but despite my best efforts to trawl through what you provided [which I presume many won't, because other elements such as paragraphs are lacking].

Willingly, I will read anything you ahve to say on this issue that you provide in a coherent and readable format which provides something more than "hahahAHA, You ARes just Jealous bEcuase we're in thE US and YOu are STupiD Latin AmERICans ANd Only wnat THe term AmericAN cause WE HaVe TI" [and yes, I utilise hyperbole to show what impression you are giving, whether you actually meant it or not].

So lad, deep breath, calm, for sentences, allow us to understand what you want to say, and we may listen to you.

As of this point I've given you more notice than you warrant, and you cast a pall over your countrymen who have shown that they might think between the actions of reading and typing.

[Darth Mandarb]

Las Naranjas - not to be rude, as you're certainly entitled to your opinions, but your last post was much harder to understand than Jackhammer's  (I'm not taking sides on the issue, I'm just stating my opinon.)  Edit - if English isn't your primary language, please accept my apologies.

I don't understand why people bash Americans.  I mean, it seems to me, that Americans are being bashed for their 'arrogant' attitudes towards the world outside.  Yet the bashing comes across as arrogant itself.

So we're being arrogantly bashed for being arrogant?

That's funny.

Bashing somebody you don't know seems a little foolish.

Bashing somebody simply because they belong to a culture/country you don't like is just ignorant.  It's called stereo-typing.  "Hey, he's an American ... must be a greedy, capitilist, George Bush loving, pig!"

I guess the world is just chock-full of ignorance.  American or other.

But hey, I love all my fellow AGSers ... even if they are a dirty, dirty, foreiner.

])]V[

[Las Naranjas]

Well, a primary point I was making is that Americans, (or Statesmen) weren't being by and large arrogant, especially here, and I was expressing the fact that Jack was the exception, the minority, that seems to cast a bad light over the likes of yourself and yakspit who have proved more thoughful in this instance.

Jack seems to be using a stimulus response method of posting too often at the moment, to his own detriment and others. I attempted initially to be helpful, but soon got sarcastic, but I certainly didn't mean to bash. I've got enough equal disdain for all people to have to take special cases.

And he seemed to want a challenge , "It's much easier to ignore than to counter my arguments, isn't it?", along with the excessively aggressive rhetorical questions in the earlier post. Prior to that post, all parties were discussing. I posted, in hindsight unnecessarily, to ensure that it was recognised that most were being thoughtful, only to be rhetorically challenged to understand a convulted mess of choleric rehtoric, to utilize assonance if I may.

But perhaps my English is too broken, my mastery of the arts of verbatum sorely lacking when it comes to the logorrhea of sophistries that is demanded by lucid debate.

If it is to anyone's aid, I will post all further posts without the use of paragraphs or statements. It seems vogue in the new cradle of what is now the lingua franca to express oneself only in the solid, unbroken and unblemished block of rehtoric.

[Darth Mandarb]

Las - Please accept my apology

I thought you were targetting myself and Yak!

You're alright man ... you know, for an Australian

(you are Austrailian right?)

[DGMacphee]

But perhaps my English is too broken, my mastery of the arts of verbatum sorely lacking when it comes to the logorrhea of sophistries that is demanded by lucid debate.

HAHAHAHAHA -- PWNED!!!  

[Las Naranjas]

hehe, No worries darth.

and I come from the continent Australia, and the country that also assumed a monopoly on the name.

[Trapezoid]

I don't know if it's such a huge problem... I mean...

Someone from Mexico is NORTH AMERICAN and MEXICAN.
Someone from Canada is NORTH AMERICAN and CANADIAN.
Someone from USA is NORTH AMERICAN and, for lack of a better word, AMERICAN.

I don't think it's so bad... So, people in other North or South American countries will have to throw in the "North" or "South" bit to be specific. I can't think of a situation where someone would need to tell someone else "I am from either North or South America" anyway.
Some countries would be HAPPY to never mention what continent they're on...

[evilspacefart]

come on, guys. please don't bash north united states of americans anymore. it makes us sad. sure, the president sucks, but we're nice people.
but if you really want to keep bashing "Americans" then just keep bashing, i can't figure out what the problem is.

[shbaz]

Holy crap Naranjas, I wasn't trying to write a friggin' essay. You're so critical of my grammar skills and you didn't capitalize any letter except for the "A" in "Australia" in your last post... and also for some reason the "N" in "no" which should not have been capitalized at all in the first place. Here's my suggestion:

Since English is supposedly your native language - read my post one sentence at a time, take deep breaths as you do so, and try not to break out into a sweat. Yeah, I'm being sarcastic too. It wasn't that bad.

If I seem like I'm being aggressive, that's because I think it's ridiculous to talk about this any more than it has been. It's such a ludicrously simple thing to understand that it is indesputable.

There is no other term you can name citizens of the United States of America that would be less of a controversy than the term we use now.

I was typing that post fast because I needed to spend some time in the library doing Calculus homework before going to sleep. I have in fact made a B+ in my university level English Comp. class and thus was not required to take the second one. Enough of your nonsense about not being able to understand my post.

I broke this one into paragraphs so maybe you wouldn't get so confused. My apologies for hurting your brain.

Edit: Whoops I missed that you capitalized the "I" as well. Damnit I'm going to sleep.

[evenwolf]

unless you haven't figured it out, Las is a vocabulary elitist. But to his credit, he makes very good detailed points which only 33% of the population will be able to interpret. go las.