3D Studio Max Tutorials?

[LGM]

Yes I'm comparing. It's the same idea.

Grand Theft and Murder both put you in jail..

[Meowster]

That's stupid. That's like comparing murder and theft.

Oh, wait. That's what you just did.

My 'theft', which is what it technically is, I admit... isn't hurting anybody.

If I went out to murder somebody, I would have to acknowledge that I was causing the suffering and subsequent death of a person, as well as the suffering of people he knew and his family. I would have to make a definite conscious decision to take the life of another living being, with massive consequences whether I was caught or not.

You can't compare the two.

[Meowster]

That's stupid. That's like comparing murder and theft.

Oh, wait. That's what you just did.

My 'theft', which is what it technically is, I admit... isn't hurting anybody.

If I went out to murder somebody, I would have to acknowledge that I was causing the suffering and subsequent death of a person, as well as the suffering of people he knew and his family. I would have to make a definite conscious decision to take the life of another living being, with massive consequences whether I was caught or not.

You can't compare the two.

[LGM]

Bah. There's no use in arguing.

Just think of it this way. If and when you apply for a professional job and Computer graphics. What are you gonna tell them about how you learned what you know. You gonna say: "Oh, I learned to model with pirated copies of 3D Studio Max and Maya... Yup.."

Somehow I doubt you'd get the job.

Which is majorly the reason I quit pirating.

[Meowster]

Yes. Because that is going to happen. I am not going to say, "I used to mess around with 3D packages when I was younger and got to know them, and then went into college and did a four year degree course at Ballyfermot" and stuff like this. I am going to say, "I learned to model with pirated copies of 3D studio Max!!!"

Besides which I don't think they'd care. They're not going to employ you because you learned to model with a pirated copy of 3D studio when you were younger? If anything, that shows dedication and a desire to learn. It shows you were deeply interested in these things when you were younger.

Which I am.

[InCreator]

Which is majorly the reason I quit pirating.

...And why I continue pirating. So I won't have to say "Sorry, but I have no idea what Maya or 3ds Max is, because had no cash to get them. Please employ me so I could get paid for not knowing yet and buy them when I'm paid."
Of course, I'll be 3d modeller in any game company with lines like that in five seconds. Oh yeah.

In matter fact, due my small HD (and wallet), there have been days where AGS in *only* legal piece of software on my CPU.
Arr!

[LGM]

They invented college for situations such as that, InCreator.

And that's exactly why Blender, Wings3D, Maya PLE, Gmax, etc. exist.

[InCreator]

Yes, maybe really. But I really don't think that heaven's doors will be closed because I pirated few programs. And I don't care much, neither even if they will. We live only once. Why make it difficult? After all, I'm a single, worthless human being with low morale and low intelligence.

[LGM]

You said it all

[InCreator]

So there's no problem then!

[TerranRich]

LGM makes a point in that pirating is wrong. If you were the maker of that program...wait...you'd be damn rich. Do what's one more f*cking pirate gonna do? Enough people buy it. Bah! Who cares!

*loads up his pirated copies of 3ds max 5, Poser 5, Bryce 5, Adobe Photoshop, Macromedia Dreamweaver MX, Flash MX 2004 Pro, Adobe Premiere 6.5 Pro, ....... *

[LGM]

With your crap-ass computer you're lucky to get 3DS 5 to load up, nontheless all the other programs at the same time.

Anyways.. Yes, you have all those programs, but do you EVER use them?

[shbaz]

I've watched videos of people modelling with 3DS Max, and they didn't use any different techniques than I do with Blender.

The differences are in the toolkits (Blender doesn't have them because they are so huge in filesize, which is why Blender is only ~6mb, they aren't all that useful anyway) and in the renderers. Blender's rendering system is fast catching up. It doesn't have Sub-Surface-Scattering yet (one of the keys to realism) but Yafray is testing it and Blender can internally render with Yafray.

Blender is a pro tool that is more vastly used by beginners. There are tons of beginner tutorials for it, and a FREE manual on the internet for it. The techniques are the same.. so learn Blender, then in college you'll learn to do the same thing in 3DS Max, with different hotkeys. You're looking to do game models, right? Well I happen to have made a game model in the past few days. Granted, it's for a first-person shooter project with a free game engine, but do you honestly see much difference between that and what people with 3DS Max are pumping out? 70% of the finished result is dependent on the texturing, which is usually done in Photoshop.

Some small gaming firms are seeing Blender as a viable alternative, here is some evidence. They see that 3ds Max costs $3k and does little more than Blender, and now they're recruiting from one of the two best CG forums on the internet.

So you see, disregarding piracy, Blender is still better. Whore.

[LGM]

Thank you shibby

[Gregjazz]

Do I detect a hint of jealousy, LilGryphMaster? Maybe you'd feel better if we send you a copy of it, too? No offense, I'm only kidding.

I've used Blender, and frankly the interface is trash. It's hard to rotate the camera around while you're working, and the features are very limited. Since when can Blender calculate dynamics and simulate cloth and useful things like that? Why is it that people have used 3Dsmax for games and movies (Starcraft, Warcraft 3, etc.) and I've never heard of even that used Blender?

Indeed there are alternative free programs (for example, I use the Gimp 2 instead of Photoshop). But when it comes to advanced 3D rendering, Blender just doesn't cut it. And that is why I own a (legal) copy of 3Dsmax6.

[Peter Thomas]

Pirating is wrong. Full Stop. You can't deny that illegally obtaining software is going to put you on a moral highground. And, whilst it won't close heaven's gates, you'll have to be prepared to take the consequences.

That said, I don't think any number of people saying "it's bad" is going to stop piraters. me included. I have a couple of programs that I (unproudly) must say aren't the most legal pieces of software in the universe. I hardly ever use them, but I keep them for bragging rights. I know I shouldn't, but it's always fun to find a completely arrogant and stuck up computer snob and say "well I have Corel Painter 8 and Photoshop CS and Fruity Loops whatever-the-new-version-is and YOU don't. Sucker".

Pirating is basically the same as shoplifting, except hardly anyone chases you when you do it on the net. Why's that? Because the companies are already so damn rich they couldn't care less. If they REALLY wanted to stop it, they wouldn't release stupid 30-day-trials where you only need a simple keygen to unlock it. They'd upload SPECIALLY made trials WITHOUT a save/load, and with only half the number of available tools...

That's my sad attempt at justification, anyhow...

[Pesty]

Let me tell you all a little story. Maybe it will shut you all up. This would be a good thing.

I am going to college. My parents pay for my tuition out of pocket. Not because they are rich, but because they want to. At this college, which is a very nice college that is mostly a techical school, I took a class that was ALL about 3D Studio Max. It was the only thing we used. I took two semesters of this class.

And I didn't learn a damn thing. The version we were using was an outdated educational version that lacked many of the functions of the professional version. The books we had to use were for an even older, more outdated version of the program. The teacher didn't really teach us, because he had another class at the exact same time (mainly because there were only 4 of us in the 3D Studio Max class). The computers in the particular building don't have internet access, so using online tutorials was out of the question unless I printed them out from home or something. If I were to try and use the program now, I'd have to teach myself how to really use it, and I would probably have to use online tutorials. And, yes, I would have to use a pirated version of it.

The point of the story is that going to college to learn something isn't always the best option. I would've prefered a clean start with a pirated version than what I got at school.

Now, all of you 'OMG you shudn't pirate' people should ease off a bit. Yelling at everyone from your pulpit won't change the fact that they're going to do it. You can state your opinion, of course, but don't shove it down the throat of people who disagree, because it's like walking in quicksand. The harder you push, the quicker you're going to sink.

As for the Blender argument, sure some companies may be using it now, but most still use 3ds. Let's say someone learns Blender's interface and become top 3d modeller supreme! Let's say this person goes into a job interview. "I see you know Blender. We use 3D Studio Max. If you want to work here, you'd better learn the interface." This someone declares, "But I am so used to Blender! And it does just the same stuff as your expensive program!" Let's say someone else comes in to interview with the same company at a later date. "Yes, I do know 3D Studio Max," This elseperson says. "I am well versed in the interface." Now, if you were the company, who would you chose? The person who would have to learn a whole new interface and program, or the person who already knows the interface and program?

The More You Know!

[Renal Shutdown]

I'm with Miss P on this one.  I did a Computer Science A-Level a few years ago.  Only, we were using an early version of basic on outdated Acorns.  If memory serves, there was also a bbc micro in the room.  At a college a few miles away, my friend was learning Java.  It might be better to go to learn it properly, but don't count on every place being able to teach you properly.

And the Blender/3d SM.. i'd start with which every was easiest.  If that means resorting pirating, then shiver me timbers, land ahoy, etc.

Hugs
Iqu

Also, I quit the computing course, universities said it was a complete waste of time.  I went thru crap for a year and a half for nothing.

[shbaz]

I've used Blender, and frankly the interface is trash. It's hard to rotate the camera around while you're working, and the features are very limited. Since when can Blender calculate dynamics and simulate cloth and useful things like that? Why is it that people have used 3Dsmax for games and movies (Starcraft, Warcraft 3, etc.) and I've never heard of even that used Blender?

The interface isn't trash, you just don't know how to use it. There are orbit and pan functions that are controled with (numpad) 4, 8, 2, and 6. The middle mouse button controls free rotate, and if you are properly centered in f/l/r views, it works just fine. Calculating dynamics, simulating cloth, and "useful things like that" are toolkit functions. Those are all texturing problems, no? I simulate cloth using a simple Gimp created texture that I map to normals and displacement. People use 3DS Max (and Maya and others) because of render-to-texture functions (in games) and because it has sub-surface-scattering (in movies).

I didn't learn a damn thing. The version we were using was an outdated educational version that lacked many of the functions of the professional version. The books we had to use were for an even older, more outdated version of the program. The teacher didn't really teach us, because he had another class at the exact same time (mainly because there were only 4 of us in the 3D Studio Max class). The computers in the particular building don't have internet access, so using online tutorials was out of the question unless I printed them out from home or something. If I were to try and use the program now, I'd have to teach myself how to really use it, and I would probably have to use online tutorials. And, yes, I would have to use a pirated version of it.

Sounds like your reputable technical school just wasn't so great to me.. My school had internet access in every building no matter what they taught there and all of the programs were the very latest there were. I would suspect that most "reputable high-quality" schools wouldn't have any situation like that at all, because I've seen results from students of art schools at CGTalk and the results were quite nice. You're wailing on anti-piracy because of a fault in your education.

As for the Blender argument, sure some companies may be using it now, but most still use 3ds. Let's say someone learns Blender's interface and become top 3d modeller supreme! Let's say this person goes into a job interview. "I see you know Blender. We use 3D Studio Max....

Nonsense, I know of Maya users hired in 3DS studios and all other combinations. If the final result is the same and doesn't take any longer, they're not going to give a damn. 3D modelling is the same in every program, with different key combinations and additional/less features. The better artist gets hired, because that's what really matters.

[MrColossal]

by dynamics and simulating cloth he means assigning mass to objects and creating a scene where the objects interact through a physical simulation moving and rolling and bouncing and deforming like cloth