Frank the farmhand -racist

[Moox]

Why rebel when its all you know?

[shbaz]

Why rebel when its all you know?

Uh, so you're not familiar with the concept of teenagers rebelling? Logic and reasoning make people rebel. Sometimes the logic and reasoning isn't so good, but it happens. Also, hate or disagreement make people rebel. For instance, I disagree with my mothers racism. I rebelled by openly and honestly disagreeing with her any time she brought that up, despite the constant, "Respect your mother, no matter what," BS.

It's not all anyone knows. At some point they're going to be presented with an opposing view, you can't say racists never ever hear anyone say that racism is wrong and why. Are you really so naive to think humans have no free will whatsoever? Honestly, I could see coming to that conclusion with the state of America today, but you should know better.

So, what else do you have that you think invalidates free will?

[Moox]

I have a free will, but look at it through my eyes. Im from Boston, I moved to the mountains of north carolina. There is still confedderate flags everywhere in this town. I have lived here 6 years, The kids that where racist in elementry school still are in highschool. Nothing changed around here.

[DGMacphee]

The whole rebelling thing is getting off-track from the original argument. But nevertheless...

My point of view is simple: Frank The Farmhand doesn't need a racial warning for depicting such violence. Why? Because it's depicting it. It's not saying, "Hey, dudes! Please your good klan buddies by setting fire to the nearest non-white person!"

If you put a warning on it, then you might as well put warning on films like O Brother Where Art Thou, American History X, Mississippi Burning, and In The Heat of the Night. And if you slap a warning on In The Heat of The Night, then you're going to have a very pissed-off Sidney Poiter:



Don't fuck with MISTER Tibbs!

In The Heat of The Night was made to be shocking in a period where racial tensions where pretty high. To slap a racial warning on it decreases the message behind it.

Likewise, with Frank The Farmhand. It's a satirical game. The website's plot even says: "A conspiracy involving the american president, religious fanatics, middle-eastern terrorists and some surfdudes. He will travel around the world trying desperately to save both his neck and the world itself." It basically functions the same way as 'O Brother Where Art Thou?'. To slap a warning on it decreases the value of the game. You might as well just play "The VIllage of Happy Nice People Where Nothing Goes Wrong Ever". But trust me, it's a shitty game.

That is why I think if you're so, so offended by the racial depictions, you need to refill your beer-bong.

[MrColossal]

Um... there... is... a warning on all those movies...

[shbaz]

I have a free will, but look at it through my eyes. Im from Boston, I moved to the mountains of north carolina. There is still confedderate flags everywhere in this town. I have lived here 6 years, The kids that where racist in elementry school still are in highschool. Nothing changed around here.

Yes, so naturally this idealism you adapt applies to the whole world because you are in a shithole? You should be telling me you know better because you're from Boston.

I grew up in Porum, Oklahoma. Don't think I didn't see confederate flags flying in front of a trailer house. When I was a baby and my parents moved into that town there was a cross burning on the front lawn of a black family who'd just moved there. When the first black teacher came she was disrespected almost worse than any other teacher that was there. Yet somehow, I grew up in this place never knowing anything else, and I'm not a racist. Imagine that. Common sense and a willingness to be different and unaccepted prevailed.

[DGMacphee]

Um... there... is... a warning on all those movies...

I never saw a racial warning on any of those movies. If you're refering to film classifications (G, PG-13, R, etc) yes they are warnings but there're not warning audiences on the depictions of racism.

For example, American History X was rated R by the MPAA for graphic brutal violence including rape, pervasive language, strong sexuality and nudity.

O Brother was rated PG-13 for some violence and language.

According to IMDB, In The Heat of the Night was "approved" by "suggested for Mature Audiences".

None of the films feature warnings at the start of the films over "racial depictions". As for as I'm aware, the MPAA does not rate films over racial depictions.

The reason I bring this up is because this is what flinnt wants for Frank The Farmhand -- a warning on the racial depicitions in the film.

And such a warning is stupid for reasons we've explained previously in this thread.

[Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens]

If Flinnt is an adult, why doesn't he/she just suck it up instead of whine about it then?  Ignoring things that are offensive rather than whining about them is the more mature solution, in my opinion.  I could be wrong, but it seems that you just wanted something to cry about.

[Nacho]

I've been silently watching this thread and I am taking some conclussions I'd like to expose (maybe opening a new thread? Time will say...).

Note: Some of the points can't be really directly related to this very thread.

I think that newbies see how mature this forums are, and they want to participate, become quickly an actual forum member. They post something with the confidence that we won't over react, but sometimes that happens.

Let me explain myself... When I was in mittens 2003 someone (Helm, I think...) said in some moment "I loved Pleughburgh in spite of their poor graphics... After a short time playing, that graphics fit in the atmosphere". Chrille was there and he was not molested in any way, because he examined the whole sentence and he'd probably agree with the stalement. Even if two oldies don't agree, they tend to avoid fight.

But that does not happen with newbies, I think they don't want to offend us, when they say something bad about an oldie, or a classic AGS game... I think they just want to express their feelings with the same freedom we do. It was like when Phil Roberts said that there were better engines for what he was attempting... He didn't actually sais anything wrong, in fact, he didn't said "AGS is not the best engine", just that it was not the best for his project. But that made us very angry. (That's just an example... For the way he posted, I think that Phil was one of those professional mockers who like to spoil nice forums like this).

IMHO Flyint was trying to start one more of those millions of threads we see here, where we discuss and express our opinions, but it has gone wild too early. My advise is (With the special perspective that the distance gives) is to take the posts made by newbies with a lot of care. The trick is to read them trying to think positively and thinking that they're not justing to mock us. Also, for the newbies, please go slowly, and do not answer with anger if the thread does not go as you expected... With that, you could spoil a nice AGS career before starting.

I think that's all... 

[Blackthorne]

unintelligent remarks bore me.

Sigh.  You must bore yourself, often.

Bt

[MrColossal]

Yes blackthrone... that was totally necessary to post... you're very witty and aren't just adding fuel to any fire...

and by that I mean

was that totally necessary to post? do you just want to add fuel to the fire?

[InCreator]

Well, the game DOES contain certain amount of racism.

Pretty courageous amount, considered to this - IMO idiotic - minefield-like world we have today.

But EVEN if such a minor thing annoyed me, I'd sent an e-mail to game's creator and nicely asked him to place warning into readme.txt file or into intro sequence, instead of trying to warn whole world by myself, risking to spread bad word about the game. Someone OTHER's game.

Morale of story is:

1) Be careful with making your games
2) Don't be a hippy

[Andail]

What's with this sudden hippie ranting?
Since when did hippies become reactionary and prudent?

Sometimes I wish less people could share their two cents in threads like this one

[Blackthorne]

Yes blackthrone... that was totally necessary to post... you're very witty and aren't just adding fuel to any fire...

and by that I mean

was that totally necessary to post? do you just want to add fuel to the fire?

Sorry.  I was being "ironical", with the whole discussion of using "sigh". My bad!

Bt

[Esseb]

Meaning that you actually think it's a fascinating and worthwhile discussion?

[Grundislav]

Well, if anything, I'll bet a whole lot more people have downloaded and played Frank the Farmhand in the past couple of days...

Negative publicity is still publicity.

[veryweirdguy]

The actual creator of the game, one 'fovmester' (I think) doesn't seem to browse the main forums often anyway, & therefore won't have even noticed all the controversy, but Grund is right, remember what happened when there was so much discussion about Flashbax?

And sorry if I sound like I'm repeating said points here:

But it does seem as if a lot of people have missed the point a little. Surely it is a good idea for at least a warning on something like this, so that people who could possibly be offended can steer clear of it.

While I do not find the content offensive, & do not see why anyone would, that doesn't mean it is entirely unoffensive.....if you see what I mean. "Different strokes" for different folks, n all.

* veryweirdguy wonders what that show would teach us on the issue...

[Meowster]

Wow, three pages of anger and confusion.

You guys need to calm down. All of you.

I think the first post was just widely misunderstood.

I can see that Frank the Farmhand certainly deserves a warning of some kind. It's not racist but it depicts scenes of racism in the form of violence. Therefore, in my opinion, it deserves a Violence Warning. On the other hand, that doesn't necessarily mean my opinion is RIGHT. It's certainly arguable. I can certainly see that some people might like to avoid even racist depictions. I for one don't care, but again, I see that other's might. Just because I am comfortable with it doesn't mean everybody is.

Flinnt may have over reacted but so did a lot of other people. I also get the feeling a lot of people are only against Flinnt because that's the direction the bandwagon is rolling...

[Snarky]

I haven't played the game (downloading now), but didn't someone say that it's the job of the player to stop the burning? Does that mean that the kid is not in fact burned on the stake, and the game only shows the threat of it?

If that's right, I don't see how there's any call for a warning at all. I can understand why people would want a warning for something that is offensive, but not for the depiction of something that is offensive. If I created a story about a guy who swindles old grannies, refuses to pay child support, and smokes in public places, would it require a "WARNING: This game contains scenes of bastardry" label?

[Pumaman]

Actually, thinking about it I have to say "WARNING" is a bit strong, so I've changed it to "NOTE".