Stupid, stupid RPG Maker...

[Kinoko]

I'm not following the disussion but I'm happy the words 'Stupid, stupid RPG Maker' are still visible somewhere on the internet.

(*ahem* Re: Tilesets, people who don't wanna put the time in to make their own graphics shouldn't be making RPGs and posting them on the net)

[Theme]

There are some really good games made with rpgmaker, with ripped graphics tho.
The recent version of rpgmaker you can script with Ruby and change a lot of things

But I still think AGS is a lot better than rpgmaker

o/

[modgeulator]

(*ahem* Re: Tilesets, people who don't wanna put the time in to make their own graphics shouldn't be making RPGs and posting them on the net)

Why the hell can't they do whatever they want?

[Kinoko]

Cause I say so?

[modgeulator]

Not everybody can draw you realise? Why should they be banned from creating games? There are people that make AGS games using ripped graphics too, should they also not be made and posted?

[Kinoko]

No. It's a new law I invented.

Seriously, don't take me so...uh, seriously. I exaggerate my opinions. But one of the things that soured me on the RPG making community is that 99% of people just make shitty games with the standard/ripped graphics. That and the fact that RPG Maker is such an annoying program (compared to AGS, anyway) just killed my interest in amateur RPGs.

[SSH]

modge, Kinoko is a female geek. Male geeks are powerless to resist her commands.

[Kinoko]

Damn straight. Everybody strip and do the chicken dance, now!

[SSH]

Actually, it's one of the great things about the AGS community that most people only make at most one rubbish game with ripped sprites before they either leave or start making good games. Sometimes someone crops up out fo the blue with a totally cool game as their first, too.... not thinking of any mushrooms in particular 

[Nikolas]

mushrooms? Ah you're talking about Vince XII here. Yes you're right!

[modgeulator]

The best thing I see here is that you don't normally see other people's games being referred to as "rubbish," that would seem to be the main difference between here and miserable RPGMaker communities. I wonder if that has some contributing influence to people feeling inspired to make decent games with AGS?

[Kinoko]

Well, I mean that's my point. The AGS community is amazing! People really try and of course there are a lot of "crappy" games but people still keep getting better. The ratio of games using custom graphics (no matter how "bad") to ripped graphics ... well, there's a big difference. When I go to RPG Maker communities, every single game is a BIG idea (hence, never ever gets finished) using ripped/default graphics... the fact that 99% of people are like that puts me right off.

Lets not all remember Cirque too fondly either. I cringe when I go back and look at that game. I'll admit it was better than a lot of peoples' first games but still.

[Barbarian]

I think using "ripped" graphics is not neccesairly a bad thing if put to good use as to fit in with the style / mood / setting of the game project.

Ã,  Ã, Or sometimes in going for a more "realistic" or "3D-ish" style of graphics, I have about zero talent and skills in that area, so I then turn to "borrowing" some cool looking graphics that might fit into a game I have in mind.Ã,  The times I have borrowed graphics from other sources to use in my own games, 99% of the time I end up re-editing the graphics anyways to make them useable.Ã,  I know that it's not "original", and I may be "bending some rules" in this regards, but when doing this as a hobby, for free, I don't think too many people really mind this if they get some enjoyment out of my projects.

I'd love to be able to have the time and talent to draw tons of great looking graphics, and I do play around with my drawing skills in hopes to improve on it, and I do have plans and projects in the works that will feature all original art.
Ã,  But sometimes I envision some great ideas that can be implemented by using already existing graphics available, and if done right I think can still make for a great gaming experience.Ã,  As most of us game-makers here in the AGS community already knows, especially those of us lacking talent and skills in drawing original art and graphics, it can be really hard to find a decent artist willing to commit to team up with you for a project, especially if it's a large project. Which I'm not blaming anyone, I mean we all have our own commitments, responsibilties and lives to live outside of making up free adventure games.Ã,  Myself, I've had to turn down some people asking me for help on their projects too, as I was too busy with other things at the time.

I can understand Kinoko's points, and I agree that "borrowing" art/graphics from other sources is generally frowned upon in the game-making community. And like she mentioned, about 99% of RPG community amateur game-makers tend to use ripped graphics, which can become quite unoriginal, and seeming to just be a re-hash of the same thing done again and agian and agian...

But then, as a hobbiest amateur Adventure game-maker like myself lacking artistic talents when it comes to drawing up great looking graphics, I think that if approched the right way, a project can still turn out great even using "ripped" graphics.

People keep saying a good adventure game is not so much about the "graphics", but rather adventure game fans tend to perhaps more appreciate a well thought out story, interesting characters and puzzles over fancy graphics.Ã,  Though that being said, I think good looking art/graphics (as well as music and sounds) certainly does add to the overall appeal of an adventure game.

So, I guess there's positives and negatives about using ripped art/graphics.
Ã,  Ã, Rock on.Ã,  :)Ã,  (Does the naked chicken dance)Ã, 

[Alynn]

I own a licenced copy of RMXP (the newest version) many of the problems she describes are issues with the older engines.

While the old interfaces still exist in XP the core of the thing is ruby scripting, so you can go in and edit and change whatever you want, in fact you can forgo the front end completely and do the whole thing in ruby...

Also, the older verisons expect things to be in certain folders and so on and so forth, which is true with XP, however you can package the whole game together (much like AGS does). How the older versions worked is it looked for the file, if it was an RTP file (run time package, think of it as default graphics) it would look for the default rtp folder, if that folder didn't exist, it would throw an error... if it was a game file (imported into the game) and it wasn't there, or named wrong (because of people changing the file name but not in the engine) it would throw an error.

It also comes from the "illegal" nature of 95 2k and 2k3, these were never released in english, others hacked it and translated it, others wanted to get more maps, or add some other functionality to the program so they hacked it again to gain more variables or switches (booleans).

On top of it for some reason the community is very wary of each other, on top of trying to cut down on bandwith usage of their free sites (many use geosh*tties) they don't include the run time executable, for viruses and to make the download smaller.

Another advantage of XP is the higher resolution, and no longer are you limited to 256 colors (although technically it was 256 colors per graphics sheet, you could have millions of colors).

The only one I use now is RMXP, Enterbrain finally translated it into english, and you can get it at download.com... it is reasonably priced at 60 USD. The only reason I haven't done anything with the program is I haven't had time to learn Ruby.

Being a veteran of that scene and one step away from admin on a RM website, I have a good knowledge of the whole thing...

Hope that was informitive

[Afflict]

(*ahem* Re: Tilesets, people who don't wanna put the time in to make their own graphics shouldn't be making RPGs and posting them on the net)

Well in that case the world of evolution should stop, writers are not allowed publishing books, cause they dont do that on their own... Oh and well movies should not happen cause the "writers of the story dont create their own graphics?

Dont know Konoko not everybody has multiple skills and are skilled in a main category, myself I am a writer part time... also love graphics and puzzles. The point being that even though I can draw a little my writing is way better. So should I not find someone that proffesionalizes in art?

[ebby]

I guess as testament to how crap that program is, you just need to look at the games people make with it and the culture that surrounds it. I swear, if I ever met anyone who made a game with all their own graphics and sounds and programming, I'd turn into a penguin. That whole RPGM culture is stupid, all praising each other for making a pretty looking demo made up of ripped graphics and pre-made chipsets. 75% of the games are Pokemon or Final Fantasy rip offs. ARGH!!!

Is it that they're lazy or it just doesn't occur to them to actually make their own game with their own material? I don't know... I've had it. I've reached the end of my patience.

eh, that char in cirque looks suspiciously a lot like guybrush?
and why does the bear look like such a different style than other character sprites in the game, which already look different to other character sprites in the same game?
and why does all the houses in town look completely different than the houses outside?
are u just inconsistent?


is kiniko hot? else i just dont get al these people making her seem like the goddess of games? so many people idd rather have interviewed.

[modgeulator]

is kiniko hot? else i just dont get al these people making her seem like the goddess of games? so many people idd rather have interviewed.

The big problem I've always found with this whole RPG Maker scene is that it's full of idiots like ebby. I always liked the RPG Maker programs, hated the community that surrounds it. Now that there's a legit version out there in English I hope things will improve.

[Kinoko]

Afflict, settle. I've already explained that I was purposely being an ass and exaggerating my opinion. That, plus I didn't mean people shoudn't work in teams. I'm not even referring to the adventure gaming community here. Trust me, the flavour in the RPG making communities is completely different. Here, if people do use ripped graphics, they either never finish and stop making games, or they continue to improve and put more effort into them. In that community, 99% of the games are simply a bit of scripting and story added to ripped or custom graphics. It's suffocating that so few people even try to make new things.

ebby: I'm not even going to dignify that with an answer until you learn how to type. Anyone here that knows me knows what my "deal" with that game was. I'm hardly a "goddess" here anyway (that's Yuf!), someone was just... once again... exaggerating in the spirit of playing around.

I am pretty darn hot though.

[2ma2]

The main issue about why ripped graphics is a sore thumb is in the eys of 2 viewers.

1: artistic sobs and
2: people who recognize the sprites

I often find myself in the first category in which a shiver is sent down my spine every time someone use obviously ripped sprites and or "try for a 3d-ish looking game". This because graphics are not there to be slick, they are there to enhance the writing. Less is more, always. Why does Pleurghburg rock so hard? Not because of it's ripped sprites, nor because of how gorgeous they are. No quite the opposite, it's AGI quality baby, and it's all homegrown. Yeah!

The second category is when a specific sprite is used and someone allready has a relationship to it. Like someone using the hero-sprites from Chrono Trigger, and it usually makes me want to delete and tear out my eyes in sorrow. Or we see the same character portrait used for the 30th time, but for another character in which the SLP's are turned in to icons rather than actual characters, completely annihilating all immersion ("Oh this is a sad, shy healer.. oh well..")

Yes, someone may think and regard themselfs as much better writers than artists, but you must still realise that your work is different from everyone elses because it's yours! You are unique, and so is your styles. Ripping means inconsistency, and takes away from the overall feel of a game. It is like making a spartan room design, then putting a big LNES FALARE!!11! all over it to make it look better.

It does not.

[SSH]

ebby: I'm not even going to dignify that with an answer until you learn how to type. Anyone here that knows me knows what my "deal" with that game was. I'm hardly a "goddess" here anyway (that's Yuf!), someone was just... once again... exaggerating in the spirit of playing around.

You don't realise that ebby IS Yufster